1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
User avatar

Topic author
Eric Sole
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:25 pm
First Name: Eric
Last Name: Sole
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Roadster
Location: Barcelona, Spain
MTFCA Number: 31340
Board Member Since: 2015

1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by Eric Sole » Thu May 26, 2022 5:35 pm

I have installed the repaired and repainted front fenders, new hood shelf wood and trying to fit the repo radiator apron but no cigar yet. The front of the fenders where they bend over the front of the frame extend behind the apron and won't let it come back to meet the front engine mount. The original apron was welded to the radiator shell and doesn't provide much of an example of what things should look like. I've looked at dozens of pictures but there is not enough detail to really see how this should fit together. I assume it is correct that the front fenders extend behind the radiator apron - that's what is really pushing the apron forward.
Radiator_apron_1.jpg
Radiator_apron_2.jpg
Front_fender_gap_R.jpg
Another issue is the repo radiator mounting stud (3.5" long) free length. They only protrude 11/16" above the hood shelf, not much to thread the castellated nuts onto. The 4 springs measure about 0.9" in length and are extremely stiff.
The front fenders are not flat along the frame and do not allow the hood shelves to come down flat onto the frame (I can see light underneath). Maybe this is causing all the problems. I think they sat flat before painting but I am not sure.
Radiator_stud_short.jpg
Hood_riser_gap_R.jpg
I hope the attached pictures might identify where the problem lies. I would really appreciate any help with this matter.


speedytinc
Posts: 3840
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
MTFCA Number: 14383
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by speedytinc » Thu May 26, 2022 5:49 pm

One problem(of several?) might be the hood shelf blocks look way too thick.

User avatar

Topic author
Eric Sole
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:25 pm
First Name: Eric
Last Name: Sole
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Roadster
Location: Barcelona, Spain
MTFCA Number: 31340
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by Eric Sole » Thu May 26, 2022 6:05 pm

The hood shelf wood is the same thickness as the old pieces BUT the old wood was bent a bit and conformed better to the frame.


jiminbartow
Posts: 2202
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:55 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Patrick
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Coupe
Location: Bartow, FL
MTFCA Number: 50126
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by jiminbartow » Thu May 26, 2022 6:41 pm

Here is a drawing I in made in 2012 in answer to the order of assembly. John is correct. The wood block under your shelf is way too thick! If you were to install it that way, the louvered hood sides would not fit at all properly and could not be secured by the hood latches. The wood blocks should be exactly the same thickness as the inside height of the metal shelf. The shelf should sit on top of the wood blocks without the wood being visible, while still providing support to the metal shelf without the shelf making contact with the underlying steel fender. If the old wood blocks were that thick, they were wrong too. Even with the correct block thickness, I had to hammer a temporary 1” thick wooden wedge under the threaded stud to keep it as high as possible in order to expose enough thread above the assembly to install the small spring, lower and upper thimbles and top nut. The lower “washer nut” should be threaded as close as possible to the to the lower cotter key to provide as much thread above the assembly, as possible. Of course, the wood wedge must be removed after the assembly has been completed. Jim Patrick

10061671-0E24-4733-B201-55544CA86DEC.jpeg
Last edited by jiminbartow on Fri May 27, 2022 6:36 pm, edited 11 times in total.


speedytinc
Posts: 3840
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
MTFCA Number: 14383
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by speedytinc » Thu May 26, 2022 6:45 pm

Eric Sole wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 6:05 pm
The hood shelf wood is the same thickness as the old pieces BUT the old wood was bent a bit and conformed better to the frame.
And you KNOW that the old wood was original? The diagram Jim provided doesnt show a bunch of wood block gap.
Ill look @ my T tonight to confirm.


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by TXGOAT2 » Thu May 26, 2022 6:59 pm

You may have to loosen all the related bolts and shift parts around to get a better fit. The fender contours may not be exactly correct. Most aren't. New ones probably weren't. You may need to whittle or grind a little on the wood blocks to get a better fit. On my car, the parts fit together, but the fit is not exact, and I doubt if it ever was. The front edge of the fenders on my car are very close to the front edge of the frame crossmember, and the apron fits in between the turned-down leading edge on the lower front of the fender, but rubs slightly. It's normal for the radiator studs to be almost too short to get the nuts started. Space is limited, of course. I turned the studs in the lower threaded plates so that the cotter pins were against the plates. That gives the maximum length. The springs are very stiff. I used half a cotter pin on the top to allow the nuts to be as loose as possible. Fitting sheet metal parts on cars usually takes patience and thought. I can see about 1/8" of the wood blocks under the hood shelf on each side on my car. The fenders lay fairly close to the frame alongside the engine, but some daylight can be seen. When the car is assembled, it is normal to have a gap of about 3/4" between the lower sides of the hood and the top of the hood shelf.


Allan
Posts: 5201
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by Allan » Thu May 26, 2022 7:10 pm

The wood block does look too thick. They need to be just a bee's bum thicker than the edge of the shelf, so the shelf doesn't contact the fender and grind the paint off. It may help your installation if you make a wooden pad to sit on top of the hood shelf so you can use a G clamp to put pressure on the fender lip. It needs to lie flat on the frame/wood block. A clamp will drag everything down to the frame.

Hope this helps,
Allan from down under.


jiminbartow
Posts: 2202
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:55 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Patrick
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Coupe
Location: Bartow, FL
MTFCA Number: 50126
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by jiminbartow » Thu May 26, 2022 7:46 pm

Good on ya Allan. The wood block should be just thick enough to prevent the metal shelf from coming in contact with the underlying fender. If done right, the wood block will not be visible from above, but may be visible if closely looked at from the side. Jim Patrick

User avatar

Humblej
Posts: 1690
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:23 pm
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Humble
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Canadian built coupe, 1924 TT C-cab, survivor 1924 roadster
Location: Charlevoix, Mi
MTFCA Number: 28034
Board Member Since: 2006

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by Humblej » Thu May 26, 2022 7:57 pm

I think your main problem is the repo radiator apron. You may be able to improve the fit by elongating the holes for the radiator studs which may allow it to move forward enough to get the front face to lay flat. The hood block height will not affect the fit of the radiator apron front, only the height of the apron. If the apron bolt hole lines up with the hole in the engine mount you are fine. Although I agree with the others regarding the height of your hood shelf blocks.

Getting the radiator stud, springs, thimbles, radiator, radiator shell, nuts and cotter pins to all go together is easier than it looks. You need to drive a wedge between the bottom of the stud and the frame to raise the stud up, to overcome the force of the lower stud spring. A cold chisel works great. Once it all goes together and the nuts tightened, the lower spring will be compressed and the chisel will fall out.


Original Smith
Posts: 3284
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Smith
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 13 Touring, 13 Roadster, 17 Coupelet, 25 Roadster P/U
Location: Lomita, California
MTFCA Number: 121
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16310

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by Original Smith » Thu May 26, 2022 9:34 pm

Your radiator apron is missing the round sheet metal sleeve that is spot welded to all the originals I've seen. I agree on the thickness of the wood too.

User avatar

George Mills
Posts: 543
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:32 pm
First Name: George
Last Name: Mills
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Roadster, 1919 Hack, 1925 Fordor
Location: Cherry Hill NJ/Anona Largo FL
MTFCA Number: 29497
MTFCI Number: 10032
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by George Mills » Thu May 26, 2022 10:01 pm

Judging by the look of the apron in place either the hole centers are a tad off with it being a reproduction or, your stud centers dimension has drawn inward. The apron appears a bit S-warped with a bulge. May want to try sliding the rad on the studs as a gauge?

#2….Since it’s a 27, there should be a small hole in the apron just below the crank boss. Then a screw goes in and threads up to a hole in the motor mount bracket. I think this would take care of minimal top to bottom flare, but do not advocate using it to jack what you have inwards…find out why it has that S-bulge first.

I’ve also seen folks turn those mounting holes into a fork with snips. Takes care of front to back misalignment, gets covered anyway. FWIW

User avatar

Topic author
Eric Sole
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:25 pm
First Name: Eric
Last Name: Sole
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Roadster
Location: Barcelona, Spain
MTFCA Number: 31340
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by Eric Sole » Fri May 27, 2022 10:00 am

Thanks for everyone's input. After pulling a car apart and doing a ground up restoration there are so many things to deal with that I never saw years ago when I just got in and drove it!

I doubt that the old hood riser wood was factory (it's plywood), but the hood fit just fine with those pieces and they're as thick as the new ones. They conform to the frame though, kind of like steam bent wood effect. I think that by having all the screws tight on the hood riser it is making the front angle upwards, so I'm going to loosen the whole thing and see if the front will come down some for mounting the radiator, then with time the new wood will end up conforming to the frame like the old pieces did. :D
Here's the old piece laying on the fender:
hood riser wood.jpg
Raising the radiator mounting stud against the spring pressure with a cold chisel is very useful information indeed. I will definitely do that!

The radiator apron does have the thimble welded to it, but it's not very visible in the picture I posted.
radiator_aprons_comparison_3.jpg
The original had it's screw hole but didn't have a thimble:
radiator_apron_screw_hole.jpg
Pat McNallen, when you say "...the apron fits in between the turned-down leading edge on the lower front of the fender, but rubs slightly.", do you mean that the turned down leading edge does not extend behind the radiator apron and only comes up next to it? My fenders extend under the apron about a 1/4". They don't look to be modified but if they stopped just short of reaching the radiator apron, the apron would fit perfectly.
You can see the mark the old apron left on the fender:
mark on fender.jpg
Thanks very much for all your comments. They're very helpful!

User avatar

Topic author
Eric Sole
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:25 pm
First Name: Eric
Last Name: Sole
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Roadster
Location: Barcelona, Spain
MTFCA Number: 31340
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by Eric Sole » Fri May 27, 2022 10:02 am

Oh, and to Jim Patrick. I printed your drawing years ago and have referred to it more times than you can imagen. Kudos for that rendering. It's a real life saver!


jiminbartow
Posts: 2202
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:55 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Patrick
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Coupe
Location: Bartow, FL
MTFCA Number: 50126
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by jiminbartow » Fri May 27, 2022 10:54 am

I’m glad it helped, Eric. Believe it or not, it helped me too when my memory grew fuzzy. LOL! Jim Patrick


speedytinc
Posts: 3840
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
MTFCA Number: 14383
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by speedytinc » Fri May 27, 2022 11:11 am

I was able to look @ 2 27's last night in regards to your issues. ! restored coupe. The lower apron, original sits in front of the feanders, clearing by about .100" The wood blocks do show a good 1/8" below the shelves. Repop wood, I presume made too thick.
#2 my 27 R/PU. the wood blocks are not easily visible. They are the same height/thickness as the shelves.


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by TXGOAT2 » Fri May 27, 2022 11:36 am

On my car, the apron just touches the turned-down portion of the fenders. It does not extend behind them. I don't know whether this is correct or not. The car has a '27 frame and '26 style headlights. I believe the fenders are Ford. Overall, this car is very straight and symetrical. I added a '27 style headlight bar to help brace the fenders, and it fit with no difficulty. The shell is a brass one, painted black. I don't have the bright trim piece that goes on the apron, but the apron has tiny slots where one could be attached. Radiator is a Berg, and it seems to fit correctly all around, and the hood fit is good. There are pictures of my car on page 3 of Vehicles For Sale on this forum. Montana 500 Roadster. This was in January-February 2021. The head on view shows the apron and fenders.


Chris Barker
Posts: 275
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:08 pm
First Name: Chris
Last Name: Barker
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Coupe
Location: Somerset, Eng;and

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by Chris Barker » Fri May 27, 2022 5:08 pm

In addition to all the other apron and wood issues, I suggest that before you start to assemble things, get the mounting studs higher by running down the nuts - with washers below if required - to get the bars about halfway up the frame. Stop them going back down by putting small pieces of wood below the studs. Then remove the nuts. You should then have enough thread when you assemble things. When it's all done, remove the wood.

User avatar

Topic author
Eric Sole
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:25 pm
First Name: Eric
Last Name: Sole
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Roadster
Location: Barcelona, Spain
MTFCA Number: 31340
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by Eric Sole » Sat May 28, 2022 6:59 pm

Thanks Chris, I used your tip - used some spacers and tightened the nut which compressed the radiator mounting stud spring. A piece of wood underneath kept the whole thing up and gave plenty of length to put the nut onto.

I opened the radiator apron mounting holes so the apron could move forward a bit. Perfect fit BUT... the crank hole is 15mm too high. After comparing it to my original I can see the problem with this repo is that the crank hole is too high. The sticker that came on this apron says "RAD SHIELD (GOOD) 26-27".

It's impossible to use this part so I'll contact the supplier. Hopefully it was mismarked and there really is a good useable repo part, otherwise I'll be asking around for a good used one since my original has been so cobbled up with welding on the mounting ears.


speedytinc
Posts: 3840
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
MTFCA Number: 14383
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by speedytinc » Sat May 28, 2022 8:07 pm

Eric Sole wrote:
Sat May 28, 2022 6:59 pm
Thanks Chris, I used your tip - used some spacers and tightened the nut which compressed the radiator mounting stud spring. A piece of wood underneath kept the whole thing up and gave plenty of length to put the nut onto.

I opened the radiator apron mounting holes so the apron could move forward a bit. Perfect fit BUT... the crank hole is 15mm too high. After comparing it to my original I can see the problem with this repo is that the crank hole is too high. The sticker that came on this apron says "RAD SHIELD (GOOD) 26-27".

It's impossible to use this part so I'll contact the supplier. Hopefully it was mismarked and there really is a good useable repo part, otherwise I'll be asking around for a good used one since my original has been so cobbled up with welding on the mounting ears.
Something here is really screwy!! Got me scratchin my head. 15mm off is about the height of them wood blocks.
So I look @ my 27 & for giggles my 23. On both T's, the hood shelves stop well before the radiator. The radiator does NOT sit on top of the hood shelves.

There's your problem.

Continue on & you will find your radiator is too high & the hood doesnt fit either. Where is the hood latch points as fit now & to where the latches grab the hood? Hold a hood panel in place. Surprise!


speedytinc
Posts: 3840
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
MTFCA Number: 14383
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by speedytinc » Sat May 28, 2022 8:20 pm

Now I got to wonder, is this a stock bodied car. Is it all 27?
With the body in place, the incorrect location of the hood shelves would be real obvious.
A picture of the other end of the hood shelfs would be interesting.


speedytinc
Posts: 3840
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
MTFCA Number: 14383
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by speedytinc » Sat May 28, 2022 8:47 pm

Some thing still had me scratchin. So I looked @ another 27 for sale. The radiator does fit on top the hood shelves on this other T. ???
I must conclude my 27 is wrong? Everything fits as its supposed to down to the original apron. So confused.

Disregard my posts on this matter.


speedytinc
Posts: 3840
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
MTFCA Number: 14383
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by speedytinc » Sat May 28, 2022 9:14 pm

Still scratchin that itch. Could the apron actually be for a 24-25?
Being a different hood shelf/radiator mount position. I am guessing the radiator mounts on top of the fenders the way my 23 does.
24-27 aprons are not the same according to parts suppliers.


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by TXGOAT2 » Sat May 28, 2022 10:18 pm

On my '26-27 car, the radiator sits on top of the hood shelf. The hole in the apron is centered around the crank. The tabs on the apron are under the radiator springs and on top of the hood shelf. The small screw hole in the apron is not elongated or oversize, and it lines up nicely with the hole in the spring clip. I have the nuts that hold down the radiator as loose as they can be and still get half a cotter pin through them. I removed and replaced the radiator, crank, and apron, and never disturbed the hood shelves.

User avatar

Topic author
Eric Sole
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:25 pm
First Name: Eric
Last Name: Sole
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Roadster
Location: Barcelona, Spain
MTFCA Number: 31340
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by Eric Sole » Sun May 29, 2022 1:51 pm

Ok, here's what I have found. The hood riser height looks to be fine with the radiator mounted in place.

The only problem seems to be the radiator apron which sits too high in relation to the crank hole in the front motor mount.
z_Apron_crank_hole_alignment.jpg
With the old apron in place, the hand crank is low in the hole and incidentally, I remember it always being this way. This apron has the slots for the bright trim piece but does not have any thimble, so it doesn't cause any problems for the hand crank.
z_Crank_low_in_orig_apron_1.jpg
So the only thing that occurs to me is that the front cross member must be too low, thus lowering the front engine support and crank handle. The crank sits a bit too low with the old apron but with the repo apron the crank hole is 5mm higher than the old one and that makes it impossible to fit the crank through.
I have measured the distance from the top of the front cross member to the top of the frame using a rudimentary string and tape measure and came up with 131mm ((5.157 inches).
z_Front_crossmember_to_frame_top_1.jpg
z_Front_crossmember_to_frame_top_2.jpg
Does someone have a good 27 frame they could take a measurement from and confirm if mine is off?


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by TXGOAT2 » Sun May 29, 2022 2:21 pm

A late front crossmember may have less "dip" than the earlier ones, yet still might fit the frame. That's a guess. Less "dip" would lower the ride height, which Ford did do. They did change the front spindle forgings, the front spring, and the rear crossmember. I don't know if they changed the front crossmember.

User avatar

Topic author
Eric Sole
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:25 pm
First Name: Eric
Last Name: Sole
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Roadster
Location: Barcelona, Spain
MTFCA Number: 31340
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by Eric Sole » Sun May 29, 2022 5:06 pm

Incidentally, I tried mounting the apron below the hood risers but it's too low for the crank handle then then.

Hopefully someone can take a measurement from 27 frame. It would be helpful to figure out which direction I need to go with this part of the reassembly.


speedytinc
Posts: 3840
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
MTFCA Number: 14383
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by speedytinc » Sun May 29, 2022 5:17 pm

Eric Sole wrote:
Sun May 29, 2022 5:06 pm
Incidentally, I tried mounting the apron below the hood risers but it's too low for the crank handle then then.

Hopefully someone can take a measurement from 27 frame. It would be helpful to figure out which direction I need to go with this part of the reassembly.
Measured 2 loose frames. 5.062" on each.

User avatar

Topic author
Eric Sole
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:25 pm
First Name: Eric
Last Name: Sole
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Roadster
Location: Barcelona, Spain
MTFCA Number: 31340
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by Eric Sole » Mon May 30, 2022 3:54 pm

Thanks very much for the measurements John! I think I can safely say (famous last words) that my frame is within spec or at least not horribly off.

As far as the repo apron goes, it's just too high for the crank to go through the hole, so I made my own adjustment based on some of the suggestions I have received here. First I opened the mounting holes to make a forked mount. Then I straightened the mounting tabs and rebent them to lower the apron. I came down 10mm but could have used closer to 13mm or so, but at least the crank goes through the hole now.

I'll post pics tomorrow.


kmatt2
Posts: 558
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:41 pm
First Name: Kevin
Last Name: Matthiesen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 T Coupe, 16 T Open Express, 21 TT Flatbed. 15 T Roadster, 13 & 25 T Speedster , 51 Mercury 4 door sport sedan, 67 Mercury Cougar
Location: Madera CA 93636
MTFCA Number: 11598

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by kmatt2 » Mon May 30, 2022 5:27 pm

The bend in the tabs of your repo apron are not in the correct location, thus keeping your repo apron to high. From your last post it sounds like you were able to re-bend the tabs and lower the apron to fit the crank hole better. Congratulations on getting things to fit including the questionable fitting repo radiator apron.

User avatar

Topic author
Eric Sole
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:25 pm
First Name: Eric
Last Name: Sole
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Roadster
Location: Barcelona, Spain
MTFCA Number: 31340
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: 1927 radiator mounting studs and apron

Post by Eric Sole » Tue May 31, 2022 3:08 pm

The clean, orderly bolting together of bright, shiny, newly painted parts exists only in my fantasies. It's been a mind boggling assembly process. Obviously the best way is to have the body work done first, then refit everything, then remove everything, have it all painted and then reassemble. Oh well, the first scratches and are already done so it won't be such a shock when they start to appear after getting the car out.

Ok, here's how it turned out:
The best quality radiator apron is too high to put the crank through...
1 Apron_too_high.jpg
so I opened the mounting tab holes...
2 Apron_repo_tab_open.jpg
I straightened the mounting tabs in a bench vise then rebent them 10mm further up, so the tips of the mounting tabs just reach the radiator springs. I also put a thin washer under the springs to make sure it contacts the mounting tabs and holds them in place.
3 Apron_bent_to_lower_1.jpg
And here is the current position, still a little high but the crank goes through so that's what matters. I will have to ad the hole for the screw now.
4 Apron_repo_position-after_lowering.jpg
Thanks for everone's tips and suggestions!

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic