Tractor conversion advice
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
-
Topic author - Posts: 88
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:04 pm
- First Name: Kenneth
- Last Name: LeBlanc
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 coupe 23 touring 26 TT Snowmobile 22 TT Dump Truck 26 Fordoor
- Location: Atkinson NH 03811
- MTFCA Number: 25458
Tractor conversion advice
I have a trailblazer tractor conversion on a 26 /27 frame,looks like it has been together for years .I got it minus driveshaft and engine.i installed a driveshaft and a pain so as to line everything up .this is where my problem starts,the driveshaft hits the bottom of the axle which the tractor wheels ride on not allowing it to come up enough so it ends up holding the rear of the pan down causing the front of pan to be 4 to 5 inches above the front mount.the t axle is in fixed brackets that have no adjustments ,the tractor axle has minimum adjustment but the drive cogs and tractor wheels are in alignment now and moving axle would throw that off.Hoping someone has seen this? Thanks in advance
-
- Posts: 644
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:00 am
- First Name: Michael
- Last Name: Peternell
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: TT gas truck, T tractor conversions, '15 touring, '17 speedster, '26 16 valve speedster
- Location: Albany mn
Re: Tractor conversion advice
Please post a picture.
-
- Posts: 1287
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:13 pm
- First Name: Donnie
- Last Name: Brown
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Sport Touring, 1919 Speedster, 1914 Speedster, Wards tractor conversion, non starter 1926 Improved Touring
- Location: Hills of Arkansas
- MTFCA Number: 49575
Re: Tractor conversion advice
I have a Tailblazer on a 27 chassis, Post some pics of yours, and I'll look at mine to see what is different.
-
Topic author - Posts: 88
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:04 pm
- First Name: Kenneth
- Last Name: LeBlanc
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 coupe 23 touring 26 TT Snowmobile 22 TT Dump Truck 26 Fordoor
- Location: Atkinson NH 03811
- MTFCA Number: 25458
-
- Posts: 1710
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:23 pm
- First Name: Jeff
- Last Name: Humble
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Canadian built coupe, 1924 TT C-cab, survivor 1924 roadster
- Location: Charlevoix, Mi
- MTFCA Number: 28034
- Board Member Since: 2006
Re: Tractor conversion advice
I do not know your specific tractor conversion, but the tractor conversions I have seen do not use rear springs, the rear end is hard mounted to the conversion frame. Some tractor conversions put the rear axle on top, some underneath of the conversion frame. Some conversion frames are mounted above the chassis frame, some below. Hard to tell what yours should be, but something is throwing your geometry way off. The witness marks on your conversion frame make me think it is upside down.
This is a Sears conversion.
This is a Sears conversion.
-
Topic author - Posts: 88
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:04 pm
- First Name: Kenneth
- Last Name: LeBlanc
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 coupe 23 touring 26 TT Snowmobile 22 TT Dump Truck 26 Fordoor
- Location: Atkinson NH 03811
- MTFCA Number: 25458
Re: Tractor conversion advice
I think your correct Jeff there is no reason for spring to be there ,just because it appears to be old doesn't mean it was installed correctly.hopfully someone has one they can take pictures of for me .thanks for the responses everyone
-
- Posts: 5460
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:56 pm
- First Name: Frank
- Last Name: Brandi
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Speedster (1919 w 1926)
- Location: Moline IL
- Board Member Since: 2018
Re: Tractor conversion advice
Here are some links and pictures og the Montgomery Ward Trailblazer. The rear spring is in position.
viewtopic.php?t=16345
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/25 ... 1345012209
viewtopic.php?t=16345
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/25 ... 1345012209
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger
Mick Jagger
-
Topic author - Posts: 88
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:04 pm
- First Name: Kenneth
- Last Name: LeBlanc
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 coupe 23 touring 26 TT Snowmobile 22 TT Dump Truck 26 Fordoor
- Location: Atkinson NH 03811
- MTFCA Number: 25458
Re: Tractor conversion advice
Funny,all the pictures of the frame only kit are the one I am working on .after looking again though the spring is the only thing that holds kit to rear of frame
-
- Posts: 1039
- Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:11 pm
- First Name: bryant
- Last Name: shafer
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 tudor
- Location: myersville maryland
- MTFCA Number: 51736
- Board Member Since: 2021
Re: Tractor conversion advice
also interesting how none of the other examples have driveshafts in them ! looks like the one in the advertisement doesn't use the sub frame and is attached to the car frame.. I've been looking at all kinds of kits and some have the bull gear axle behind the axle. makes me wonder if somethings missing but i cant seem to find that exact kit in an advertisement.
“Whether you think you can, or think you can’t-you’re right.”
-
- Posts: 644
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:00 am
- First Name: Michael
- Last Name: Peternell
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: TT gas truck, T tractor conversions, '15 touring, '17 speedster, '26 16 valve speedster
- Location: Albany mn
Re: Tractor conversion advice
Sorry about the picture quality. It's buried in the shed now. I can get you more pictures if you want.
Mike
-
- Posts: 644
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:00 am
- First Name: Michael
- Last Name: Peternell
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: TT gas truck, T tractor conversions, '15 touring, '17 speedster, '26 16 valve speedster
- Location: Albany mn
Re: Tractor conversion advice
Looking closer at the trailblazer ad the tractor shown in it was manufactured by the Shaw company of Galesburg Kansas.
I'll post a couple of pictures later.
Mike
I'll post a couple of pictures later.
Mike
-
Topic author - Posts: 88
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:04 pm
- First Name: Kenneth
- Last Name: LeBlanc
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 coupe 23 touring 26 TT Snowmobile 22 TT Dump Truck 26 Fordoor
- Location: Atkinson NH 03811
- MTFCA Number: 25458
Re: Tractor conversion advice
Thanks Mike ,On mine the ford axle is behind the tractor axle,,it's a head scratcher.everything looks like it has been in place for a long time .
-
- Posts: 1039
- Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:11 pm
- First Name: bryant
- Last Name: shafer
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 tudor
- Location: myersville maryland
- MTFCA Number: 51736
- Board Member Since: 2021
Re: Tractor conversion advice
Maybe that kit is specific for a Model TT rear? The worm drive might put the drive shaft above the wheel shaft ? Just a guess….
“Whether you think you can, or think you can’t-you’re right.”
-
- Posts: 1287
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:13 pm
- First Name: Donnie
- Last Name: Brown
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Sport Touring, 1919 Speedster, 1914 Speedster, Wards tractor conversion, non starter 1926 Improved Touring
- Location: Hills of Arkansas
- MTFCA Number: 49575
Re: Tractor conversion advice
I had a little time today to look at my conversion. I took some photos but it will be tomorrow before I can post them. My conversion is like yours. The rear end is currently out of my tractor so I can not tell how close the drive shaft was to the rear wheel axle shaft. It was very close to the best of my memory. The Montgomery Ward conversions do use the rear spring as an attachment point.
There are four distinct models.
1. In 1929 Shaw made the conversions for Wards. It had small rear wheels with a solid cast steel pinion gear on the internal tooth bull gear
2. Then sometime during 1930 the Shaw was replaced by a very similar conversion made by the Peru wagon wheel co. It also had small wheels and an internal tooth bull gear, but the pinion gear was changed to a "roller pinion" gear and the rear wheels only had bushings where they ran on the axle shaft.
3 The next version was like version number 2 except it now had Timken roller bearings instead of bushings. This version was probably late 1930 and 1931 It was still made by Peru wagon wheel co.
4 The last version still made by Peru wagon wheel co. came out about 1932 and used taller rear wheels. The larger wheels were because they changed the bull gear to an external tooth gear to replace the poor design of an internal tooth bull gear. An internal tooth bull gear will trap dirt,rocks,sticks ect in the bull gear and carry it into the pinion gear. An external tooth bull gear tends to "shed" or dump any dirt or other items before they make it to the pinion gear. Just a lot better design. This version still used the "roller pinion" gear. From what I have been able to find out this version was available from Wards till the start of WW2.
The photo above of the conversion with the wood bed and sitting on concrete blocks is my tractor conversion about the time I first got it. I had a couple discussion threads of my tractor conversion when I first got it. I'll try to find them and post a link to them when I can.
One question, Do you have your "roller pinion" gears. I had to make mine as they do not exist in the wild any more. I was lucky that another conversion owner took excellent photos and acurate measurements of his "roller pinion" gears for me. I still have the measurements if needed.
This is swap meet time for me as well as camping vacation time so please bear with me if I'm a little slow to post
There are four distinct models.
1. In 1929 Shaw made the conversions for Wards. It had small rear wheels with a solid cast steel pinion gear on the internal tooth bull gear
2. Then sometime during 1930 the Shaw was replaced by a very similar conversion made by the Peru wagon wheel co. It also had small wheels and an internal tooth bull gear, but the pinion gear was changed to a "roller pinion" gear and the rear wheels only had bushings where they ran on the axle shaft.
3 The next version was like version number 2 except it now had Timken roller bearings instead of bushings. This version was probably late 1930 and 1931 It was still made by Peru wagon wheel co.
4 The last version still made by Peru wagon wheel co. came out about 1932 and used taller rear wheels. The larger wheels were because they changed the bull gear to an external tooth gear to replace the poor design of an internal tooth bull gear. An internal tooth bull gear will trap dirt,rocks,sticks ect in the bull gear and carry it into the pinion gear. An external tooth bull gear tends to "shed" or dump any dirt or other items before they make it to the pinion gear. Just a lot better design. This version still used the "roller pinion" gear. From what I have been able to find out this version was available from Wards till the start of WW2.
The photo above of the conversion with the wood bed and sitting on concrete blocks is my tractor conversion about the time I first got it. I had a couple discussion threads of my tractor conversion when I first got it. I'll try to find them and post a link to them when I can.
One question, Do you have your "roller pinion" gears. I had to make mine as they do not exist in the wild any more. I was lucky that another conversion owner took excellent photos and acurate measurements of his "roller pinion" gears for me. I still have the measurements if needed.
This is swap meet time for me as well as camping vacation time so please bear with me if I'm a little slow to post
Last edited by dobro1956 on Sat Jun 11, 2022 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
Topic author - Posts: 88
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:04 pm
- First Name: Kenneth
- Last Name: LeBlanc
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 coupe 23 touring 26 TT Snowmobile 22 TT Dump Truck 26 Fordoor
- Location: Atkinson NH 03811
- MTFCA Number: 25458
Re: Tractor conversion advice
Thanks Donnie for all the info,my wheels have bearings so I guess 30-31 style.i have 1 good pinion gear minus the bolts and rollers.the other is very egged out,I am trying to find a shop that can weld up holes and redrill using good one as a guide.i do need to find what to use for bolts and rollers though also not sure if any type of seal was used to keep inner bearing of tractor wheel clean and dry? Thanks again and I bet your pictures will shed some light
-
- Posts: 1287
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:13 pm
- First Name: Donnie
- Last Name: Brown
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Sport Touring, 1919 Speedster, 1914 Speedster, Wards tractor conversion, non starter 1926 Improved Touring
- Location: Hills of Arkansas
- MTFCA Number: 49575
Re: Tractor conversion advice
Here are some photos of my tractor conversion mounting points. It looks like some of mine may be mounted a little different than yours. Hard for me to tell from your photos. Maybe some different parts or how a different farmer did it ????? My drive shaft and rear axle assembly is out because I rebuilt my rear axle and have not put it back in yet. I did hold a torque tube in position and sight it to the centerline of the axle housing mounting clamp holes and it looks like I have about 1 inch of clearance between the torque tube and the tractor rear wheels axle. I had never looked real close at how the conversion bolted to the frame. It appears that the rear spring and torque tube is all that keeps the assembly from being ripped out of the tractor by the plow hooked to the draw bar. ?? The front of the conversion is only held in place by a "pinch plate" clamping it to the frame rail. When you look at my photos let me know if you see any major differences.
Last edited by dobro1956 on Sat Jun 11, 2022 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
Topic author - Posts: 88
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:04 pm
- First Name: Kenneth
- Last Name: LeBlanc
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 coupe 23 touring 26 TT Snowmobile 22 TT Dump Truck 26 Fordoor
- Location: Atkinson NH 03811
- MTFCA Number: 25458
Re: Tractor conversion advice
Thank you very much for taking time to get me these pictures I really appreciate it. I am working on it at a different location and will be back there monday.will let you know what I find
-
Topic author - Posts: 88
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:04 pm
- First Name: Kenneth
- Last Name: LeBlanc
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 coupe 23 touring 26 TT Snowmobile 22 TT Dump Truck 26 Fordoor
- Location: Atkinson NH 03811
- MTFCA Number: 25458
Re: Tractor conversion advice
My front mounting points seem different I think this may be where problem is will keep you informed thanks for help
-
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:05 am
- First Name: Glenn
- Last Name: Heim
- Location: Illinois
Re: Tractor conversion advice
How about an update on how the project is going?
-
Topic author - Posts: 88
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:04 pm
- First Name: Kenneth
- Last Name: LeBlanc
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 coupe 23 touring 26 TT Snowmobile 22 TT Dump Truck 26 Fordoor
- Location: Atkinson NH 03811
- MTFCA Number: 25458
Re: Tractor conversion advice
It seems that if I use a mounting setup like in Donnie's pictures everything will clear .so I have had some steel plate bent up .what has derailed me for a while is that one of my small drive gears was in very bad shape.a local iron works shop was able to repair but it took a long time.once I return from Hershey I hope to get back to it and will post pictures .thanks for asking
-
- Posts: 1287
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:13 pm
- First Name: Donnie
- Last Name: Brown
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 Sport Touring, 1919 Speedster, 1914 Speedster, Wards tractor conversion, non starter 1926 Improved Touring
- Location: Hills of Arkansas
- MTFCA Number: 49575
Re: Tractor conversion advice
Ken, When I made my roller pinion gears I used 7/16 grade 8 bolts with square nuts on the inside and lock washers on the outside under the head of the bolts. The square nuts fit against a shoulder on the inner plate so they will not turn,, and the lock washer keeps the bolt in place.. For the rollers I used model T piston wrist pins . One pin will make 2 rollers. The outside diameter of the wrist pin is the same as the original rollers and the inside diameter fits the 7/16 bolt perfectly. The original bolts were 1/2 inch and the original rollers ID fit the 1/2 inch bolts. The wrist pins are very hard and should hold up well and the 7/16 bolt I used instead of the 1/2 inch should be plenty good for the way we will use the tractor today.