1925 Roadster Curtains

[namdc3]

There's quite a bit of good information on side curtains in the forum history, but I have a few specific questions. In the link below, Larry identifies that the eyelets along the back bow should be round instead of common sense eyelets. In the touring diagram on the door curtain, it seems the top eyelet is actually a separate piece (strip) that stays connected to the top when the door is opened, the middle is a common sense joint that must point to the inside of the car to unhook to open the door, and the bottom is shown as two common sense eyelets - so there must be a long male common sense fastener on the outside of the car. This is perhaps on the body arm rest area. The widely proliferated photos of Larry's pickup don't have a male common sense fastener there, so I'm assuming I'm not understanding this joint correctly or the photos were taken before side curtains (and fasteners) were fitted. Back to the top of the door, it appears in the touring diagram that the door part of the curtain is on the outside of the upper strip, which doesn't make sense to me from a water perspective. It seems like that strip should be pushed over the top of the door curtain, but it doesn't appear the curtain design accommodates that.

In short, I'm finding the details of all this rather confusing. Perhaps someone has detailed photos of Larry's pickup curtain fasteners or photos of another "original" setup. Please help un-confuse me.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/41 ... 1391271521

[Original Smith]

I'm out of town for a few days, so will comment later. The rear curtains have eyelets, because they are fastened between the top and the top socket.
I made mine from nos originals, and Ford prints.

[namdc3]

Thanks, Larry. I look forward to your comments. I agree that the eyelets make sense, and I can see where they'd go over the studs, sandwiched between the socket and top. The joints between the front and rear curtains, particularly on the passenger (right) side, are where most of my questions lie. Also, I assume the upper front corner might snap to the top's flap the goes over the front of the windshield. I take it that only the 26-27 had a rod in the door curtain, so the door curtain on a 25 must fasten to the rear curtain, as indicated in the linked touring diagram. I also assume the center fastener points inward and the lower fastener attaches one or both curtains to the body behind the door. I'm pretty deep in assumptions, so I'll quit and let you fill in the details when you get back. Thanks, again.

[namdc3]

BTT now that Larry is back. Others, feel free to chime in - not meaning to exclude other comments/opinions/facts.

[Jim, Sr.]

Here are photos of NOS original side curtains that we have. I can only post 5 photos in a posting, so first I will show the right side.

[Jim, Sr.]

Here is the left side.

[Jim, Sr.]

Here is another variation of the left side. The hand hole is located further ahead. Maybe it is easier to get an arm out to make arm signals for turning???? Or, if you are crank starting, maybe it is easier to reach in to adjust the spark and gas levers????

[namdc3]

Great photos! It seems odd that there's no common sense eyelet at the upper rear corner of the left side front panel, as that would be sandwiched between the top bow and the upper front corner of the left side rear panel. It seems like the bow would have a double-height male fastener there to accept both layers, but it appears the front panel doesn't have an eyelet.

[CudaMan]

Wow, great pictures! I also note that there seems to be no fastener down at the lower rear corner, seems like it would flap in the breeze and be somewhat drafty.

[namdc3]

I agree, and the other thing I'm not understanding is the top of the door arrangement. It appears that the fastener half-way up the door is the only thing that holds the rear of the door curtain up, so the top rear corner of the door would fold down. It also seems like the end (rear) of that upper strip would have an eyelet to hold it up similar to my comments on the left-hand side curtain. I'm sure there's just something I'm not fully seeing/understanding about how the door curtain works.

[Original Smith]

Here is something you must be aware of. Many of the roadster side curtains are labeled 1925 roadster. They are not. They are for a 1926. The ones you must get are the ones that say 22-25 on the tags like Jim posted.
Ford must have had a fixture for aligning the bows before everything was assembled. How else could you assume that every side curtain you bought would fit every car that was made? Today, we don't have the luxury. Another item. Those side curtains like Jim posted have all shrunk slightly, so you can't be absolutely positive they will be 100% correct. I used original curtains to make mine, plus I had the Ford drawings too, so I was able to copy the stitching details to get an identical curtain. I also made paper patterns of every part, and fitted them to the car BEFORE I started punching holes. When a fastener hole was off a bit I put masking tape over the hole and re-punched it until I got it right.

[TRDxB2]

There are some T side curtains for sale (make offer too) on Ebay, Not sure if they are applicable
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Glass-Mobile-6 ... SwOwNcgby7

[Jim, Sr.]

The photos of the side curtains that I posted were never "fitted" to a car. I think that when curtains were made for dealer stock that some of the fasteners were omitted and that would allow the dealer or owner to place the final fasteners where they would make the curtains fit well. Where you see fasteners missing on the curtains, those would be added in the "fitting" process.

[namdc3]

Jim, I wondered if that might be the case. I suspect the production drawings should speak to that; Larry will hopefully chime in with drawing information. In an above post, I noted that the photos of Larry's pickup that are floating around don't show a male fastener on the "arm rest" right in front of the prop nut. I had theorized that the photos just happened to be taken prior to Larry fitting his curtains, but alternatively, there might not be a fastener there. Hopefully the Ford drawing called out both the fasteners used in curtain production (shown in your photos) and the fasteners used in installation (possibly female eyelets on the bottom panel joint and probably a female eyelet at the top rear of the front panel).

[Original Smith]

I keep my curtains rolled up in an original Ford side curtain roll, which allows me to keep them under the seat cushion in the tool box located there.
I sent Mike Francis a drawing of that side curtain roll. Hopefully he will make some. I don't know if there is one for tourings and another for roadsters. With only two additional curtains, I think you could just roll them up a little tighter.

[Original Smith]

The flap shown in Jim's post for the RH front doesn't have the eyelet that must be installed. Because of the thickness of that flap you must compress the eyelet to get it to fit over the common sense fastener. You fasten that flap to the common sense fastener AFTER you get in the car.

[namdc3]

Larry, that makes sense, and I assume the upper rear corner of the LH front panel has an eyelet, too. Also, I assume the common sense fastener for those two locations should be double height to accept the two layers of eyelets.

How about the bottom of the curtains - is there a common sense fastener mounted in front of the prop nut area and eyelets in the circled areas attached?

[Original Smith]

There is definitely a common sense eyelet for those side curtains. They just haven't been punched yet. The common sense fastener is just ahead of the top prop iron on the left and right sides. Should you need the exact measurement for them, I'll be happy to furnish them. I believe that fastener is a double. Another thing that is often overlooked are the windshield hooks for those curtains. The upper one is the longest, and is curved. The lower on has a bend in it, but is much shorter. They are easy to find.

[Original Smith]

When installing those curtains, install the rears first, then the fronts. The curtain eyelets just ahead of the prop nuts go into a double common sense fastener. I appreciate Jim Rodell posting all those photos. I wish I had them to go by when I was making mine. Thanks Jim. You will notice the eyelet for the flap on the right front side curtain hasn't been punched either. That one is a difficult one to attach after getting into the car. The common sense fastener for it should have been a triple, but I don't have any of those. I took the curtain and flap, and compressed it in my bench vise so it would turn easier.
I have the side curtain roll out, and will try to get a picture of it for everyone to see.

[namdc3]

Thanks a lot Larry and Jim. To Larry's comment yesterday, yes, I'd like to know exactly where the common sense fastener ahead of the prop nut irons go (if it's not too much trouble, no hurry).

[Original Smith]

The common sense fastener is mounted exactly one inch ahead of the top prop iron.

[Original Smith]

Here is a photo I have in my collection of a car with the side curtains on it.

[Original Smith]

Since we're on the subject, here are some photos of two different side curtain rolls I have. The overall size is 19X25, with a 2 1/2 hem on the top and bottom, and a 3/4" hem on the sides. These are two different rolls, both the same size.

[CudaMan]

Larry, thanks for those pictures of your original curtain roll!

I bought a curtain roll from Lang's and it is functional, but it is more like a bag with a sewn bottom and a flap on top that folds over.

I have some black vinyl material, I think I'll try making a duplicate of your original roll for my car, it will be a chance to use my vintage Singer sewing machine!

[Jim, Sr.]

About ten years ago I took many photos of an original 1924 Touring that was at a local tractor and engine show. It still had its original top and interior, so it was nice to capture some details of the special caps on the ends of the hidem welts, fasteners, and stitching, etc. Many of those details apply to the Roadster as well.

[namdc3]

Thanks! Great posts!

[Original Smith]

More great photos Jim! The hidem welt tips are very hard to find. I suppose the upholstery shops just threw them away when redoing tops, and replaced them with generic ones. I looked for years to find some, and one day at Hershey, a guy had a bunch of them in a jar. That made the trip to Hershey that year worth while.

[smithcaspere]

Yes, you can adjust the curtain according to your need. If you want to open the door, then you have to unhook the curtain and then open the door, Another thing you can do can use a different frame which can be bigger in size so that when you open the door at that time it won't require to unhook the curtain.

[Original Smith]

I don't know if anyone is making the correct side curtains for the 22-25 open cars. The original side curtains I have are almost as good as Jim's but not quite. Making these curtains was one of the most fun projects I've done. I strongly suggest making paper patterns for each of the curtains, so as to get the alignment of each curtain perfect. I feel Ford must have had an alignment fixture for each car, either touring or roadster to be able to use the premade side curtains from dealer stock, and as you can see from Jim's photos they didn't install every single fastener. Another thing that can be an obstacle is the Anzo fasteners used on these. As far as I know, they are not available any more. I've had good luck finding them however. Should you need the top material to make them, contact Mike Francis at Classtique.