Can of worms officially opened

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
Jonah D'Avella
Posts: 686
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:00 am
First Name: Jonah
Last Name: D'Avella
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Touring
Location: Kingsport TN
Board Member Since: 2020

Can of worms officially opened

Post by Jonah D'Avella » Mon May 16, 2022 9:25 am

What have your experiences with marvel's mystery oil been?
F: first F: find
O: on O: oil
R: race R: revive
D: day D: drive
Jonahdavella@gmail.com


mtntee20
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:51 pm
First Name: Terry & Sharon
Last Name: Miller
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1920 Center Door, 1920 TTWood cab Farm Truck with cable dump grain bed, 1920 TT C-Cab with express bed, 1927 Wood body Dairy Delivery truck
Location: Westminster, CO
MTFCA Number: 32583
Board Member Since: 2017

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by mtntee20 » Mon May 16, 2022 9:39 am

Jonah,

Like everything else, MMO has it's place and places where it should not be. Many here use it and many here loathe it. You WILL get both of their opinions since you have asked.

I have used MMO for many years although I have not used it on our Ts......yet. I may if I find it would be the best option.

Good Luck,
Terry


John Codman
Posts: 1181
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:27 am
First Name: John
Last Name: Codman
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Youring
Location: Naples, FL 34120

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by John Codman » Mon May 16, 2022 9:46 am

I find it excellent for lubricating air-powered tools - some even come with it. I also have used it for freeing up long frozen (seized) engines.


Playswithbrass
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:35 pm
First Name: Peter
Last Name: McIntyre
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1913 Speedster
Location: Aylmer,Ontario

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Playswithbrass » Mon May 16, 2022 9:52 am

Jonah, you have found the best use for MMO. To start a very opinionated discussion on a public automobile forum.

User avatar

MKossor
Posts: 458
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:30 pm
First Name: Mike
Last Name: Kossor
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Touring
Location: Kenilworth, NJ 07033
MTFCI Number: 22706

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by MKossor » Mon May 16, 2022 9:56 am

I tried it as Model T engine oil additive (a few oz) because I read of potential benefiits, BIG mistake! Developed Immediate brake band chatter, especially during the last few feet coming to each and every stop. Had to change the oil several times before the band chatter improved but never completely stopped.
I-Timer + ECCT Adjusted Coils = Best Model T Engine Performance Possible!
www.modeltitimer.com www.modeltecct.com

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 3296
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Board Member Since: 2000
Contact:

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by DanTreace » Mon May 16, 2022 10:27 am

Only have used MMO in the gas tank, per label 4oz to 10gal.

About every 3rd fill up. Perhaps helps the valve stems from sticking, those exhaust valves are prone to that. Haven’t seen less carbon buildup on piston tops or cylinder head dome, but like to use it.

With todays different seasonal fuel blends that add driers and such, plus that dang ethanol, think a fuel related top end oil is useful on our T’s.

Main ingredient is wintergreen oil, sure makes the fuel and exhaust smell nice!
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford

User avatar

Rich Eagle
Posts: 6789
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:51 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Eagle
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1909 TR 1914 TR 1915 Rd 1920 Spdstr 1922 Coupe 1925 Tudor
Location: Idaho Falls, ID
MTFCA Number: 1219
Contact:

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon May 16, 2022 11:46 am

I particularly like the logo on the old metal cans, Either round or rectangular is nice.
I have used it but don't remember the results being spectacular.
I'm sad to see it in plastic bottles. :(
Rich
When did I do that?


DHort
Posts: 2461
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:30 pm
First Name: Dave
Last Name: Hjortnaes
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Speedster, 20 touring
Location: Men Falls, WI
MTFCA Number: 28762
MTFCI Number: 22402

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by DHort » Mon May 16, 2022 12:27 pm

When I picked up my new engine I was advised to add 4oz to every 10 gal. Makes sense for breaking in a new engine. A little lubrication if it wasnt burnt off. Did I notice anything -no. But I am not an expert.

User avatar

Tim Rogers
Posts: 387
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:04 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Rogers
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 Coupe & 1923 Runabout
Location: South of the Adirondacks
Board Member Since: 2013

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Tim Rogers » Mon May 16, 2022 12:37 pm

Jonah- decide for yourself. Research the substances below and let us know what value they would add to your engine...

mmo.JPG
<o><o><o><o> Tim Rogers - South of the Adirondacks - Forum member since 2013 <o><o><o><o>


Jerry VanOoteghem
Posts: 2946
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:06 pm
First Name: Jerry
Last Name: Van
Location: S.E. Michigan
MTFCA Number: 24868

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Mon May 16, 2022 12:38 pm

Had a "friend" put some in the gas tank of my 1924 Buick years ago. Huge mistake! Screwed up the carburetor for the next several years! Sticky caked on varnish that would not quit, despite multiple cleanings and chiseling away the build-up. Even after running through several tanks of gas, the problem still lingered. Admittedly, the "friend" put in way too much, but after dealing with the outcome I never want to see that stuff again!


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by TXGOAT2 » Mon May 16, 2022 1:21 pm

I've used it for decades with good results. I've never seen any indication of it causing any harm. It was a very useful product in the days of non-detergent, single grade motor oils and non-detergent gasolines. It still has its uses. I've had success using it in old, sludged engines to free up sticky rings and noisey hydraulic valve lifters. It appears to be helpful in freeing engines that have become stuck from long periods of non-use. It will not effect mechanical repairs, and neither will any other oil or fuel additive.


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by TXGOAT2 » Mon May 16, 2022 1:23 pm

I don't think Marvel oil would gum up your carburetor, even if you filled the gas tank with straight Marvel Oil and ran the car until it stalled, then let it sit for ten years.


speedytinc
Posts: 3838
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
MTFCA Number: 14383
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by speedytinc » Mon May 16, 2022 1:36 pm

TXGOAT2 wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 1:23 pm
I don't think Marvel oil would gum up your carburetor, even if you filled the gas tank with straight Marvel Oil and ran the car until it stalled, then let it sit for ten years.
I have heard of it not being compatible with this poison we have here used as motor fuel. This was 15 or so years ago. FWIW.
I do use ATF as cylinder & valve lubrication.


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by TXGOAT2 » Mon May 16, 2022 1:53 pm

I've used Marvel Oil in E10 gasoline off and on for many years with no ill effects. I have never used it with E85, and that might need some checking into. I've used it in small engines, larger carbureted engines, Ford Powerstroke and GMC Duramax diesel engines, and fuel-injected gasoline engines. Speaking of diesel engines, I believe that MMO would be a good thing to add to ultra-low sulphur diesel fuel used in older engines with mechanical injection pumps.

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon May 16, 2022 11:32 pm

I have a friend who recommends the stuff, but he's also a diabetic smoker who gives health advice. :)
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


Joe Bell
Posts: 1052
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:20 pm
First Name: Joe
Last Name: Bell
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Fordor
Location: Tiffin Ohio
MTFCI Number: 24066

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Joe Bell » Tue May 17, 2022 6:54 am

My original thoughts was Snake oil, but will say it has changed, I fly an older aircraft, Franklin engine that is lower compression than Lycoming problem is the 100 LL fuel is a lead additive and with lower compression the lead builds up on everything, have added it to my fuel and compression has raised 15lbs on each cylinder, so I guess I can not call it Snake oil anymore! There is lots of pilots that use it with confidents!


Joe Bell
Posts: 1052
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:20 pm
First Name: Joe
Last Name: Bell
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Fordor
Location: Tiffin Ohio
MTFCI Number: 24066

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Joe Bell » Tue May 17, 2022 6:55 am

There is an STC for the use in aircraft also, so it must do some good??

User avatar

mbowen
Posts: 333
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:45 pm
First Name: Miles
Last Name: Bowen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 Express Wagon, 1924 Touring
Location: Brighton, MI
MTFCA Number: 51651
MTFCI Number: 25343
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by mbowen » Tue May 17, 2022 12:16 pm

Joe Bell wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 6:55 am
There is an STC for the use in aircraft also, so it must do some good??
MMO is just as big a can of worms in the aviation hobby as it is here. I’ve never heard of a supplemental type certificate to run it airplanes; people I know who use it just use it. Is the STC for fuel or oil or both?
Miles
1924 Touring “Bonnie”
1925 Express Wagon “Clyde”


Jerry VanOoteghem
Posts: 2946
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:06 pm
First Name: Jerry
Last Name: Van
Location: S.E. Michigan
MTFCA Number: 24868

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Tue May 17, 2022 12:46 pm

TXGOAT2 wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 1:23 pm
I don't think Marvel oil would gum up your carburetor, even if you filled the gas tank with straight Marvel Oil and ran the car until it stalled, then let it sit for ten years.
All I can tell you is what happened.


Rich P. Bingham
Posts: 1376
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:24 am
First Name: Rich
Last Name: Bingham
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Rich P. Bingham » Tue May 17, 2022 12:52 pm

Steve Jelf wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 11:32 pm
I have a friend who recommends the stuff, but he's also a diabetic smoker who gives health advice. :)
Steve, you are presenting a logical fallacy ! :lol: (two, actually)
Get a horse !

User avatar

DLodge
Posts: 594
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:14 pm
First Name: Dick
Last Name: Lodge
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring
Location: St. Louis MO
MTFCA Number: 19659
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by DLodge » Tue May 17, 2022 12:58 pm

I have always thought the name alone was reason enough to use it."Marvel Mystery Oil." What's not to like about that? :D


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by TXGOAT2 » Tue May 17, 2022 1:04 pm

I've used MMO for about 60 years. I've found it useful for de-gumming mechanical devices, among many other uses. It does a very good job of cleaning out air tools that have been used on a wet, sludgy air line. I've never observed any indication of gumming or corrosion from contact with MMO on any kind of metal, whether short term or long term. I've kept some opened, partially-used containers Of MMO around for years, and it has shown no tendency to decay or thicken. I've had consistently good results using MMO, where appropriate. Rislone is another good product that can be useful when dealing with old engines, espcially those suffering from poor maintenence and/or long storage.


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by TXGOAT2 » Tue May 17, 2022 1:05 pm

...and by gosh, it smells pretty!


jeffstag
Posts: 131
Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:53 pm
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Versteeg
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '27 TT, '25 TT, '23 Fordor, '23 Touring
Location: Petersburg, MI
Contact:

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by jeffstag » Tue May 17, 2022 1:19 pm

A friend of mine here at work had some sent out for analysis, turns out is just Automatic Transmission Fluid. Now whenever I feel I need MMO, I just substitute less expensive ATF
23 Touring
23 Fordor
25 TT
27 TT


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by TXGOAT2 » Tue May 17, 2022 1:56 pm

MMO was around long before ATF, so maybe ATF is MMO... ATF, such as the Ford Type F, and older GM formulations, has long been used to free up gummed, noisy hydraulic valve lifters. Late model, synthetic ATF formulations may not be as versatile.

User avatar

Barth_Tool_Co
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:10 pm
First Name: Jason
Last Name: Alvord
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '26 Touring
Location: Saginaw, MI.

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Barth_Tool_Co » Tue May 17, 2022 2:36 pm

Rich Eagle wrote:
Mon May 16, 2022 11:46 am
I particularly like the logo on the old metal cans, I'm sad to see it in plastic bottles. :(
Rich
Same here, I actually transfer it from the new plastic bottles into the old metal cans before use. Call me a traditional purist!
... and my number is Beechwood 4-5789
1926 Touring - "Corrina"


Jerry VanOoteghem
Posts: 2946
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:06 pm
First Name: Jerry
Last Name: Van
Location: S.E. Michigan
MTFCA Number: 24868

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Tue May 17, 2022 2:42 pm

jeffstag wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 1:19 pm
A friend of mine here at work had some sent out for analysis, turns out is just Automatic Transmission Fluid. Now whenever I feel I need MMO, I just substitute less expensive ATF
Jeff,

I've often wondered if Kroil, "The Oil That Creeps", is not also just ATF.

https://www.kroil.com/

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 6463
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Steve Jelf » Wed May 18, 2022 10:49 am

I've often wondered if Kroil, "The Oil That Creeps", is not also just ATF.

Actually, ATF/Acetone is said to be better.

Penetrants.jpg
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 3296
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Board Member Since: 2000
Contact:

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by DanTreace » Wed May 18, 2022 12:41 pm

Have seen that test posted before, wonder what a 'scientifically rusted environment' was created?

Have tried that mix of Acetone/ATF and didn't work well. Wasn't what the results I get with Aero Kroil, the Aero comes in an aerosol can, and sure is convenient to 'spray' with the tiny nozzle right where you are working on that 100 year old rusted T fastener!

The mixture had to be poured and just ran off, and the mixture evaporated very fast, even in a jar. Guess if you have the piece apart from the chassis and could soak it for hours, then may be useful to someone. For me, the spray can is the best, can shoot it in any angle, upside down, and get the penetrate to the right spot. Clearing the fastener openings, with a wire brush first, so that the gap between fasteners is suitable for the penetrate, it won't cut through dirt and caked grease.


I'll stick with Aero Kroil, the best I have used over the years on T parts and pieces!


100_8650 (640x480).jpg
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


John Codman
Posts: 1181
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:27 am
First Name: John
Last Name: Codman
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Youring
Location: Naples, FL 34120

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by John Codman » Wed May 18, 2022 12:54 pm

mbowen wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 12:16 pm
Joe Bell wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 6:55 am
There is an STC for the use in aircraft also, so it must do some good??
MMO is just as big a can of worms in the aviation hobby as it is here. I’ve never heard of a supplemental type certificate to run it airplanes; people I know who use it just use it. Is the STC for fuel or oil or both?
Running a non-TSO'd or STC'd product in an aircraft could lead to huge liability for you. Unless the engine manufacturer and the aircraft manufacturer both approve it, you should definitely not run it. About the last aircraft built with a factory Franklin engine was the Bell 47. Whether the manufacturer of your aircraft is still around I don't know, but has every single component of your aircraft's fuel system been tested for compatibility with MMO? I doubt it. There is a reason for the FAA approval process.
Last edited by John Codman on Thu May 19, 2022 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.


John Codman
Posts: 1181
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:27 am
First Name: John
Last Name: Codman
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Youring
Location: Naples, FL 34120

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by John Codman » Wed May 18, 2022 12:57 pm

Steve Jelf wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 10:49 am
I've often wondered if Kroil, "The Oil That Creeps", is not also just ATF.

Actually, ATF/Acetone is said to be better.


Penetrants.jpg
I too have seen that study. It should be remembered that WD-40 was never intended to be a penetrating oil. The WD stands for Water Displacement.

User avatar

Charlie B in N.J.
Posts: 638
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:40 am
First Name: CHARLIE
Last Name: BRANCA
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: "27 Tudor / "23 Touring
Location: Brick N.J.
MTFCA Number: 28967
Board Member Since: 2010

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Charlie B in N.J. » Wed May 18, 2022 1:11 pm

Nice to see so many guys pretty much calling snake oil snake oil. Quite refreshing actually. Pour it in the engine and you’re just thinning the engine oil. Pour it in the fuel tank and it’s so totally thinned out that it blows right past everything and goes out the tail pipe.
Forget everything you thought you knew.


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by TXGOAT2 » Wed May 18, 2022 1:14 pm

Dry and rusty fasteners, such as body bolts, may respond well to a mix of detergent and lemon juice. I've read that heating a rusted fastener to several hundred degrees and applying beef tallow is helpful. I'd think lard would give a similar result. Pickling vinegar and lard, whipped to a paste, might be good.


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by TXGOAT2 » Wed May 18, 2022 1:31 pm

Added to gasoline, MMO and similar products tend to accumulate in small amounts on intake valve stems, which can be beneficial. They can also provide extra lubrication to piston rings, especially the top and seconnd ring, and can help free stuck rings. MMO can help clean and free clogged oil rings. I've had excellent results with MMO in quieting noisy hydraulic lifters in old engines. MMO burns very clean. When used as directed, when appropriate, it can be quite useful. The various STP-type oil thickening products can be useful in worn engines. They can reduce oil burning and mechanical noises and give better overall performance. They can support oil pressure in worn engines running in hot weather. Such products must be used with caution in splash lubricated engines in cold weather, and they can contribute to clutch drag in Model Ts and other vehicles with multi-disk wet clutches. As far as I know, purchases and use of these products has yet to be mandated. I choose to use them, on a limited basis, and I have had generally good results. MMO is one of the lower-priced products of this sort, and, in my opinion, among the most useful. Products than contain moly sulphide, graphite, teflon, and so forth are probably not good for use in Model T engines. They could cause issues with transmission and brake bands, and possibly with the clutch and the magneto. I don't use moly grease on my Model T U-joint, since some of it could find its way into the transmission.


Joe Bell
Posts: 1052
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:20 pm
First Name: Joe
Last Name: Bell
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Fordor
Location: Tiffin Ohio
MTFCI Number: 24066

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Joe Bell » Wed May 18, 2022 5:21 pm

John, I agree with you when I heard it from my IA, it is a 1946 Franklin after running this for a hundred hours in the last year I noticed compression dropping, I added the snake oil and after one tank through it the compression came up on the cylinders by 15lbs. the plane even felt to have more power, so it was proven to me? I am all about safety and fuel, I can run non ethanel fuel in it but will stick to the 100LL at least I know it is regulated!


Joe Bell
Posts: 1052
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:20 pm
First Name: Joe
Last Name: Bell
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Fordor
Location: Tiffin Ohio
MTFCI Number: 24066

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Joe Bell » Wed May 18, 2022 5:23 pm

John, just fuel.

User avatar

Duey_C
Posts: 1518
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:28 pm
First Name: Duane
Last Name: Cooley
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 18 Runabout, 24 Runabout for 20yrs, 25 TT, late Center Door project, open express pickup
Location: central MN
MTFCA Number: 32488
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Duey_C » Thu May 19, 2022 2:48 am

It is an excellent de-gumming agent. It will wake up 70 yr old Diesel fuel pump plungers as stated above. In a moment or less.
Vroom! Maybe valve stems too?
I happen to be not scared of this snake oil as some say. I don't know if it's Kero. I don't think so.
ATF has little lubricating properties according to some anymore. They say: Lube? Use two cycle oil.
Gosh, I sound like a troll. Not intended. Sorry folks.
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated


Jerry VanOoteghem
Posts: 2946
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:06 pm
First Name: Jerry
Last Name: Van
Location: S.E. Michigan
MTFCA Number: 24868

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Thu May 19, 2022 11:12 am

Duey_C wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 2:48 am

ATF has little lubricating properties according to some anymore.
So, to those "some", I would ask what then is lubricating our automatic transmissions? :)


John Codman
Posts: 1181
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:27 am
First Name: John
Last Name: Codman
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Youring
Location: Naples, FL 34120

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by John Codman » Thu May 19, 2022 2:23 pm

Sssh! Please don't tell the 163,000 mile automatic transmission in my Dodge that it has been running on a fluid with little lubricating properties.

User avatar

TRDxB2
Posts: 5407
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:56 pm
First Name: Frank
Last Name: Brandi
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Speedster (1919 w 1926)
Location: Moline IL
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by TRDxB2 » Thu May 19, 2022 3:52 pm

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Mystery_Oil
The Marvel Oil Company (also known as Marvel Carburetor Company; Marvel-Schebler Carburetors since 1928) was founded by Burt Pierce in 1923. After World War I, the company produced carburetors for automobiles and aircraft. Some of these encountered problems with clogged jets, prompting Pierce to formulate a blend of chemicals and petroleum to clean and maintain them. Marvel claims the oil creates a top ring seal producing higher compression, preventing blow-by on power strokes, resulting in more power. Supporting evidence is not provided.

The Marvel Oil Company was initially based in Chicago, moved to New York in 1941 and was purchased by Turtle Wax Inc. in 1999, returning to Chicago.

According to the company, the name Mystery Oil comes from Pierce's answer to the question, "what kind of oil is this?" to which Pierce would respond, "It's a mystery!" Composition

According to the company's 2015 safety data sheet Marvel Mystery Oil is composed of:
Petroleum distillates (hydrotreated heavy naphthenic) also known as mineral oil, 60–100%[3]
Petroleum distillates (Stoddard solvent) also known as white spirit, 10–30%[3]
Tricresyl phosphate, an antiwear and extreme pressure additive in lubricants 0.1–1.0%[3]
Ortho-dichlorobenzene, a softening and removing agent for carbon-based contamination on metal surfaces, 0.1–1.0%[3]
Para-dichlorobenzene, a precursor used in the production of chemically and thermally resistant polymers, <0.1%[3]

In an NTSB post aircraft accident investigation published in 2003, it was reported that Marvel Mystery Oil was composed of 74 percent mineral oil, 25 percent stoddard solvent, and 1 percent lard. "N5428H Incident Report Narrative NYC02LA181". National Transportation Safety Board. October 17, 2003. Retrieved March 13, 2016.

Claims

Marvel Mystery Oil marketing literature claims benefits which include improved lubricating qualities, primarily cleaning and friction reduction capabilities. The product has previously been marketed as a fuel additive in all kinds of engines, including aircraft (although the company no longer markets it for the latter application on their website). It has also been used as an oil additive, corrosion inhibitor, penetrating oil, and in automatic transmissions as a leak stopper and seal relubricator.[5] Supporting evidence for claimed benefits is not provided by the manufacturer.

The lubricant was used as a fuel additive in a Lycoming aircraft engine which was specifically cautioned against oil additives (Service Instruction No. 1014M, which also stated its use would void the warranty) which suffered catastrophic damage during take-off. The NTSB listed the probable cause of the accident as "The improper use of [a] fuel additive which resulted in a power loss."

Auto manufacturers Ford and GM recommend against using engine oil additives, stating they are unnecessary in their contemporary engine designs and may void their warranties.

Stoddard solvent
Synonyms & Trade Names
Dry cleaning safety solvent, Mineral spirits, Petroleum solvent, Spotting naphtha [Note: A refined petroleum solvent with a flash point of 102-110°F, boiling point of 309-396°F, and containing >65% C10 or higher hydrocarbons.]
ortho-dichlorobenzene, is an organic compound. It is a non-polar colorless liquid that is miscible in most organic solvents. This derivative of benzene differs from the parent compound by the presence of two adjacent chlorine atoms. 1,2-dichlorobenzene is used as a precursor for agrochemicals, as a solvent for fullerenes, as an insecticide and as an agent to remove carbon-based contamination from metal.
Paradichlorobenzene is a synthetic, white crystalline solid that is practically insoluble in water and soluble in ether, chloroform, carbon disulfide, benzene, alcohol and acetone. It is used primarily as a space deodorant in products such as room deodorizers, urinal and toilet bowl blocks, and as an insecticide fumigant for moth control.When 1,4-dichlorobenzene is heated to decomposition, toxic gases and vapors (such as hydrochloric acid and carbon monoxide) are released.
The primary route of potential human exposure to this compound is inhalation. Acute inhalation exposure to 1,4-dichlorobenzene can result in coughing and breathing difficulties. Breathing high levels of this chemical can cause headaches, dizziness and liver damage. Contact with 1,4-dichlorobenzene can irritate the eyes, leading to burning and tearing. It is reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by TXGOAT2 » Thu May 19, 2022 4:04 pm

Marvel Schebler carburetors are known Russian agents!

User avatar

Craig Leach
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:22 am
First Name: craig
Last Name: leach
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1919 Firetruck/1922 Speedster
Location: Laveen Az
MTFCA Number: 26647

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Craig Leach » Fri May 20, 2022 12:27 pm

Hi Jonah,
I will see your can of worms & raise you a Ampco oiler to lube the Judson.
Craig.
1922 supercharger1.jpg
1922 supercharger1.jpg (30.09 KiB) Viewed 3159 times

User avatar

Rich Eagle
Posts: 6789
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:51 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Eagle
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1909 TR 1914 TR 1915 Rd 1920 Spdstr 1922 Coupe 1925 Tudor
Location: Idaho Falls, ID
MTFCA Number: 1219
Contact:

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Rich Eagle » Fri May 20, 2022 12:53 pm

Where can I get one of those?
When did I do that?


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by TXGOAT2 » Fri May 20, 2022 1:01 pm

Marvel also sold an oiler, which I believe they called the "Marvel Inverse Oiler".


Chuck Regan
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:58 am
First Name: Chuck
Last Name: Regan
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Roadster Pickup
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
MTFCA Number: 50122
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Chuck Regan » Fri May 20, 2022 2:15 pm

The dashboard portion of the Marvel Mystery Inverse Oiler…
Attachments
02412CDE-9B55-407B-87F9-F12BDAA7FBE5.jpeg

User avatar

varmint
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:02 pm
First Name: Vernon
Last Name: Worley
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: October 26, 1926 Coupe
Location: New Orleans, LA
MTFCA Number: 49462
Contact:

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by varmint » Fri May 20, 2022 10:05 pm

13 AA MMO.jpg
Vern (Vieux Carre)

User avatar

Craig Leach
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:22 am
First Name: craig
Last Name: leach
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1919 Firetruck/1922 Speedster
Location: Laveen Az
MTFCA Number: 26647

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Craig Leach » Fri May 20, 2022 11:06 pm

Rich,
George at Judsonguru has them gdfolchi@yahoo.com They come in the original box with yellowed paper instructions he has a bunch of different styles.
He is very helpful.
Craig.

User avatar

Craig Leach
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:22 am
First Name: craig
Last Name: leach
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1919 Firetruck/1922 Speedster
Location: Laveen Az
MTFCA Number: 26647

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Craig Leach » Sat May 21, 2022 12:06 am

More info on oilers.
Ampco lubricators LLC George B. Folchi phone (860) 355- 5706 Fax (845) 635- 8442 P.O. Box 1468, New Milford, CT 06776 www.ampcolubes.com
Craig.

User avatar

Duey_C
Posts: 1518
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:28 pm
First Name: Duane
Last Name: Cooley
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 18 Runabout, 24 Runabout for 20yrs, 25 TT, late Center Door project, open express pickup
Location: central MN
MTFCA Number: 32488
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: Can of worms officially opened

Post by Duey_C » Sat May 21, 2022 2:14 am

I had said: ATF has little lubricating properties according to some anymore.
Jerry and John replied:
"So, to those "some", I would ask what then is lubricating our automatic transmissions? :)"
"Sssh! Please don't tell the 163,000 mile automatic transmission in my Dodge that it has been running on a fluid with little lubricating properties."

Me: Ain't that the truth! Bazillions of miles simply using ATF in transmissions.
Maw put 248,500 on her '11 Traverse and it was still goin' without a hitch in its giddy-up. I think her '14 is around 130,000 now.
My '05 pickup has 163,000 and if the computer thinks something is wrong with a bunch of things, shut it off, open the door, close it, start it back up and no problem. Vehicles are silly but they work.
I don't think the Traverses have a dipstick to check the ATF level! The owners manual tells something like that and don't change the ATF.
I 'spose where I was coming from was the older IH Diesel community where they've seen a change over the years when old ATF was the go-to to add to Diesel fuel to keep gum away. Perhaps Diesel has gotten even dryer more like JP-8 or so.
Glad to be outed and appreciate your good natures. I blabber too much tho.
:)
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic