MTFCA Forum

Posted: **Wed Feb 23, 2022 10:03 am**

I have it on good advice to install the oil screen to help with additional filtration on my car. I'll be doing my first oil change soon (hopefully it has had others since 1923, but this is the first one on my watch). For the screen, can I install that after I've done the oil change? From what I can tell, it installs from the top, so I don't need to drop anything from the bottom of the motor.

It's also possible that my car already has this screen installed. I've somewhat muddled the question, so this is basically what I want to know:

Can I go ahead with the oil change and deal with the screen issue later? Or will it be necessary to drain the oil again in order to install the screen? I am very new to model T engines. Thanks for any thoughts. Gerrit

This is the part I'm referring to: https://www.modeltford.com/item/3378OS.aspx

Posted: **Wed Feb 23, 2022 10:17 am**

The screen can be added after you change the oil. Simply remove the trans cover (6 screws), the screen would be directly below the cover.

I suggest change the oil, check for a screen and either clean it or order one if there isn't one in the transmission. There is a good chance it has one, because most driven model t's have one.

Art Mirtes

Posted: **Wed Feb 23, 2022 10:37 am**

I would drain the oil level down to the lower test cock, then I'd add a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil. Then I would run the engine until hot, preferabley by driving the car ten miles or so. If driving is not an option, I'd run the engine at about 1200 RPM for ten or 15 minutes, then drain the oil into a clean pan and remove the transmission access plate, being careful not to drop the screws or gasket fragments into the transmission, and if a screen is present, remove and clean it. I would wash the screen in clean solvent in a clean pan, and inspect any debris that washes out. I'd also examine the drained oil and pan for debris. If no screen is present, replace the cover and gasket and add fresh oil. I'd use something like WalMart's 10-30 conventional oil for a first oil change. The oil may become dirty very quickly if the engine has deposits of goo in it. If that develops, change the oil again. If no screen is present, I'd order one along with gaskets and install it at the first opportunity. You do not need to drain the oil to inspect, install, or clean the screen. BE VERY CAREFUL NOT TO DROP ANYTHING INTO THE TRANSMISSION WHILE REMOVING OR REPLACING THE COVER OR SCREEN!

Posted: **Wed Feb 23, 2022 12:56 pm**

Gerrit,

I would first look to see if there was a screen. If none is present, install a new one. Then do the oil change. If you choose to drop the oil pan, be aware of the correct procedure so you can re-install it correctly. It is not just a matter of removing the screws, installing a gasket, and replacing the screws.

Posted: **Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:04 pm**

BE VERY CAREFUL NOT TO DROP ANYTHING INTO THE TRANSMISSION WHILE REMOVING OR REPLACING THE COVER OR SCREEN!

That should be said like this: BE VERY CAREFUL NOT TO DROP ANYTHING INTO THE TRANSMISSION WHILE REMOVING OR REPLACING THE COVER OR SCREEN!!!

It's very inconvenient when a foreign object falls into the transmission. Sometimes it turns out to be EXTREMELY inconvenient.

You will be removing and replacing the cover to clean the screen many times. You can scrape off the remains of the old gasket and install a new one many times, or you can do it once.

1 Clean the mating surfaces (lid and hogshead) of oil and old gasket remains.
2 Smear one side of the new gasket with Ultra Black and stick it on the bottom of the lid with the holes lined up.
3 Smear the bottom (down side) of the gasket with Ultra Black.
4 Smear general purpose grease on top of the hogshead where it will contact the gasket.
5 Install the lid, tightening the screws enough to flatten the sealant against the hogshead but not fully tight.
6 After the sealant has had time to set up, tighten the screws.

You have made a permanent reusable gasket. Whenever you remove and replace the lid, just apply new grease to the hogshead. If you are using a transmission screen (you should), you can use two gaskets and follow this procedure to make permanent gaskets on both the bottom of the screen and the lid. Simply apply fresh grease to the top of the hogshead and the top of the screen each time.

Before removing the lid I put in a couple of guide studs (⁵⁄₁₆" cap screws with the heads cut off) that make it easy to get the lid on straight and hold it in place while I put in the screws. Putting them in before removing the lid assures that they won't fall into the transmission.

Posted: **Wed Feb 23, 2022 5:24 pm**

Be sure to remove the key from the ignition switch before removing the trans cover. They have been known to drop in while working in that area.

Arr Mirtes

Posted: **Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:00 pm**

YES and YES!!!
Remove the key and any loose bolt, screw or whatever when you open up the transmission!

If you haven’t had a lot of experience around T’s that’s a must area to be careful around for a new guy or the experienced!

Good luck with the oil screen and it’s probably the best after market item that Ford should have put in at the factory.

Posted: **Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:07 pm**

Here are some pictures to help ou see it fit into the transmission housing. Some suggest making the holes larger other not. Most all recommend strapping down the magnet, not sure where it would go even if if broke up but tht might be one a earlier design. This is a good pro/con like http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1437749776
The only difference in doing it before or after changing you oil is what is in the oil before you added it. AND be careful not to drop anything into the transmission, so move all screws, nuts washers, keys etc well away . If you drop something in, you must remove it before you can drive again.
This link shows the oil flow without the screen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqW1g0x ... hw&index=1
This video shows side by side comparisons of modified vs stock screen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXimnKo ... hw&index=6 The holes on t he upper part of filter are over the transmission bands and that's where the oil needs to flow. The buildup in the stock version causes this as its the path of least resistance for the oil to flow other vs the screen. While the modified version appears to allow oil to flow into the holes it is likely less

Posted: **Wed Feb 23, 2022 6:39 pm**

After watching the 2nd video showing the amount of oil collecting in the in the oil screen, it might be worth tapping a line from the lower section of the cover plate to the front of the engine pan... a combination of the old faithful and Texas T oiling systems.
Bill

Posted: **Wed Feb 23, 2022 7:10 pm**

Thanks for all the suggestions and tips. I especially like the warnings about dropping something into the transmission as that's a typical thing that would happen even though I try to be ultra-careful. I'll set the keys aside in a safe place. I may try the permanent gasket idea as well, thanks for the detailed instructions.

I'll check back when I've done the oil change and screen and give a status update. This is a great forum, lots of useful information and experience here. Very appreciative. Gerrit

Posted: **Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:41 pm**

Thought I'd check in this evening with a status update. My '23 Touring does have an oil screen already installed. I cleaned it, which just involved wiping it down with a rag and re-installed. My friend who was helping me suggested putting a good magnet in the screen to pick up any stray metal fragments. Since any magnets I have lying around fall into the "not good" category, I'll add that to my shopping list.

We also checked the rear end oil level and it was very low. I added about half a bottle that just arrived from Lang's along with some other parts. I'll monitor for leaks, have a clean container under the rear.

Something was going on with the linkage between the high-low pedal and transmission. The little part that has a clevis on one end and then a 90 degree bend at the transmission end was well-worn so I ordered that as well. They sell the individual pieces that make up the linkage, so I guess if you want to save a whopping five bucks you can just order the part that looks more worn out and wait for the other part to wear out farther down the road. I bought the whole thing, it's secured with cotter pins at both ends. I just hope there isn't some strange adjustment I should be aware of when installing. Right now I have the pedal at the highest point of travel and that's how I'm installing the linkage.

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions.

Gerrit

Posted: **Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:09 am**

Good instructions from Model T Ford Fix. Also a good reference for other solutions
https://modeltfordfix.com/adjusting-the ... nd-clutch/

Posted: **Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:03 am**

Frank,

Thanks for the link, very helpful. I may hold off on any further adjustments until I have my friend here who is much better-acquainted with this whole setup. He also has a Touring car like mine, but a later model. In the meantime, I'll polish the fenders

Gerrit

Posted: **Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:30 am**

5 WoodenWheels wrote: ↑
Sun Mar 06, 2022 11:41 pm
Thought I'd check in this evening with a status update. My '23 Touring does have an oil screen already installed. I cleaned it, which just involved wiping it down with a rag and re-installed. My friend who was helping me suggested putting a good magnet in the screen to pick up any stray metal fragments. Since any magnets I have lying around fall into the "not good" category, I'll add that to my shopping list.

We also checked the rear end oil level and it was very low. I added about half a bottle that just arrived from Lang's along with some other parts. I'll monitor for leaks, have a clean container under the rear.

Something was going on with the linkage between the high-low pedal and transmission. The little part that has a clevis on one end and then a 90 degree bend at the transmission end was well-worn so I ordered that as well. They sell the individual pieces that make up the linkage, so I guess if you want to save a whopping five bucks you can just order the part that looks more worn out and wait for the other part to wear out farther down the road. I bought the whole thing, it's secured with cotter pins at both ends. I just hope there isn't some strange adjustment I should be aware of when installing. Right now I have the pedal at the highest point of travel and that's how I'm installing the linkage.

Thanks again for all the help and suggestions.

Gerrit

There is a critical adjustment. If you dont have it already, order the T1 service manual. No T owner should be without it.

Posted: **Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:26 am**

Concerning the oil level in the rear axle: I believe there are 2 different ways that it needs to be checked, depending on the year model of the axle. Earlier axles had the oil fill plug located higher on the housing, and on those axles, the correct full level is an inch or so BELOW the plug opening. On the later axles, the plug hole is located lower on the housing and on those axles, the correct level is at the bottom of the plug hole. Any checks should be made with the car on a surface that is level, both front to rear and side to side. Overfilling the axle will result in oil leaking out onto the emergency brakes.

Posted: **Mon Mar 07, 2022 10:12 pm**

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑
Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:26 am
Concerning the oil level in the rear axle: I believe there are 2 different ways that it needs to be checked, depending on the year model of the axle. Earlier axles had the oil fill plug located higher on the housing, and on those axles, the correct full level is an inch or so BELOW the plug opening. On the later axles, the plug hole is located lower on the housing and on those axles, the correct level is at the bottom of the plug hole. Any checks should be made with the car on a surface that is level, both front to rear and side to side. Overfilling the axle will result in oil leaking out onto the emergency brakes.

Pat,

Thanks, I have filled to where I would normally fill in a somewhat modern car--meaning to the point where the oil is level with the hole. From what you said, that means it's overfilled by quite a bit. The fun never ends.

The good thing is that I haven't driven the car, but I imagine I'd better take some oil out before the brakes get soaked. I've run the question by some of the knowledgeable club members as well. Thanks for the information.

Gerrit

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 10:58 am**

Determine which type axle housing you have.

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:33 am**

If your car is a 1923 and has the original rear axle, you should be fine. It is easy to tell which kind you have. The earlier ones are half way up the right side of the housing. The later ones are about an inch below half way. So if you look right toward the axle from the back of the car, the opening should be lower on the housing.
Norm

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 12:24 pm**

On the subject of the rear end oil level, this is what I have. I think I'm ok. You'll notice it's also a Ruckstell rear, very pleased with that. Thanks for all the information.

Gerrit

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 12:28 pm**

Caution!!!! The Ruxtell axle requires a different grade of lubricant than the Ford stock axles. Oil capacity and oil level checking may also be different. Get good information before proceeding.

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 12:47 pm**

For those who are wondering, the lowered filler hole begins with 1919. From 1919-1927, fill to the hole. The Ruckstell book says oil level is the same as for the stock rear axle: 1919-1927 fill to the hole; before 1919, ½" below the hole. Use 90W or 140W, not grease or 600W.

It's good to have the books and use them.

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:38 pm**

Gerrit - I would install a rare Earth magnet and never worry about it coming loose. You can google K&N magnetics. Don't go too big or you will never get it off the oil screen. If you have never used one of these magnets you will be amazed at how powerful they are. Buy the highest grade that they carry (the higher the number the higher the temperature they will handle).

To give you an idea of the magnet's strength, I bought a few 3/8" discs to try to find an imbalance in a flywheel (not a T) they would remain in place at 1,200 RPM. I did not need to go higher.

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:58 pm**

John Codman wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:38 pm
Gerrit - I would install a rare Earth magnet and never worry about it coming loose. You can google K&N magnetics. Don't go too big or you will never get it off the oil screen. If you have never used one of these magnets you will be amazed at how powerful they are. Buy the highest grade that they carry (the higher the number the higher the temperature they will handle).

To give you an idea of the magnet's strength, I bought a few 3/8" discs to try to find an imbalance in a flywheel (not a T) they would remain in place at 1,200 RPM. I did not need to go higher.

Great idea, likely will make the whole tray magnetic in the process. You can't pick the magnet of the ruler in the picture, you need to slide it off to an edge. Since a picture is worth a 1,000 words, just a little demo on how much strength these rare earth magnets have.

--
--
This is about how much the magnetic strength from a short distance. That's about the max weight at that point

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 5:51 pm**

John Codman wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:38 pm
Gerrit - I would install a rare Earth magnet and never worry about it coming loose. You can google K&N magnetics. Don't go too big or you will never get it off the oil screen. If you have never used one of these magnets you will be amazed at how powerful they are. Buy the highest grade that they carry (the higher the number the higher the temperature they will handle).

To give you an idea of the magnet's strength, I bought a few 3/8" discs to try to find an imbalance in a flywheel (not a T) they would remain in place at 1,200 RPM. I did not need to go higher.

Thank you, John.

I checked out the website and they have an impressive selection of powerful magnets. Also read up a bit on rare earth magnets since I didn't know what they were. Very interesting reading about their characteristics and development. I appreciate the info, will order one for the Tee and some additional for other things.

Gerrit

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:23 pm**

My screen from Snyder’s came with a magnet.

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:06 pm**

: magnet.jpg (4.2 KiB) Viewed 4649 times

This is the ceramic magnet you can get at Menards. About $2.50 for a pack of two.
Same as the one up above in Frank's post.

You can start a big discussion if you want over whether it should be placed vertically or horizontally in the screen.

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 8:08 pm**

And magnets do NOT like VIBRATION and HOT and COLD cycles! Cost me an engine and transmission when the same one you are showing disintegrated. Get a round magnet for an automatic transmission and just put it on the outside of the cover. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

Hank

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 10:51 pm**

The only issue that I have had with the magnets is that they are brittle. If you drop one on a concrete floor it will probably shatter. I did mention that there are different grades based on the temperature that they will be exposed to. There are several manufacturer's websites that have tables. Any magnet that is approved for 212 degrees should be fine.

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:54 pm**

John Codman wrote: ↑
Tue Mar 08, 2022 10:51 pm
The only issue that I have had with the magnets is that they are brittle. If you drop one on a concrete floor it will probably shatter. I did mention that there are different grades based on the temperature that they will be exposed to. There are several manufacturer's websites that have tables. Any magnet that is approved for 212 degrees should be fine.

If you drop them hard enough, they can also lose their magnetism even if they don't brake apart.

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:23 pm**

So with all the issues about using magnets, why not use a magneto magnet since it may be one of accepted construction. Besides you can even recharge it when doing an oil change.

Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2022 10:50 am**

Well, the magneto magnet was designed to survive in hot oil. But it's too big to fit inside the screen. If you lay it on top of the lid, will the lid catch the iron particles? I think I'll try it and see.

Posted: **Thu Mar 10, 2022 3:29 pm**

Steve
I went to the store and got the strongest magnets they had. Round, about the size of a quarter. Definitely stronger than the magneto magnets I placed all three on the tranny lid. After a month I checked and nothing under the lid where the magnets are placed. The lid is steel. The magnetism from the magnets was neutralized or disbursed throught the steel lid.

At least it was a good test.

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