Driveshaft sleeve install

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
Dave Young
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: David
Last Name: Young
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 Touring, 26 RPU, 24 Coupe, 26 Speedster, 28 Chandler, 29 Chandler, 29 A
Location: Mays Landing, Nj

Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by Dave Young » Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:42 pm

I’m open to some tips about installing a new sleeve onto a driveshaft. So far, it kinda sucks. I got the old one off by heating it with a torch and beating it free with a brass shaft. I put the new one in a toaster oven set at 450 for about 20 minutes and proceeded to try to install it, with the key way properly aligned. It pounded on about an inch on and then stopped hard. I stopped there and called it a day. I plan on heating it lightly tomorrow and pounding on it. Any tips?


Stephen_heatherly
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:03 pm
First Name: Stephen
Last Name: Heatherly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 coupe and 23 Runabout
Location: St. Louis MO

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by Stephen_heatherly » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:09 pm

Use the fun projects bearing instead. It's much better than stock.

Stephen


Philip
Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:09 pm
First Name: Philip
Last Name: Thompson
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 touring
Location: Graham NC

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by Philip » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:13 pm

I second that do the modern pinion bearing


Moxie26
Posts: 1315
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:20 pm
First Name: Robert
Last Name: Jablonski
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Runabout
Location: New Jersey
MTFCA Number: 407
MTFCA Life Member: YES
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by Moxie26 » Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:28 pm

Dave.... I would remove sleeve. possibly getting a new sleeve in case of questionable use of removed sleeve. Check out Ford spec's on inside diameter of sleeve and diameter of drive shaft against parts you have. inside of sleeve may have to be reamed according to Ford specs. I went thru the same problem , solved by using local machine shop.

Bob J.


Dropacent
Posts: 3384
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:39 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Morsher
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925TT, 1926 Martin-Parry bodied wagon, 1927 mercury bodied speedster
Location: Norwalk Ohio

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by Dropacent » Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:42 pm

The sleeve cannot be reamed. Possibly honed but easiest to take material off the driveshaft. And yes, a machine shop is the best route if you aren’t up to checking clearances. You will likely split it if you just try and force it on.


TrentB
Posts: 171
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:19 am
First Name: Trent
Last Name: Boggess
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by TrentB » Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:08 am

Stevens made a sleeve driver for the driveshaft roller bearing sleeve. It slipped over the sleeve and the sleeve was used to guide the sleeve as it was driven on.

Here are some pictures of an original Stevens driveshaft sleeve driver.

Respectfully Submitted,

Trent Boggess
Attachments
7623A304-90B2-47E8-831D-D802FFCB5790.jpeg
9F13BD62-23B4-4CD0-B4FC-33E4276EE4D1.jpeg

User avatar

TRDxB2
Posts: 5412
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:56 pm
First Name: Frank
Last Name: Brandi
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Speedster (1919 w 1926)
Location: Moline IL
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by TRDxB2 » Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:05 am

The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger


Topic author
Dave Young
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: David
Last Name: Young
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 Touring, 26 RPU, 24 Coupe, 26 Speedster, 28 Chandler, 29 Chandler, 29 A
Location: Mays Landing, Nj

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by Dave Young » Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:02 am

I’ve used the Modern Pinion bearing kit multiple times in the past but, given the difficulty of getting parts right now, decided to go stock. Taking it to a machine shop is an option. I came up with the idea of fabricating a horizontal press on an I-beam with a fixture to hold the mid-section of the shaft from bending. Now, seeing the comment about the new sleeve possibly splitting if I force it on has me reconsidering that. I did not bother mic-ing the shaft and new sleeve before starting. Big regerts.


Topic author
Dave Young
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: David
Last Name: Young
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 Touring, 26 RPU, 24 Coupe, 26 Speedster, 28 Chandler, 29 Chandler, 29 A
Location: Mays Landing, Nj

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by Dave Young » Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:16 am

Who might have the modern pinion bearing kit in stock?


John kuehn
Posts: 3907
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:00 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Kuehn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 19 Roadster, 21 Touring, 24 Coupe
Location: Texas
MTFCA Number: 28924

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by John kuehn » Tue Feb 01, 2022 8:55 am

If you heat the sleeve up again have your hammer or driver ready and try again. I did one that way once and it finally went on but you have to do it quick I found.
Next time it will be the Modern bearing kit. I’ve used two of those and it’s a big improvement. It’s one T upgrade that really works. I hope they are still being made!

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 3299
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Board Member Since: 2000
Contact:

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by DanTreace » Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:31 am

Who might have the modern pinion bearing kit in stock?
Got a modern pinion (closed spool) from Birdhaven (1-800-337-6977) in one week, rec'd it in late Dec and installed Jan 10. They make them up, and in stock, only had to send a core for $50 credit, they sent the new one before my core made it there. Comes complete with copy of the original Fun Project instructions too!


Chaffin's has them, but last call in Dec. was informed of long delay from machine shop...as the shops around Dave are all full with larger jobs than Model T stuff. :cry:



IMG_0142.jpeg
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford

User avatar

Mark Chaffin
Posts: 3327
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:11 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Chaffin
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Speedster, 1927 Lake Roadster
Location: Lake Elsinore
MTFCA Number: 31705
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by Mark Chaffin » Tue Feb 01, 2022 9:58 am

We have open spool units on the shelf and available. Give Dave a call (951) 735-4791


RGould1910
Posts: 975
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:16 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Gould
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 touring, 1912 roadster , 1927 roadster
Location: Folsom, CA

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by RGould1910 » Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:00 am

I take a little off the driveshaft using a lathe, files and sandpaper so there is about half a thou interference fit. Keeping it in the lathe, I pack the end of the ds with ice and heat the sleeve in an oven. I keep the ds in the lathe for ease in installation. You have to move fast when installing the sleeve with welding gloves because it cools and shrinks quickly.
To make placement easier I put a vise grip on the ds so the sleeve fits about an eighth inch short. Final placement is accomplished by tightening the pinion without the key. I also mark the pieces with a felt pen to keep the woodruff key slot aligned. That's the hardest part. If I screw up I remove the sleeve with a grinder and try again with another sleeve. Luckily I've only screwed up once.
Most of this I've learned from Glen Chaffin.

User avatar

Humblej
Posts: 1690
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:23 pm
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Humble
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Canadian built coupe, 1924 TT C-cab, survivor 1924 roadster
Location: Charlevoix, Mi
MTFCA Number: 28034
Board Member Since: 2006

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by Humblej » Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:36 am

Dave, They go on easier than they come off. It is kind of a one shot deal, get it right or start over with sleeve number 2. The trick is to get the key slot lined up, or again, start over with another sleeve. I marked the sleeve opposite the slot and marked the shaft in line with the key slot so I could correctly orient the new sleeve and track its progress as it goes on. I was able to do it on the first try with one sleeve. Use a deep socket and a really large hammer as a driver, like a 5 lb hammer, and secure the shaft so it is solid like a rock. I do not remember if I heated the sleeve prior to installation, I had to heat it to remove the old one. Heating should help, I would suggest putting the sleeve in the oven and bake at 400 degrees for half an hour.


Dropacent
Posts: 3384
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:39 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Morsher
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925TT, 1926 Martin-Parry bodied wagon, 1927 mercury bodied speedster
Location: Norwalk Ohio

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by Dropacent » Tue Feb 01, 2022 1:25 pm

It’s always easy to just say, “use the fun projects kit” even though that wasn’t the original inquiry. AND , sometimes they aren’t easy to get. I’ve used them and they are nice, but I did get one with a bad Chinese bearing in it, and had to return it. If you are fortunate to be able to find the original FORD parts, that original method will likely outlast most any T drivers, and it will make original smith sleep better at night. I’m about to do my last one with all ford parts and I’m looking forward to it. It was actually easier to find Ford parts than the modern bearing kit when I was gathering parts and I ended up spending half as much!


rickd
Posts: 401
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:56 pm
First Name: Rick
Last Name: Duquette
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1913 Touring, 1914 Touring, 1925 Touring, 1927 PU, 1955 T Bird, 69 Shelby GT 350
Location: Grand Forks, North Dakota
MTFCA Number: 21848
MTFCI Number: 22173
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by rickd » Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:09 pm

One more comment on the driveshaft sleeve. For any newbies doing this and for guys like me who tend to forget things the Glen Chaffin book on front and rear axles is a great resource. Pages 16-19 has a lot of good info on drive shafts and installing sleeves and thrust bearings. p.s.-after wrestling with a few sleeves my preferred removal method is grinding a groove in the sleeve just short of hitting the shaft and splitting the sleeve. Works great!


speedytinc
Posts: 3840
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
MTFCA Number: 14383
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by speedytinc » Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:47 pm

Dave Young wrote:
Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:42 pm
I’m open to some tips about installing a new sleeve onto a driveshaft. So far, it kinda sucks. I got the old one off by heating it with a torch and beating it free with a brass shaft. I put the new one in a toaster oven set at 450 for about 20 minutes and proceeded to try to install it, with the key way properly aligned. It pounded on about an inch on and then stopped hard. I stopped there and called it a day. I plan on heating it lightly tomorrow and pounding on it. Any tips?
I have done this operation scores of times. In fact, I currently have 4 to do in the near future. My method & hints.
You need a usable puller. I am fortunate to have the heavy Stevens unit. Works every time. I NEVER have used heat or cut off a sleeve. I have never heated of froze parts to remove or install. Never needed to.
Without the correct tool, possibly a split shaft collar could be used with a gear puller. I do like the idea of a press. Depends on your equipment availability. Some times it takes an 18" breaker bar to get the pull started. I protect the threads with the nut & a penny. Look around the key way for high burs & remove before pulling.

Pre-installation: Lap shaft taper & pinion gear. Dont forget the thrust bearing pack. Use best washer side to sleeve edge.

Installation: Measure sleeve & shaft. Some sleeves are tighter than others. Repo's!. I.D does vary. but can be an advantage if the shaft has a little wear. (A $10 caliper from Harbour freight is surprisingly accurate. EVERYONE should have as a minimum.) Debur shaft & inside sleeve. Emery cloth on a dowel, in a drill makes a cheap hone. Emery cloth shaft smooth. Mark a follow line on the shaft & sleeve. As you install, the sleeve can be turned as you strike to get that key slot lined up. No room for error. If you miss, pull off some & reinstall with a little turn force as you strike.

Try getting the sleeve down. I use a 3# copper hammer. If it gets too tight(stops moving), remove the sleeve & take down the shaft or sleeve. (judgement required) Emery cloth by hand if you dont have a lathe, shoe shine style. Sleeve is a press fit & must be tight. Adjusting the sleeve size is preferred over a great shaft. The shaft didnt get larger. You have a excellent shaft. I use an old sleeve as a drive to clear the taper & threads of the shaft for that last 1". Stop just before in home position. Use the gear & nut W/O the key to get it home.
When pinion nut is @ full torque & the cotter pin hole is not lined up, I use an impact wrench for the line up. Never back up. Must be very tight.

I dont recall the torque chart #'s. A 12-18" breaker bar works. Usually tighten until the shaft slips in the aluminum soft jaws & finish with the impact.


Topic author
Dave Young
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: David
Last Name: Young
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 Touring, 26 RPU, 24 Coupe, 26 Speedster, 28 Chandler, 29 Chandler, 29 A
Location: Mays Landing, Nj

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by Dave Young » Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:14 pm

Great advice from all. Thank you. I wound up cutting slots, with a cutoff wheel, in that new stuck sleeve and heated it quickly before beating it off of the shaft. I don't have a lathe but do have a power pipe-threading machine. I chucked the shaft in that and spun it while working emery cloth over it to knock off the marks from my failed attempt. A new sleeve is on order from Langs and when that arrives, I'll spend the time that I should have spent yesterday measuring both the shaft and the sleeve. I feel confident that with the power vise spinning the shaft and some careful file/emery work that I can get the two parts to mate with an appropriate interference fit. Definitely one of the more non user friendly tasks


speedytinc
Posts: 3840
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
MTFCA Number: 14383
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by speedytinc » Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:22 pm

Dave Young wrote:
Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:14 pm
Great advice from all. Thank you. I wound up cutting slots, with a cutoff wheel, in that new stuck sleeve and heated it quickly before beating it off of the shaft. I don't have a lathe but do have a power pipe-threading machine. I chucked the shaft in that and spun it while working emery cloth over it to knock off the marks from my failed attempt. A new sleeve is on order from Langs and when that arrives, I'll spend the time that I should have spent yesterday measuring both the shaft and the sleeve. I feel confident that with the power vise spinning the shaft and some careful file/emery work that I can get the two parts to mate with an appropriate interference fit. Definitely one of the more non user friendly tasks
It is a dealer service type job. Not a backyard bailing wire fix. Need a puller.
It would help if replacement parts were to Ford spec. Good luck. You got now.


Topic author
Dave Young
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: David
Last Name: Young
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 Touring, 26 RPU, 24 Coupe, 26 Speedster, 28 Chandler, 29 Chandler, 29 A
Location: Mays Landing, Nj

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by Dave Young » Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:17 am

Just whipped up this sleeve installation tool to help me put the new one onto the shaft when it arrives. It has an old sleeve welded to the inside of the guide tube. The inner leading edge of the old one is relieved. The new sleeve sits in the tool with a half inch exposed in order to watch the guide lines. Also, here's a picture of my "lathe" to dress the shaft surface with.
20220202_110237.jpg
20220202_111100.jpg
20220202_110302.jpg
20220202_110237.jpg

User avatar

Sean Butler
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:22 pm
First Name: Sean
Last Name: Butler
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Touring
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
MTFCA Number: 31557

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by Sean Butler » Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:44 pm

John at SpeddyT: I want that puller back! Just kidding. Glad you're putting it to good use!
Sean Butler
Huntington Beach, CA

User avatar

Sean Butler
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:22 pm
First Name: Sean
Last Name: Butler
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Touring
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
MTFCA Number: 31557

Re: Driveshaft sleeve install

Post by Sean Butler » Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:52 pm

And, John is correct. The Stevens puller is awesome. Obviously we all can't come up with one. The grinding and splitting method works well. But, always keep your eye out. You'll end up with new friends! :o
Sean Butler
Huntington Beach, CA

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic