Rear Wheel Fitting
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Topic author - Posts: 21
- Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:56 pm
- First Name: George
- Last Name: Hounslow
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Speedster 1916 Tourer
- Location: Salisbury,England
Rear Wheel Fitting
Hi All,
I have just replaced one of the rear axle seals on my 1916 Tourer, and have refitted the wheel. However, despite having it on and off a few times and rechecking the fitment of the keyway, there is about an 1/8" difference as opposed to the other side, and I can see the edge of the brake shoes on the side I have removed.
Obviously I have done something wrong here. Any ideas as to what could be preventing the wheel fitting properly?
Many Thanks
George
I have just replaced one of the rear axle seals on my 1916 Tourer, and have refitted the wheel. However, despite having it on and off a few times and rechecking the fitment of the keyway, there is about an 1/8" difference as opposed to the other side, and I can see the edge of the brake shoes on the side I have removed.
Obviously I have done something wrong here. Any ideas as to what could be preventing the wheel fitting properly?
Many Thanks
George
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- Posts: 6435
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Rear Wheel Fitting
Welcome to the forum, George!
sounds like the seal cover has not seated
since this is apparently your first time doing this, you might want to draw a circle with a Sharpie Marker or a bit of paint on the ID of the cover, just outboard of where the axle comes out. Go ahead and replace your wheel and give it a bit of a turn remove the wheel...and I'll bet you've scraped off the marking with the inside of the wheel.
Now just to confuse things a bit, I'll tell you that that recess in the back of the wheel takes a felt seal, too. It is invariably missing...it is the same felt seal that goes into the front wheel, protecting the large inner bearing...that felt rubs on the OUTSIDE of the seal cover just like there is a felt seal INSIDE the cover
show som pix to verify I and others are on the right path, please
sounds like the seal cover has not seated
since this is apparently your first time doing this, you might want to draw a circle with a Sharpie Marker or a bit of paint on the ID of the cover, just outboard of where the axle comes out. Go ahead and replace your wheel and give it a bit of a turn remove the wheel...and I'll bet you've scraped off the marking with the inside of the wheel.
Now just to confuse things a bit, I'll tell you that that recess in the back of the wheel takes a felt seal, too. It is invariably missing...it is the same felt seal that goes into the front wheel, protecting the large inner bearing...that felt rubs on the OUTSIDE of the seal cover just like there is a felt seal INSIDE the cover
show som pix to verify I and others are on the right path, please
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
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- First Name: Norman
- Last Name: Kling
- Location: Alpine California
Re: Rear Wheel Fitting
If everything fit OK before you began this procedure, then I would suspect something is keeping the hub from going all the way on the axle. One thing would be the key is pushed in too far, either end. The hub and the axle are both tapered at the end of the keyway and if the key is in too far or out too far it won't allow the hub to go on all the way.
Or if the bearing and outside seal are not all the way flush with the end of the axle housing, it will also keep the hub from seating. When you put on the nut, you should tighten to 100 ft lbs and the cotter pin will go in. I usually turn it just before 100 and then tighten till the key just enough to align the notch with the hole in the axle.
Other things which could cause the problem would be worn thrust washers in the differential carrier In that case, if you jack up both wheels with the parking brake off, you would be able to pull the axle in and out. Or brake shoes could be in contact with the drum on the side of the shoes keeping the wheel to pull all the way down.
Norm
Or if the bearing and outside seal are not all the way flush with the end of the axle housing, it will also keep the hub from seating. When you put on the nut, you should tighten to 100 ft lbs and the cotter pin will go in. I usually turn it just before 100 and then tighten till the key just enough to align the notch with the hole in the axle.
Other things which could cause the problem would be worn thrust washers in the differential carrier In that case, if you jack up both wheels with the parking brake off, you would be able to pull the axle in and out. Or brake shoes could be in contact with the drum on the side of the shoes keeping the wheel to pull all the way down.
Norm
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- First Name: Dave
- Last Name: Hjortnaes
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 24 Speedster, 20 touring
- Location: Men Falls, WI
- MTFCA Number: 28762
- MTFCI Number: 22402
Re: Rear Wheel Fitting
1. Try installing without the key to see if it goes all the way.
2. Switch wheels and see if the problem repeats itself.
3. Make sure brake shoes are in all the way.
2. Switch wheels and see if the problem repeats itself.
3. Make sure brake shoes are in all the way.
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- Posts: 381
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- First Name: Alan
- Last Name: Long
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1910 Canadian Touring Car and 1926 Australian built Utility
- Location: Western Australia
Re: Rear Wheel Fitting
I too had this issue on my Model T (non Ruckstell axle and Floating Hubs) after a full overhaul using a replacement RHS housing.
Although Being very confident that everything was 100% internally and housings weren’t bent I did as mentioned above to
try without the Key and then swap wheel / brake drum left to right. The issue went with the wheel. To me, this was then a visual issue and I didn’t like the look of seeing part of the brake shoe. I then sourced cast iron brake drums off a 60’s English car
and while re drilling them to suit the Model T bolt pattern I also had the width reduced so it cleared the backing plate the same
clearance as the other side. I now have cast iron brake drums with perfectly matching backing plate clearance and YES the
Diff was good to go and has been for over a decade.
Alan In Western Australia
Although Being very confident that everything was 100% internally and housings weren’t bent I did as mentioned above to
try without the Key and then swap wheel / brake drum left to right. The issue went with the wheel. To me, this was then a visual issue and I didn’t like the look of seeing part of the brake shoe. I then sourced cast iron brake drums off a 60’s English car
and while re drilling them to suit the Model T bolt pattern I also had the width reduced so it cleared the backing plate the same
clearance as the other side. I now have cast iron brake drums with perfectly matching backing plate clearance and YES the
Diff was good to go and has been for over a decade.
Alan In Western Australia
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Topic author - Posts: 21
- Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:56 pm
- First Name: George
- Last Name: Hounslow
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Speedster 1916 Tourer
- Location: Salisbury,England
Re: Rear Wheel Fitting
Thank you all for your responses. I tried each of your suggestions over the weekend, except swapping the wheels over. Nothing appears to be rubbing, the wheel fits securely, and the handbrake works as before when tested.
I attach a photo, which hopefully shows that the brake shoes are just visible. My question is, will this cause me a problem if left as is, or is it purely cosmetic?
Many Thanks for your excellent responses.
George
I attach a photo, which hopefully shows that the brake shoes are just visible. My question is, will this cause me a problem if left as is, or is it purely cosmetic?
Many Thanks for your excellent responses.
George
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- First Name: john
- Last Name: karvaly
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
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Re: Rear Wheel Fitting
Did you tighten the axle nut all the way, without the key & rotate as a test? This would confirm the outer seal is not on all the way or there is no clearance issues.
Either way that gap would not bother me.
Either way that gap would not bother me.
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- Posts: 1959
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:39 am
- First Name: Tim
- Last Name: Juhl
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1917 Touring
- Location: Thumb of Michigan
- MTFCA Number: 50297
- MTFCI Number: 24810
- Board Member Since: 2018
Re: Rear Wheel Fitting
If you jack up both wheels, can you move either of the wheels in and out? Have you ever opened the differential housing and determined whether you have brass or Babbitt thrust washers?
1917 Touring
1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep (sold 2023)
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor
1946 Aeronca Champ
1952 Willys M38a1 Jeep (sold 2023)
1953 Ford Jubilee Tractor
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- Posts: 6435
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Rear Wheel Fitting
Actually, the brake drum is not supposed to cover over the backing plate, but come up to just about the outside face...
If one side DOES cover and run flush with the inside of backing plate, then that hub on the wheel has likely wallowed out and is going onto the axle farther than designed...if so, join the club...a great multitude of wheels run thusly and it is because someone or many owners, did not keep the axle nut tight.
If one side DOES cover and run flush with the inside of backing plate, then that hub on the wheel has likely wallowed out and is going onto the axle farther than designed...if so, join the club...a great multitude of wheels run thusly and it is because someone or many owners, did not keep the axle nut tight.
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured