What is it...?
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
-
Topic author - Posts: 1361
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Pharis
- Location: Sacramento CA
What is it...?
Heard a gentle popping noise... and found this?!
-
- Posts: 705
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:01 pm
- First Name: Michael
- Last Name: Pawelek
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1919 Touring, 1925 Coupe
- Location: Brookshire, Texas
- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: What is it...?
Have you been to Area 51 lately?
-
- Posts: 1352
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:20 pm
- First Name: Robert
- Last Name: Jablonski
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Runabout
- Location: New Jersey
- MTFCA Number: 407
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: What is it...?
Where did you find this ...and where were you when it popped off ?!?
-
Topic author - Posts: 1361
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Pharis
- Location: Sacramento CA
Re: What is it...?
That was the first time... here is what happened after a few more tries...
-
- Posts: 4358
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: Tomaso
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1919 Centerdoor, 1924 TT C-Cab Express, 1925 Racer
- Location: Longbranch, WA
- MTFCA Number: 14972
- MTFCI Number: 15411
- Board Member Since: 2001
Re: What is it...?
Spinning up Winfield floats, are we ????????
-
- Posts: 6435
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: What is it...?
metal spinning is one of the few things that really intrigues me that I haven't actually tried yet. I keep having visions of appendages that I'm fond of, flying off over the bench to regions that are hard to get at...
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
Topic author - Posts: 1361
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Pharis
- Location: Sacramento CA
-
- Posts: 644
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:00 am
- First Name: Michael
- Last Name: Peternell
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: TT gas truck, T tractor conversions, '15 touring, '17 speedster, '26 16 valve speedster
- Location: Albany mn
Re: What is it...?
You'll be fine......Scott_Conger wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 11:06 pmmetal spinning is one of the few things that really intrigues me that I haven't actually tried yet. I keep having visions of appendages that I'm fond of, flying off over the bench to regions that are hard to get at...
A saying we have up here in Minnesota when sitting around a campfire drinking.
-
- Posts: 621
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:15 am
- First Name: Andrew
- Last Name: Clary
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Runabout 1926 Coupe. Mercury Speedster #1249
- Location: Usa
- MTFCA Number: 24057
Re: What is it...?
You might need to relieve the mold to allow it to draw more of the skirt. Just a thought.
Andy
Andy
-
Topic author - Posts: 1361
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Pharis
- Location: Sacramento CA
Re: What is it...?
This one was entirely drawn, and is only about .006” thick at the deepest areas. I tried a couple with smaller blank diameters, and they drew in the extra material well. Unfortunately, I wasn’t very good at centering the blank so they didn’t work out. Materials are running thin, so need to be more strategic thru the weekend...
-
- Posts: 381
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:33 am
- First Name: Alan
- Last Name: Long
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 Canadian Touring Car and 1926 Australian built Utility
- Location: Western Australia
Re: What is it...?
It looks like a “Bursting Disc” to me. These are usually made of exotic material and fitted under a Safety Valve.
It’s purpose is to protect the Safety Valve from the harsh aggressive material that could corrode it. If the vessel has a over pressure situation it will blow the disc (as shown). Sometimes only the Disc is used but is a once off pressure relief device.
I’ve been the the Safety Relief Valve Business for many years.
Alan In Western Australia
It’s purpose is to protect the Safety Valve from the harsh aggressive material that could corrode it. If the vessel has a over pressure situation it will blow the disc (as shown). Sometimes only the Disc is used but is a once off pressure relief device.
I’ve been the the Safety Relief Valve Business for many years.
Alan In Western Australia
-
- Posts: 6435
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: What is it...?
Michael, you made me laugh
most of my career was spent working with a bunch of 1st generation Americans of Swedish decent. What you describe is perfect, and as I recall, said with a Scandinavian accent and either preceded or followed by a *burp*, and typically it was anything but fine!
Good times!
most of my career was spent working with a bunch of 1st generation Americans of Swedish decent. What you describe is perfect, and as I recall, said with a Scandinavian accent and either preceded or followed by a *burp*, and typically it was anything but fine!
Good times!
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
- Posts: 4358
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: Tomaso
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1919 Centerdoor, 1924 TT C-Cab Express, 1925 Racer
- Location: Longbranch, WA
- MTFCA Number: 14972
- MTFCI Number: 15411
- Board Member Since: 2001
Re: What is it...?
So, just what the heck do you do in your "spare" time, Kevin ????????
-
Topic author - Posts: 1361
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Pharis
- Location: Sacramento CA
Re: What is it...?
Spare “time”...?! What is this spare “time” you speak of...?
Yesterday was a rare occasion when the wife was at work, the kids were with nana, and work was really quiet. I had 8 uninterrupted hours in the shop, and was able to finish the forming fixture and make bout a dozen parts. Only the 1 shown above turned out without popping, but is most likely too light as the material stretched really thin. I hope to try smaller blanks to allow the skirt to draw into the die, and hopefully this will mean less annealing steps too...
The hydraulic forming creates pressure in all directions and on all surfaces, unlike conventional stamping. So the part is exactly the same size as the die, and the resolution is fantastic. If I can get the annealing steps and blank diameter figured out, I suspect that a new float will be easy to make... someday!
Yesterday was a rare occasion when the wife was at work, the kids were with nana, and work was really quiet. I had 8 uninterrupted hours in the shop, and was able to finish the forming fixture and make bout a dozen parts. Only the 1 shown above turned out without popping, but is most likely too light as the material stretched really thin. I hope to try smaller blanks to allow the skirt to draw into the die, and hopefully this will mean less annealing steps too...
The hydraulic forming creates pressure in all directions and on all surfaces, unlike conventional stamping. So the part is exactly the same size as the die, and the resolution is fantastic. If I can get the annealing steps and blank diameter figured out, I suspect that a new float will be easy to make... someday!
-
- Posts: 4095
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:39 pm
- First Name: Norman
- Last Name: Kling
- Location: Alpine California
Re: What is it...?
There is no measurement of the diameter, but to me it looks like it could be the thrust washer which goes against the differential carrier and the babbit or later bronze washer and the other washer which looks like the one in your picture which is against the housing.
It would need the center cut away and two holes drilled diameterically on each side.
Norm
It would need the center cut away and two holes drilled diameterically on each side.
Norm
-
- Posts: 3384
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:39 am
- First Name: Tim
- Last Name: Morsher
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925TT, 1926 Martin-Parry bodied wagon, 1927 mercury bodied speedster
- Location: Norwalk Ohio
Re: What is it...?
Do you have an air bleed hole, Kevin? Do you anneal a couple times? Copper or brass? Looks great, you’ll get it.
-
Topic author - Posts: 1361
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Pharis
- Location: Sacramento CA
Re: What is it...?
I’m working with brass, and after so many failures I annealed the successful part about 8-10 times! Probably more than required, but I was determined to get a fully formed part. I started with .020” sheet, and the material tends to fracture when stretched to about .008”-.010”. This one finished at .006”, and was obsessively annealed toward the end. I haven’t been able to form a full hemisphere yet, and I suspect that getting the skirt to draw into the die will be necessary for success. Drawing the skirt into the die should also mean less stretching, and so more consistent material thickness and less bursting!
-
Topic author - Posts: 1361
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Pharis
- Location: Sacramento CA
Re: What is it...?
Target weight 22 grams
-
- Posts: 5339
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:09 am
- First Name: Henry
- Last Name: Lee
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Many
- Location: South Pittsburg, TN
- MTFCA Number: 479
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
Re: What is it...?
In my world it is excellent work Kevin.., but with all your time in making the dies, annealing, etc a high speed spin forming from copper or brass sheet would not take a lot of time to master...., just me! An inside pattern of your float dimensions on the chuck of the lathe made from steel, a nice rough surface holding on the live center, and hard maple paddles for the friction push to form rubbed down with canning paraffin.
All the Best,
Hank
All the Best,
Hank
-
Topic author - Posts: 1361
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Pharis
- Location: Sacramento CA
Re: What is it...?
I went down the metal spinning road last year... turns out that .016” brass sheet scares professional metal spinners. All I got back after many months of waiting and multiple no quotes, was inconsistent weight parts with varying interface diameters and overall lengths. The hydraulic forming road was not a first choice, but should produce very high quality parts with minimal size variations
-
Topic author - Posts: 1361
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Pharis
- Location: Sacramento CA
Re: What is it...?
After a quick vinegar bath, it’s ready for solder!
-
- Posts: 5339
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:09 am
- First Name: Henry
- Last Name: Lee
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Many
- Location: South Pittsburg, TN
- MTFCA Number: 479
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
Re: What is it...?
I get it Kevin..., Looks Great! I think I am a dinosaur.
Hank
Hank
-
Topic author - Posts: 1361
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Pharis
- Location: Sacramento CA
Re: What is it...?
I ordered some special vibration resistant “no clean” solder that arrived today. Worked like a charm! I am on size, on weight, and floating... at the right height!
Here is a spun float compared to an original;
And here is the new hydraulically formed float compared to the same spun float (not sure where my original went);
All shined up;
Here is a spun float compared to an original;
And here is the new hydraulically formed float compared to the same spun float (not sure where my original went);
All shined up;
-
- Posts: 6435
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: What is it...?
Impressive stuff, Kevin
just lovely!
there are some really talented folks on this forum, and I appreciate their willingness to share both success as well as some of the bumps and bruises along the way.
Finally, in all honesty, your thread title does not do you justice (I was drawn in by authorship, not subject description).
just lovely!
there are some really talented folks on this forum, and I appreciate their willingness to share both success as well as some of the bumps and bruises along the way.
Finally, in all honesty, your thread title does not do you justice (I was drawn in by authorship, not subject description).
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
Topic author - Posts: 1361
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Pharis
- Location: Sacramento CA
Re: What is it...?
Thanks for the kind words Scott! In all honestly, when I started this thread... I wasn’t confident that I would progress beyond the “burst disk” phase
I’m still not “on top” of the process here. I received more material today, and will continue to experiment with annealing intervals, material thicknesses, blank diameters, etc... Hope to iron something out soon as brass sheet is noticeably affecting my wallet!
I’m still not “on top” of the process here. I received more material today, and will continue to experiment with annealing intervals, material thicknesses, blank diameters, etc... Hope to iron something out soon as brass sheet is noticeably affecting my wallet!
-
- Posts: 6435
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: What is it...?
As someone who goes through a lot of brass, and has to have it shipped in, to boot, I can very much appreciate your wallet-pain on buying that sheet stuff!
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
- Posts: 4095
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:39 pm
- First Name: Norman
- Last Name: Kling
- Location: Alpine California
Re: What is it...?
Wow! Steve was right. I was very wrong.
Norm
Norm
-
- Posts: 3384
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:39 am
- First Name: Tim
- Last Name: Morsher
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925TT, 1926 Martin-Parry bodied wagon, 1927 mercury bodied speedster
- Location: Norwalk Ohio
Re: What is it...?
Beautiful ! It’s great to see someone take on a challenge, not because it’s easy, but because it’s hard!
-
Topic author - Posts: 1361
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Pharis
- Location: Sacramento CA
Re: What is it...?
I wouldn’t say that this project falls into the “hard” category... but sure didn’t fall into the “easy” category either! Is there an “approach with extreme caution” category...?
-
Topic author - Posts: 1361
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Pharis
- Location: Sacramento CA
Re: What is it...?
Taaaaa Daaaaaa!
-
- Posts: 6435
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: What is it...?
Gorgeous
you had mentioned "vibration proof" solder. I spent 33 years in manufacturing with many of those years in electronics that were destined for severe environment. The vibration and G loads we placed on things on Unholt-Dickey vibration equipment would blow your mind. I never heard of "vibration proof" solder in those years. Our products survived rocket launches and howitzer fire, so the joints were pretty vibration proof. I'm telling you all of this, because I believe you'd be well served with the same eutectic solder, 63/37, and RMA flux that we used. Nothing needs post-flow cleaning, is the very lowest melting point solder there is, with almost no plastic state...it is either solid or it flows. I believe it would be ideal for your work and ought to consider it if it is not what you're using now.
thank you for sharing your results.
for me, the creativity and critical problem solving of this part eclipses the impressive CNC work you've shown. Two entirely different mediums requiring two entirely different skill sets...both impressive, but this for me, is moreso.
you had mentioned "vibration proof" solder. I spent 33 years in manufacturing with many of those years in electronics that were destined for severe environment. The vibration and G loads we placed on things on Unholt-Dickey vibration equipment would blow your mind. I never heard of "vibration proof" solder in those years. Our products survived rocket launches and howitzer fire, so the joints were pretty vibration proof. I'm telling you all of this, because I believe you'd be well served with the same eutectic solder, 63/37, and RMA flux that we used. Nothing needs post-flow cleaning, is the very lowest melting point solder there is, with almost no plastic state...it is either solid or it flows. I believe it would be ideal for your work and ought to consider it if it is not what you're using now.
thank you for sharing your results.
for me, the creativity and critical problem solving of this part eclipses the impressive CNC work you've shown. Two entirely different mediums requiring two entirely different skill sets...both impressive, but this for me, is moreso.
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
-
Topic author - Posts: 1361
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Pharis
- Location: Sacramento CA
Re: What is it...?
Anti vibration was how it was advertised... it is a 63/37 with no rinse rosin core. It worked great on the other 2 SR floats, I got a bit carried away with the heat this time, so let it cool down, and the solder flowed fine for all but the original hot spot. It sealed up fine, but has a few sloppy solder spots. Not too shabby for the first few parts tho!
-
- Posts: 1565
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:46 am
- First Name: Dennis
- Last Name: Seth
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1922 Coupe 1927 Touring
- Location: Jefferson Ohio
Re: What is it...?
Kevin,
Those are very nice...did they fall off of a monkey on a cold day?
Those are very nice...did they fall off of a monkey on a cold day?
1922 Coupe & 1927 Touring
-
Topic author - Posts: 1361
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Pharis
- Location: Sacramento CA
Re: What is it...?
perry kete wrote: ↑Thu May 19, 2022 3:23 pmKevin,
Those are very nice...did they fall off of a monkey on a cold day?
Sure did! Good thing the are non-sparking
-
- Posts: 1431
- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:53 pm
- First Name: Rob
- Last Name: Heyen
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Models B, F, K, N, Ford racer and 3 Model T
- Location: Eastern Nebraska
Re: What is it...?
Kevin, you are a craftsman. Thank you for posting.
-
Topic author - Posts: 1361
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:54 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Pharis
- Location: Sacramento CA
Re: What is it...?
Must be doing sumpin right! Didn’t have any failures this afternoon, and so will yield 8 complete floats. I switched from MAP gas to propane, and am no longer overheating the brass during the annealing steps. This combined with smaller forming increments is producing very consistent parts.
I trimmed the first few by hand... and it was tedious! So am now scheming on a fixture to trim all these more reliably. The heavy lifting will have to wait tho, I have to get the rebuilt Ruxtell painted and installed in my ‘15 for a tour next month. Have a Winfield S-AA updraft to replace the U&J carb too...
I trimmed the first few by hand... and it was tedious! So am now scheming on a fixture to trim all these more reliably. The heavy lifting will have to wait tho, I have to get the rebuilt Ruxtell painted and installed in my ‘15 for a tour next month. Have a Winfield S-AA updraft to replace the U&J carb too...
-
- Posts: 621
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:15 am
- First Name: Andrew
- Last Name: Clary
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Runabout 1926 Coupe. Mercury Speedster #1249
- Location: Usa
- MTFCA Number: 24057
Re: What is it...?
Looks like you’ll need to build some more carbs to use up those floats.
Andy
Andy