MTFCA Forum

I would like to have a clarification on the manufacture number attributed to the recently sold 1908 designated a Number 2.

1. Are all Model T's dated by the manufacture number stamped on the engine block?

2. At the time the Model T was introduced, production beginning 1907 to 1908, the foundry (Romeo Foundry Co) contracted with Henry Ford to produce the motor blocks. The 1922 article stating to show the progress in production stated that at first 50 motor blocks a day were cast ( from a Ford News release for 1922). To do this the foundry would need a number of patterns. And each pattern would have to given a number?

3. McCalley (1994) states that the 1908/1909 motor blocks were given a S/N located between centre exhaust ports ser # 1 to 309...calendar year1908 (Oct 1908 to May 1909) Pages 433.

4. McCalley (1994) states p.433, that for 1909 the ser # was on the boss behind cam gear housing on right side of engine. Production 1 May 1909 to 31 July 1909. McCalley states that the Ford Data shows that 1 to 11,100 cars built.

5. The Fordowner for June 1919 carried an article - Telling when each Ford was born and bringing motor numbers up to date. In May 1918 the publication carried an article about ford cars and their birthday. The 1919 article in the Fordowner states that "the real value of these motor numbers is to establish the definite date a Ford car was built. (1919) the motor number is stamped on the left hand side of the cylinder block, just above the side water inlet hose connection. ...many states require this motor number when application for a license is made." Then the question is asked about the block casting numbers, the article states that the block casting numbers (placed on a pattern before the motor block is made) . The casting number is the age of the motor block. And it can be misleading when finding the age of a car.

6. Fordowner for 1919, states that the earlier Fords,”the old Fords” had their motor numbers stamped down near the breather, or oil filler pipe. Also the 1919 article states that most of the early old Fords have had their original blocks replaced by new blocks with manufacture numbers near the water inlet.

7. The 1919 Fordowner carried a list of Ford Motor Numbers for each month:
1908
October 1 to October 31 - Motor Number 1 to 11 - with 11 cars produced.
November 1 to November 30 - Motor Number 11 to 101 - with 90 cars produced
December 1 to December 31 - Motor number 101 to 309 - with 209 cars produced.

By 1909 Ford was beginning major production of the Model T.

I believe that the Number 2 on the engine block of the Model T sold was an early Ford pattern identifier for the Romeo Foundry. The motor is probably an original Romeo block. As for it being an original Ford?

Pattern markings are embossments on the actual pattern. They create raised features on the final product.

Regardless of any opinion as to authenticity, the "2" in the car you're referring to is a stamped impression onto a machined surface, precisely where it should be for an engine of that vintage.

It is not and cannot in any way be associated with a pattern identification.

When I look at a photograph of the identifier as Model T # 2, ((Number for car under discussion...Appear to be raised)). I see a raised 2, It does not appear to be a double strike. The stamp for 220 looks like a depress set of numbers from stencil stamps.
Stamped Number for car under discussion...Appear to be raised. Numbers applied ro pattern and raised Stamped to block Raised Number part of core casting

And people who have actually SEEN the car say it is a slightly double striked STAMP, regardless of how it photographs, or what anyone thinks from viewing the photograph.

Given that it is on a machined surface, on which the core plugs have been machined to the point of blending in with the block, a raised number on that surface would be a miracle on par with immaculate conception.

FWIW, my Aug 09 has a raised 3 on the side of the block.