MTFCA Forum

Hey all. I just purchased a 1926 Model T Coupe.The car did not come with Door Keys. I would like to find a Southern California based Locksmith that deals with sizing up the lock and making keys for it. i don't want to go through removing/replacing the tumbler mechanism. ARE THERE ANY SO CAL BASED Model T owners who have a locksmith they have used? A few I have contacted are telling me the car is too old.....

Please let me know if you have a good referral!!! THANK YOU!

In case you can’t find a locksmith that will have or cut a cut a key Lang’s sells a new reproduction cylinder and key that’s really close to the original.
I have a 24 Coupe and when I restored my car I found out that the 24-27 closed T ‘s used the same type of door key and cylinder. It’s simple to remove the cylinder and replace it. 1 screw holds it in.
https://www.modeltford.com/model-t-part ... oor/latch/

Don’t waste your time or money on an overpriced locksmith. Even if he cut you a new key you are still stuck with a 75 year old cylinder. Get a new cylinder with matching “keys” and fix the problem for the next 75 years. I have a 26 coupe and it is only one screw to change the cylinder.

Thanks Guys. I saw that on Langs. I need to check as to availability as lots of parts are on back order these days. I am hopeful that this would not be one because it is a commonly required part....


Also, a MTFCA member texted me....he is a retired locksmith in so cal and said he could possibly cut a key if i can get him the cylinder number...

Both your options and his are awesome and one of them will work...and I CAN NOT THANK YOU BOTH ENOUGH<<<<<<<<Lisa. This forum is awesome.....and the same for everyone on it. SO willing to help. Thank you. Again.

Lisa, try Kennedy Lock and Safe. 18512 Sherman Way, Reseda. (818) 705-1859.
They made keys for me for a couple of vintage wheel locks for me about 10 years ago.

Kennedy Lock? Will call them at 9 am when they open. I do not have the key. OR ANY KEY. Stay tuned. This would be great as it is local. I do not want to put a new unit in crazy as it sounds.....I want to keep things the way they are if at all possible.

old charley - nope. they do not do car keys...

Lisa

that is likely because you asked if they could do a key for a car. It may be a policy to keep from aiding criminals with stolen cars, or simply the fact that modern car keys are a very different creature these days. In fact your lock is a generic lock very much akin to those on tool boxes and desk drawers, which they would probably do in a New York second. I would show up at their door with the lock in hand and ask them to "please look at this and make a key". You might be surprised at how quickly one appears.

I think the really good lock pickers are still in jail .........

If the vendors are out of stock these on Ebay are the same. You just slide them into the door, mark the shaft to length, then cut to length with a common hack saw.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/350794224732

not correct for a 1930-31 Model A Ford door handle with lock.

Scott - I called them again.... I did say I purchased a 1926 Ford T and it came without keys. They said they do not do car keys at all anymore..... COVID. No shop..... but they used to

ModelT46 wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 04, 2022 6:04 pm

not correct for a 1930-31 Model A Ford door handle with lock.

It will fit all Model T closed cars 1924-1927. I have bought and installed 3 so far.

Thank you Michael. I will hold this as an option. I am going to go the hard route first - trying to get a key made for this lock....even though it will be more money. All the Langs parts are on back order.....so

This could be viable....

You might also check with Chaffin's or Snyder's - both reputable vendors !

I have already emailed Chaffins. And was about to email Snyders.

I asked if they had used parts/units or knew of a locksmith locally who can rekey. I also have been in contact with a nice man on this forum who is a retired locksmith in MD....so hopefully if someone locally is not available then I will go with MD if the maker and tumbler serial number is on the unit once removed from the car.

If someone here on the forum can provide contact information for Jarvis Erickson, he may be able to help you.
Besides being the nation's authority on Mercury bodied Model T Speedsters, he is also a locksmith specializing in vintage auto locks.
Give him a try, he may be able to help.
By the way, in case you didn't already know, in your photo that you posted above showing your door striker. The small slotted screw between the striker and the door flange is the screw that holds in the lock assembly. By removing this screw completely will allow you to remove the lock assembly.
By doing this, it will make servicing the lock much more convenient.
If this subject has already been covered in this thread, I apologize for the repeat information.

Good Luck.
Mike.

modeltspaz wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 05, 2022 12:23 am

If someone here on the forum can provide contact information for Jarvis Erickson, he may be able to help you.
Besides being the nation's authority on Mercury bodied Model T Speedsters, he is also a locksmith specializing in vintage auto locks.
Give him a try, he may be able to help.
By the way, in case you didn't already know, in your photo that you posted above showing your door striker. The small slotted screw between the striker and the door flange is the screw that holds in the lock assembly. By removing this screw completely will allow you to remove the lock assembly.
By doing this, it will make servicing the lock much more convenient.
If this subject has already been covered in this thread, I apologize for the repeat information.

Good Luck.
Mike.

Mike - YES! Last night I was told there was a guy named Jarvis who could help - and that he lists in the Hemming Motor News? I picked it up on the way to work today and will go through it at lunch.....but so far I am up to page 86 and no Jarvis. So yup...if someone knows his contact info please let me know. Lisa Goldberg - lirogo27@aol.com.

Mike - YES! Last night I was told there was a guy named Jarvis who could help - and that he lists in the Hemming Motor News? I picked it up on the way to work today and will go through it at lunch.....but so far I am up to page 86 and no Jarvis. So yup...if someone knows his contact info please let me know. Lisa Goldberg - lirogo27@aol.com.

FOLKS! I was unable to get the tumbler out. There is something holding it on the back side other than the slotted screw on the door side. I will have to try again after talking with you folks here on the board!!!

Should I take the door panel off?????

Contact this forum member for details. He had the exact same problem a few months back getting the cylinder out of his door and I cannot remember his solution…..
upload pic

old_charley wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 04, 2022 10:57 am

Lisa, try Kennedy Lock and Safe. 18512 Sherman Way, Reseda. (818) 705-1859.
They made keys for me for a couple of vintage wheel locks for me about 10 years ago.

They no longer operate as a store front.

Chris,

Thank you!

I posted further up in the thread that Kennedy Lock and Key does not do cars anymore - and has not for close to 10 years. They suggested another place.....

Michael - thank you! I did send Bruce an email....waiting to hear back. I fear the only way to get it out is to cut whatever it is holding it in or to destroy the mechanism....stay tuned

This might be his the thread regarding getting a door lock out.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25753&p=197274&hili ... ck#p197274

Kburket,

Yes it looks like it! But there is a reference to 'other pictures' or earlier pictures and I can't find the pics.

I did msg the poster. But it does appear that he had to destroy the old lock to get it out.

If I destroy I will have no lock. Any repro are long back ordered. Used are hard to find.

The post about removing the lock shows the way not to do it I personally would not have done it that way. If it seems that the lock won’t push out or come out easily after removing the set screw and by bumping the tailpiece with a mallet, The next thing to do would be to loosen all the screws that hold the lockset in the door to give a little more movement to the lock it self when you bump on the tailpiece, And of course that’s done before the body is blasted for paint removal. Just my opinion.

John! Thank you. Stay tuned tonight....will try doing that! There is something holding the unit. Given that the door knobs work and are connected to handle and lock I am assuming there is some thing attached still. It is clear from the pictures that this was done a very long time ago with the paint around the lock coming off. Given that the lock does easily come out a 1/4 inch and it is 'wiggly' I am guessing there is an attachment somehow.....

Will definitely take that plate off tonight and go from there! Will circle back with you all. AGAIN - thank you everyone. You folks are truly a wonderful community and resource. Sincerely, Lisa.

Lisa

after your trouble and effort to find a locksmith, may I now ask the question: "Why do you need this lock to work?"

You are not keeping anyone from stealing the thing; and if trying to protect valuables, are inviting damage. Consider that the VAST majority of "T"s are open cars, you might consider just leaving things alone

at the very least, advice to use hammers and punches, or metal saws, are not exactly in keeping with either restoration or preservation. You've only had the car a month...you WILL eventually come across someone willing and capable of making a key. This is an extraordinarily simple lock and a knowledgeable person (with the will to do it, and the right blank) can impress and cut a key for it, even standing in a parking lot. I am an engineer, not a locksmith, and yet after a little YouTube tutorial, I have been able to make several keys that I needed which work just fine. Find a crafty old fart near you who has a little skill with his hands and see what you can accomplish...

Scott_Conger wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:30 pm

Lisa

after your trouble and effort to find a locksmith, may I now ask the question: "Why do you need this lock to work?"

You are not keeping anyone from stealing the thing; and if trying to protect valuables, are inviting damage. Consider that the VAST majority of "T"s are open cars, you might consider just leaving things alone

at the very least, advice to use hammers and punches, or metal saws, are not exactly in keeping with either restoration or preservation. You've only had the car a month...you WILL eventually come across someone willing and capable of making a key. This is an extraordinarily simple lock and a knowledgeable person (with the will to do it, and the right blank) can impress and cut a key for it, even standing in a parking lot. I am an engineer, not a locksmith, and yet after a little YouTube tutorial, I have been able to make several keys that I needed which work just fine. Find a crafty old fart near you who has a little skill with his hands and see what you can accomplish...

Scott - II am beginning to think along your lines! I did try to take the plate off the door jamb and it will not budge. Everything is moving as if it is one unit welded or rusted together it and i do not want to harm the mechanism by prying and distorting. I did WD 4 behind and through the screw holes in the hopes it will loosen everything. I am beginning to think along your thought process - It might be best to leave it as it is and hope I can find someone who can come and press a key as is - meaning through the front of the lock while the lock s in the door. There is also likely a retention ring or clip holding the mechanisms together on the inside and they are also likely attached to the door. The only way this will get done is from the front by a licensed person who has the know how on old locks to finagle a way. Every local locksmith has turned me down but one so I am hoping he can come out and make it work while the lock is still attached to the car....

Scott - I am beginning to think along your lines! I did try to take the plate off the door jamb and it will not budge. Everything is moving as if it is one unit welded or rusted together and i do not want to harm the mechanism by prying and distorting. I did WD 40 behind and through the screw holes in the hopes it will loosen everything. I am beginning to think along your thought process - It might be best to leave it as it is and hope I can find someone who can come and press a key as is - meaning through the front of the lock while the lock is in the door. That lock will not come apart without a fight. I am also told by a locksmith - There is also likely a retention ring or clip holding the mechanisms together on the inside and they are also likely attached by clips to the door frame. The only way this will get done is from the front by a licensed person who has the know how on old locks to finagle a way to generate the key - which i am told is a simple key. Every local locksmith has turned me down but one so I am hoping he can come out and make it work while the lock is still attached to the car....not while the lock is in multiple pieces on the ground...

I too have a 1926 T coupe and don’t have a key for the door lock. If I need to lock something up, I just put it in the back deck, no one that is not a Model T person can figure out how to open the deck.
The way both of the inside door locks work, the lever moving forward and back to lock, there must be a connecting lever to the outside lock cylinder on the passenger door side. If you take the door panel off and check things out with a mirror or scope, maybe even take some cell phone pictures, it may show you what is going on. Try checking with some Model A clubs in your area, the 1928-29 closed cab A pickup uses the same doors as your T coupe. The Model A uses a lock in the door handle but I don’t know about the pickup, or maybe someone has converted a Model T door to Model A and had to remove the T lock.

Lang’s has a good brief explanation of how the door lock cylinder is secured in the 24-27 closed car doors.
It is held in place by 1 retention screw. There is no clip, retention ring or lever that’s connected to it to prevent it from being removed.

It’s secured in place by 1 screw that’s screwed in against a flat that’s on one side of the cylinder. That’s it.
The tail piece goes in through the lock and when it’s turned it turns a small lever which locks the latch unit inside the lock. There is nothing locking or being clipped on the tail piece.

The tail piece simply goes through a square hole and that’s it. It’s not secured to anything. The cylinder itself is what secured by just 1 screw. Just as Lang’s explains on its website.
When in doubt read the instructions. If you take your car to a locksmith be sure he understands that and OVERTHINKS how it’s secured. It may save you a little money.

After years in a door they seem to be seized. It takes gentle coaxing to get the cylinder to start moving by using WD-40 and patience. Using a rubber or wooden mallet gently on the other end of the tailpiece will get it to start moving and out of the door.
Good luck.

John,

Will do. I will try again this evening. I had an antique locksmith locally look at the pictures.....he actually thinks this unit is one that does have a clip of some sort. Either way will keep trying gently until it is fruitless. And I can always leave it as is and just never lock the door. I do not keep anything in it. And who the heck knows how to drive a t anyway? I don't think car thiefs do...unless they are model t owners.....

And we will go from there. THANK YOU!

I’ve always felt original locks and keys are the crowning touch to any project. I took pains to get the right keys and locks for my model A. Sure, ripping it out and putting something new in is the cheap, easy way, but it’s sure not the cowboy way! Keep at it, lady! Again, JMHO

I just want it to be right. Also, the replacement lock has been on backorder going on four months...

Also, you have to be able to get the unit out to replace it. I have been given precise instructions for tonight and will do those and try again..>!

I did hear back from BRB27 who had the same problem a few years ago. The only way he got the unit out was to drive through the existing lock unit from the front with a punch, destroying the lock and buying a new one.

I have been lubricating the unit for the past few nights with WD40. I also looked at diagrams of the actual lock mechanism and where the shaft front the lock assembly fits.

Will try again on Saturday. I also have an appointment with a local antique car locksmith on Tuesday who is going to come to the house to see if he can possibly make a key from the lock while it is in the door.....Long shot I know. But he has extensive experience and is a 2nd generation locksmith. He has pictures from all angles of the lock....

Otherwise the option of never locking my door is ok with me. I don't plan on keeping anything in the car. It is just a challenge now of finding a key...more like a treasure hunt than anything.

Stay tuned on Saturday and I will have a better indication if I can gently move the tumbler out with some persuasion or if we go to the tuesday appointment with the local antique car locksmith.

Mr. Golden - I will email you directly later today but I was hoping I could get it out and get it to you to do your magic. I don't think that will happen the way things are going! lisa

The early model A have beautiful ford script keys. I have zilch knowledge of what the T used for door locks., but once you get a modern key cut, you can then chase an original key with enough meat to cut still. The chase is half the fun. iMHO

Dropacent

I agree. And I will definitely chase a key! It will definitely look like the three on the right....

Hard to find original keys...people want all sorts of crazy amounts for them. Hopefully someone - whether it be Mr. Golden or the guy locally - can make it happen. I will know by tuesday!

Ace Hardware usually has that paticular key blank. It’s been used for lots of keys over the years. And by the way I worked as a locksmith / maintenance mechanic at a College for many years before I retired. Most of the time working on locks it’s a mechanical issue usually. Those T locks are fairly simple. Auto door locks started getting a bit more complicated in the late 40’s but the basics were the same. Good luck and it would be interesting to know what your locksmith will do in trying to remove the lock. When you know what’s making it diffulcult beforehand makes it easier to repair.

John kuehn wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:35 pm

Ace Hardware usually has that paticular key blank. It’s been used for lots of keys over the years. And by the way I worked as a locksmith / maintenance mechanic at a College for many years before I retired. Most of the time working on locks it’s a mechanical issue usually. Those T locks are fairly simple. Auto door locks started getting a bit more complicated in the late 40’s but the basics were the same. Good luck and it would be interesting to know what your locksmith will do in trying to remove the lock. When you know what’s making it diffulcult beforehand makes it easier to repair.

JOHN! You are joking right?! ACE?! I wonder which blank it is....

95% of the locksmiths I spoke with basically said three words - "no, too old". And that was that. There are a few confident/brave folks out there that said they could do it...if I got the cylinder out. I will sit down on saturday and try again for a few hrs. After that, Tuesday will be the day. The hope is that he will be able to make a key from the front of the unit. I know it might not work but the lock is indeed fairly simple and Dan has closeup pictures from the front. There will not be any invasive stuff. Or destruction. Just trying to persuade the lock out. and if that doesn't work I will be done with it. And will just not lock the car or leave things in it that could entice people.

No joke. basco. Briggs & straton. The blank looks like a "B1" key blank. I have one for a locking gas cap. There are several "B" blanks on their boards. B3 is another popular one. If the cylinder can be removed & freed up, its a simple operation to disassemble the cyl (typically)& file a key. Use the ACE key blank. Last step in the restoration is to find a NOS properly marked blank & duplicate cut from your working ACE key. Or find an original cut key & change the cylinder pins or equivalent parts.

Here is a picture of the 2 keys for the 24 Coupe door lock on my car. It’s a picture showing both sides of the same key. Look closely at the pic that dropacent sent and you can see it has the same key way as the originals he shows. Mine probably has different cuts but it’s the same key as his originals.
This key is a Ilco 109SX. Or it could be 1098X. The stamping might not be clear. Most lock shops should have these. I got mine from Ace hardware about 10 years ago. If not they are probably available online and other brands probably make the same type of key.
It’s a fairly common key for different types of locks.

John,

It is funny....I was looking at Ilco keys on line last night. They look like the right size. a few looked a bit thick but the others looked spot on. Let us see what Dan says when he is at the house on Tuesday. I am going to sit down on Saturday and spend a few hrs trying to get the lock out. BY end of day Saturday it will either come out or not. By end of day Tuesday we will know if Dan can finagle it out or if he can make a key from the front of the cylinder...while the lock is in the door.

I will speak with him about Ilco but I suspect that he has already arrived at that as a possibility.

THE KEY ISSUE IS SOLVED! Thank you Dan from Antique Automotive in Southern California. He came out and hand cut a key the old fashioned way - with a locksmith file, patiently!. It turns out there were no numbers on the cylinder. He was able to figure out which key was needed from a series of 8 pictures I sent him of the lock head on which show positioning of the tumblers and pins. He then placed a blank in the lock and used the marks made by the pins on the blank to cut a key. What an ART!

Basically the lock in the car was likely not original to the car. The lock was very similar to a Yale and a 1122 Ilco key was used. Done! Thank you all for your help!

Congratulations

Scott_Conger wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:01 am

Congratulations

THANK YOU SCOTT!!!