firewall brackets

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AndreFordT
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firewall brackets

Post by AndreFordT » Fri Apr 05, 2019 3:56 am

Hey all,

I am rebuilding my 1915 touring. It came with no firewall brackets but with a construction of wood bolt nails and something that looks like glue.
There should be two brackets that must do the job a better way but how are they mounted on the body and the firewall ?

Found some photos on ebay.

Thanks
Andre

Belgium
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firewall brackets.jpg
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AndreFordT
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Re: firewall brackets

Post by AndreFordT » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:05 am

In the attachment some photos of the way the firewall was mounted.

Andre
Belgium
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DSCN859902.JPG
DSCN859802.JPG
DSCN859702.JPG
DSCN858902.JPG


Dom Denio
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Re: firewall brackets

Post by Dom Denio » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:14 am

Andre,

You are looking for the following brackets. Lang's Old Car Parts sell a pair of these on-line. The part # is 3640-41B.

Below is a photo of the brackets from their website.

Best of luck,
Dom
Firewall bracket.jpg

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RajoRacer
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Re: firewall brackets

Post by RajoRacer » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:24 am

Andre - the brackets you posted a photo of are referred to as "butterfly" brackets for a flat firewall car - you need the ones Dom posted the link for.

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George House
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Re: firewall brackets

Post by George House » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:02 am

Andre, se those 2 holes on top of the frame rails in your last two pictures - that’s where the frame-to- firewall brackets bolt to.
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Re: firewall brackets

Post by Piewagon » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:10 am

Just to clarify a bit. Pictured above are 2 different bracket types for use on firewalls. For the record ALL wood firewalls were in fact FLAT but they did vary in size a bit. A better way might be to state the early firewalls that used the "butterfly" brackets were those up to and including 1914 and they were rather wide and extended out over the front fenders somewhat. So-called "butterfly brackets were not typically used on 1915 and later cars even though the parts book for 1916 says they were. A still later directory of part numbers to factory numbers shows the butterfly bracket was in fact used from 1908-1914. Those butterfly brackets mounted the lower body front end to the DASH itself and are in fact DASH-TO-BODY brackets while the Vertical brackets pictured above were the DASH-TO-FRAME brackets which were used from 1911 through 1916 and thus were used in 1915. 1909-1910 versions of these vertical brackets were slightly different. For 1915 the hood former that typically mounted to the front of the dash was now a piece of sheet metal that encased the dash outer edges and it was bolted directly through the dash and into the body front. The vertical dash-to-frame brackets were mounted right next to the dash opening and hide under the cover of the hood former sheet metal.

The "butterfly bracket" on early cars had no specific location holes shown on the factory drawing for the dash as did the DASH-TO-FRAME brackets. The butterfly bracket was bolted to the body front edge then holes were drilled in place on the dash so be careful NOT to force holes to a location that was on the original dash if you have in fact installed a different body since those holes might be a long way off. On 1914 and earlier bodies with doors there was an additional bracket mounted higher on the dash to hold the top of the body front to the dash and its location was also "drilled in place" to locate the upper mounting location on the dash.

The "butterfly" bracket in the picture is an EARLY one used at least through 1912 and is a tough one to find unless somebody started making them EXACTLY correct since it has the small webbing across the corners at both top and bottom making it very difficult to bend and break as easily as the repro brackets which typically only consist of a simple 90 degree bend without any webbing across the corners.

Note - while all wood dashes are flat they did change thickness DURING early 1915 models from 3/4" thick to 11/16" thick and they stayed that way until obsoleted. Wood dashes were pretty much gone after February 1923. My own '23 has a wooden dash but it is a very late February 1923 car.

On the pictured speedster it should be noted that the addition of a starter (as per the picture) will likely make it necessary to alter the dash mounting to frame mounting to clear the starter or at least typically some trimming of the dash. I would suggest one take a look at the pictures of a 1923 dash to notice the trimming of the dash shape at the lower inside surfaces to thus be able to "clear" the starter. Otherwise motor installation with starter in place is rather difficult and sometimes impossible when using a non Ford body

Just wanted to help. No criticism intended of the above postings.

John


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Re: firewall brackets

Post by Original Smith » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:29 am

The two butterfly brackets you posted were used up until early '13. I have two '13s. One is February, and the other is April. The January one has butterfly brackets, and the April car does not, it just has the simple one bolt style used through '14.


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Re: firewall brackets

Post by Allan » Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:08 am

My 1915 Canadian tourer had firewall to frame brackets which were different from those forged ones shown as being available from Lang's. They were made of flat section steel. the leg along the top of the frame was simply bent at right angles to the firewall, the bracket followed the firewall face upwards, and was then doubled back on itself and the second foot formed by bending again at right angles. These 'feet' were offset like those on the forged items, and were certainly not hand made. They had just two bolt holes where the forged type have 3. I have seen more than one set of these. I imagine they were cheaper to make than the forged type.

Allan from down under.

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