MTFCA Forum

I’m sure this is pretty simple, but I’m making it more difficult. This car came to me with one short brake rod (installed) and what I assume is two correct ones, not installed. One still had the sticker on that said 3468C. When I install the right ones they seem to set the brake, although I haven’t tested it yet. The problem comes when I push the brake lever full forward it won’t go all the way forward without bouncing back a few clicks due to the rods bending and being in a bind. Is that normal? Maybe the lever doesn’t need to go all the way forward for it to make ‘High Gear’? Maybe this is them where I need to adjust the clutch?

Sounds like your rods are still adjustrd too long. Try setting your rod lengths with the hand brake all the way forward. Jack up the car and adjust your brakes from there, incrementally shortening each rod one side at a time until your brake starts dragging, release the handbrake.
Processs is twist it shorter, pull handbrake and try and spin the wheel by hand. Takes 10 mins per side.
Post a pic of your brake rods on from 2ft forward of the rear axle back. You can mount the rods wrong too. Rear whoop dee doo bends go up away from ground. That's why I asked for pic

My rods don't have any bends in them. Maybe I'm supposed to put them there? The grey one is the one that I think is right. The silver one was on the car when I got it. What lead me to this quandary was that after putting the grey one on Saturday and going for a drive all seemed fairly well (only my second drive) till I shifted to high then the whole car seemed to vibrate and struggled to get up to speed. I assume....from a novice point of view, that the improper brake rod adjustment might be causing some High Speed Gear slipping?

CatGuy wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:12 am

My rods don't have any bends in them. Maybe I'm supposed to put them there? The grey one is the one that I think is right. The silver one was on the car when I got it. What lead me to this quandary was that after putting the grey one on Saturday and going for a drive all seemed fairly well (only my second drive) till I shifted to high then the whole car seemed to vibrate and struggled to get up to speed. I assume....from a novice point of view, that the improper brake rod adjustment might be causing some High Speed Gear slipping?

CatGuy wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 25, 2022 8:12 am

My rods don't have any bends in them. Maybe I'm supposed to put them there? The grey one is the one that I think is right. The silver one was on the car when I got it. What lead me to this quandary was that after putting the grey one on Saturday and going for a drive all seemed fairly well (only my second drive) till I shifted to high then the whole car seemed to vibrate and struggled to get up to speed. I assume....from a novice point of view, that the improper brake rod adjustment might be causing some High Speed Gear slipping?

I dont see mention of year. Small drum rods have some offset bends. If the rods cause the parking brake lever back enough to get the cam involved with the clutch arm, slipping can/will occur. I believe this has been the chief cause of burning out th400 clutches. This will cause stock steel disks to blue & loose their dish making for a poor neutral, especially noticeable when starting cold.

Sorry, I'm always forgetting that. I was in a hurry this morning. This is a '26 Runabout.

The Service Manual gives good instruction, but sometimes parts like brake cam and shoes are worn. Most times the Service way works, but this thread gives a variation for setting the parking brake rods. Good description, maybe give it a try.



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DanTreace wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 25, 2022 10:39 am

The Service Manual gives good instruction, but sometimes parts like brake cam and shoes are worn. Most times the Service way works, but this thread gives a variation for setting the parking brake rods. Good description, maybe give it a try.



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I do have that Service Manual. It seems odd to me that there are many different ways to do this. I'll have to try this other way. I don't know why I'm struggling with something that is probably so easy.......

Try different ways. Large drum brake levers are much longer & are much less prone to the kind of trouble you are having. Small drum adjustment can be a dance of compromise, but the lever must stay down as a priority in the adjustment. Large drums usually have the opposite problem from excessive wear.

Scott H . Is this an solution for your bending Rods ???
Toon

ABoer wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:59 am

Scott H . Is this an solution for your bending Rods ???
Toonremstangen.JPG

Not real sure. I'm still new to the world of T's.

ABoer wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 25, 2022 11:59 am

Scott H . Is this an solution for your bending Rods ???
Toonremstangen.JPG

This idea is fantastic. It would be a great product. It does solve the brake adjustment problem. I did something similar on a small drum setup with some found slotted clevisis. Works like the R/M brake slider.

I do have that Service Manual. It seems odd to me that there are many different ways to do this. I'll have to try this other way. I don't know why I'm struggling with something that is probably so easy.......

Maybe these photos will help to envision the brake cam, how it expands the shoes, the position of the cam lever at rest and when shoes are expanded.

The rods are adjusted with the hand lever is first placed so the 'neutral' is just met. (you can roll the T by hand) (i.e.) The hand lever adj. bolt lifts the clutch lever arm enough to put the trans. in 'neutral', that spot varies some, but most times on the high leading edge of the cross shaft arm cam. The hand lever most times is shy of true vertical.


Once you have the hand lever there, then adj. the rods to fit. The rear brake cam lever should be in that happy 'free' zone, where the cam isn't really expanding the shoes. Keep that cam lever in that spot as you lengthen or shorten the clevis at the end of the brake rod at the cross shaft lever.

Pic of my '26 brake rod in place. Note bend in rod from manufacture.
Are your rods straight all the way? Correct for 26-27 rear axle or the axle on your car? Brake back plate should be 11 inches for improved car.

Original??
26-7 rods are straight. Small drum rods have a u bend to clear the radius rods. See Langs catalog.

Mine are straight. I took some pictures at lunch that I'll try to post soon. I was able to get the parking brake to hold one wheel, the driver's side. Still when I put the lever all the way forward it bends the rod to one side and springs the lever back to nearly vertical.

Here are some pictures. #1 The clevis the car came with. I don't think it's correct. It's all I can do to thread them on the rod. #2 Is with the brake on. #3 Is with it in neutral (vertical). #4 is with the brake off and the rod flexing or bending inward as I hold it. #5 Is another picture of the clevis.

A side note. The clevises should have nuts behind them. Once you get the adjustment right, the nuts are tightened against the clevises so that the rods don't vibrate within the clevises and wear away the threads.

Those rods do not look like original ones. Not knowing their source or how correct they are, it may not be a bad thing to trim their length once you're certain everything is working as it should.

Look at Dan's photos above. Compare them to what's happening on your car. Maybe post photos of your car, showing the same views that Dan did, with the same brake lever positions.

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 25, 2022 4:17 pm

A side note. The clevises should have nuts behind them. Once you get the adjustment right, the nuts are tightened against the clevises so that the rods don't vibrate within the clevises and wear away the threads.

Those rods do not look like original ones. Not knowing their source or how correct they are, it may not be a bad thing to trim their length once you're certain everything is working as it should.

Look at Dan's photos above. Compare them to what's happening on your car. Maybe post photos of your car, showing the same views that Dan did, with the same brake lever positions.

I'm seriously considering buying all new rods, clevis, nuts, pins. I can't get these clevis to turn on these rods unless I use pliers in both hands and even then the pliers just slip. Weird. Is it possible that the threads don't match? I'm either going to get them from Snyder's or Langs. Thoughts?

If you have the correct rods for the car, they should allow the lever at the wheel to move back far enough to completely release the brake while the hand lever is all the way forward. They should at the same time be adjusted short enough that the clevis pin can be inserted without bending the rod. Starting from this point, with both wheels jacked up, pull the hand lever back far enough to begin to apply the brake. Try turning both sides. They should both start to bind at the same notch of the quadrant. If one starts to bind but the other is still loose, tighten the loose one one half turn and put the pin in. Then try turning both wheels. Do this one half turn until both wheels get tight so you cannot turn them by hand. Booth wheels should get tight at the same notch of the lever. Now set the lever all the way forward and you should have high gear without either rod bending. Now pull the lever back until the bolt engages the cam completely. This point would be just after the bolt goes up the ramp to the flat part of the cam, but no farther. At this point, you should have neutral but the brakes would not be tight.
Norm

I called Lang's to ask about the rods and the guy that I talked to said that I need to take a look at the brake shoes and maybe adjust them. Maybe they are new and causing things to bind up.

You can chase the threads on the rods so they're good and clean, and will let the nut travel and turn easier.
Chasing threads is easy to do in a vise off the car. Don't do it on the car. You'll twist it all up.

They are the wrong clevises. T model ones are much shorter, so in effect those are making your rods longer than they should be. On a 1926, the clevises should be made of rolled steel with a join along the under side. Only the early cars had forged clevises like yours, but they are still much shorter.

Your idea to replace the lot with new parts has merit.

Hope this helps. Allan from down under.

I did order new parts last night. Not too costly. Any thoughts on the brake shoes being the issue?

In response to your question regarding the brake shoes. When I did my car (1923) I installed new brake cam lobes and the new lined internal brake shoes. I had a similar problem to yours. I called and spoke to Langs about this, and he told me that the new lined brake shoes are cast thicker were the brake cam rides. The person having these produced was doing this to account for wear in the brake cam lobes. If I recall correctly, I had to grind at least 1/16 off part of the brake shoe cam until my neutral, high, and brakes all worked as they should. Perhaps this applies to you?

-Joshua

1923Touring wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 26, 2022 1:27 pm

In response to your question regarding the brake shoes. When I did my car (1923) I installed new brake cam lobes and the new lined internal brake shoes. I had a similar problem to yours. I called and spoke to Langs about this, and he told me that the new lined brake shoes are cast thicker were the brake cam rides. The person having these produced was doing this to account for wear in the brake cam lobes. If I recall correctly, I had to grind at least 1/16 off part of the brake shoe cam until my neutral, high, and brakes all worked as they should. Perhaps this applies to you?

-Joshua

It's possible......I hope not.

What is the thread size? I think it's 5/16 - 24, but I want to verify that. I found someone to clean the threads up.

I just purchased new brake rods and clevises for a '26 from Langs, and had to chase the new clevis threads to turn easily on the new rods. Old celvis threaded easily on new rods. fwiw, jb