MTFCA Forum

I attended my good friend's estate auction yesterday. The 1923 roadster and 1917 touring, both older restorations with wear and good runners brought $17,000 each. The parts and accessories were high also. Good for us owners, tough for new buyers.

Well, as far as new owners is concerned, maybe, maybe not. Seems as I've seen around here the last coupla years, IF there's any young folks that WANT to work, or have any kind of skills, be it trade or (ahem) IT, they're bringing down pretty good bucks. Wife's niece and nephew-in-law only in their low 30s, both do whatever it is at a computer firm and between the two they're not hurting, bringing down over $100K between the two. The real problem is, the younger generation just is NOT interested in vintage cars. Guess they expect their vehicles to be as fast as their 200 mbps internet.

Today's dollar isn't worth much. In fact, it's worth between 2 and 3 cents compared to the dollar of 1910. A young couple today with no debt and no children who earn a good living will be paying about 20% of their income to the fedgov for "income tax" and another 18% of their gross income will go to "Social Security", Medicare, Medicaid, etc. In many states and localities, they will pay additional income taxes. Texas sales taxes are over 8 % in most localities, and probably worse in many other states. That's just the tip of the massive tax iceberg, and people who have mortgages and/or cars or other major purchases bought on credit will pay both interest and huge additional sums to insurance companies. It's easy to be making a good deal of income these days, and still not actually own anything, let alone have savings, to say nothing of interest-earning savings.

There will be plenty of bargains for some time. So many cars are needing new owners. It is nice to see there are some willing to pay a good price. With the changes in world events some more folks may find the wonder in having and old car.
Change is inevitable.
Rich

Double post. Sorry.

Even at "top dollar", whether at auction or "market average", a car with a quality restoration is a bargain compared to the cost of restoration.

I think younger owners are not drawn to "old cars" so much these days, because hands-on pulling wrenches, and home repairs of anything have not been their experience, much less open-air slow travel over lazy by-ways. In general they don't have much experience that relates to the Model T "way of life".

All in all, considering the population in this forum, we can likely expect our ranks to be decimated in coming years, and our cars will make for a surplus in the "market".

I for one do not want the ranks to dwindle! (be that the men (and women) who own the cars here, or the car 'population' itself. I am young, and enjoy Model T's immensely. My Late Grandpa originally acquired our three cars, and restored three in his lifetime. They were a 1920 Centerdoor, a 1923 Fordoor (It was either a 23 or 24) and a 1925 Touring. The Fordor was sold in the '80's or 90's, 10 years or more at least before I was born. We also have a 1923 Fire Truck that is all original except for tires, and new wiring that we are currently putting in. (My uncle is teaching me tips and tricks.) Our beloved Touring was not actually originally from the factory. He acquired bits and pieces and made his own car from "scratch." I do not want anything to happen to any of them! When I finally master the Model T, I hope to drive the wheels off of them! I for one, am the opposite, I guess, of my generation. I would like to learn how they work, and someday fix some of the problems we have on our cars, or at least know what is going on with them! I sure do like the saying "Half the speed, Twice the fun." It is quite true! Anyway, I do wish more of my generation was interested in all of the old cars out there, not just the hot rods, or looking at one and thinking "how nice it would be to make that car go 100mph.) It sure is a shame that you cannot make any profit (money that is) off of a Model T restoration. If you could, I suspect more people would be interested in restoring them, just because the money would be out there. I hope to find more people that are interested in carrying on the tradition, and be willing to devote time and money to keeping them on the road.

Oh, I don’t know about the kids being not interested. All four my kids love the cars I have and that includes the girls who learned to drive them as soon as they got a license. All the kids—two boys and two girls— all in their 30s have made friends of like-minded people, some of about the same age, some younger most have their own car. Some own their own cars from the teens to the 30s.
One of my sons bought his own 1925 T runabout. The other kids are waiting until I kick the bucket!

My friend recently bought a car from an online auction in mid-Michigan. Four cars were sold, all roadsters, all black cars built between 1920 and 1925. All four cars sold quickly with prices realized between $10,100 and $13,000. These cars had all set for 12- 15 years or so and had no info with them except that they had been "restored." The buyer was left to figure out what "restored" meant. They look clean but we're going thru my friends car before trying to start it up.

We often have young folks look and ask questions when we are out in our cars. I try to take time to show them things. Now I mention that there are quite a few of these up for grabs if they are ever interested. It seems to register for the moment. Supply and demand will set the prices. The cars will not likely disappear or go without owners.
We can certainly affect how these cars are thought of by getting them out in public and making it look like fun. (whether it is or not )
I am hopeful. Time will tell.
Rich

I also think think time will tell about the future of the old car market and especially the cars that are pre thirties. The pre 30’s cars may become more of a curiosity as time goes on as they already are to some extent.

My neighbor who has a few classic cars he’s restored just got back yesterday from Dallas from a large classic car swap meet and the prices he says are 10-15 % higher for parts and cars.

Model T’s along with other older cars will gradually get higher as time goes by.

If you are considering purchasing a Model T
then choose on that has a fairly recent
documented engine rebuild.

There is an increasing shortage of
Model T engine parts as time passes.

Improved crankshaft availability is uncertain.

That is the foundation of an improved engine rebuild.


FJ

I think that there is an incorrect but common belief that every kid born 40 or more years ago was nuts about cars. I hung around with those who were, but about 90% of the kids who attended the same schools as I could have cared less about them, beyond their transportation value. I honestly don't things have changed that much.
We also tend to like the same sort of stuff that we liked as kids. I liked fast cars and my daily driver is a third-generation Hemi Dodge. I liked racing Buick Nailhead powered cars in the early '60s, and guess what powers my '82 Chevy pickup? 431 cubic inches of Buick Nailhead. And I still love my T Touring car.

Well, it is nice there are some more people out there like me who want to carry it on.
I guess, as long as the new generation of "T" owners have some memories of family or friends driving and maintaining a "family T", or two, or three... they will be more inclined to keep them going for their children.

Anyone that has been to an auction involving these cars can tell you they are not representative of average market value.

I wonder how many auction buyers are looking for a "flip", rather than a "keeper".

I've known of a couple of individuals who put a fair amount of time and treasure into cars for the sole purpose of taking them to auction. Surprised me, I thought they wanted those cars ! No idea if they made any money on the deal.

Steve Jelf wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:03 am

I wouldn't take the bidding at a particular auction as a reliable indication of the market in general. I go to a lot of auctions, and I find that what people are willing to pay varies quite a bit from sale to sale, depending on who's there.

It is hard for me to believe some of the purchase prices that I see people pay for non-brass cars or cars that are not a rare body style. In just my part of Texas, I see so many T';s priced lower than what I have invested in my cars, and one of them was restored when I bought it, but due to a poor engine build, I had to rebuild the engine in it. I see these 'deals' on Craigslist and Facebook Marketplace. I haven't looked in the last week, but I'll post some examples when I see them.

All it takes at an auction is for two people to want the same thing for the price to get stupid. I have seen things sell used at auction for more than what you pay new.

I have seen things sell used at auction for more than what you pay new.

Yep, I've seen that happen more than once. But in most cases auction prices are cheap, sometimes shockingly cheap. Have you priced running board cans lately? A set will most likely cost you hundreds. I bought my three cans for $2 and $3 each at a local auction. Split rim spreader? $1. 26-27 Model T gas tank? Also $1. Currently I'm rebuilding a bedroom. I use one drill for making pilot holes and another for driving the screws. I paid
$5 and $6.50 for the two drills. I love auctions.

WOW! I just found one of the cans on Ebay, its a Model A can, but it is $245 dollars. you must get gas in that one too!
Anyone ever try making their own, even if it was just for decoration?
It seems cheaper than getting one for $245...
Just a thought.