engine pan bolts
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Topic author - Posts: 408
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:43 am
- First Name: Art
- Last Name: Ebeling
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 touring 14 runabout
- Location: Hillsboro IL
- MTFCA Number: 50718
engine pan bolts
Should there be cotter pins in the engine oil pan bolts? The bolts on my 11 are installed from the bottom with the castle nut on top but there are no cotter pins installed. Thanks, Art
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- Posts: 5259
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
- First Name: Allan
- Last Name: Bennett
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
- Location: Gawler, Australia
Re: engine pan bolts
Art, as far as I know, your bolts are in correctly. They should be split pinned. I believe bit bits were bent the same way. Some time in the 20's, the split pins were deleted and spring washers were used. These were wider in cross section than most available today. Others will have more to say.
Allan from down under.
Allan from down under.
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- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: Jelf
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
- Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
- MTFCA Number: 16175
- MTFCI Number: 14758
- Board Member Since: 2007
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Re: engine pan bolts
If you're being true to the Ford method before the last years of production, it's nut on top with cotter pins. Some folks are less fastidious about being correct, omitting the pins and using lock washers instead.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring
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- First Name: John
- Last Name: Kuehn
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 19 Roadster, 21 Touring, 24 Coupe
- Location: Texas
- MTFCA Number: 28924
Re: engine pan bolts
I think it was in late 1924 that Ford stopped using cotter pins in the pan bolts. If I am wrong I stand corrected.
From a mechanics point of view using lock washers is easier and a lot less hassle especially in tight places. I have 3 black era T’s and I used lock washers in most places where I could.
If I had a brass era T I probably would try to use the cotter pins as much as I could.
From a mechanics point of view using lock washers is easier and a lot less hassle especially in tight places. I have 3 black era T’s and I used lock washers in most places where I could.
If I had a brass era T I probably would try to use the cotter pins as much as I could.
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- First Name: Steve
- Last Name: Tomaso
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1919 Centerdoor, 1924 TT C-Cab Express, 1925 Racer
- Location: Longbranch, WA
- MTFCA Number: 14972
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Re: engine pan bolts
Yes, all are nuts up EXCEPT the bolt under the commutator - it's reversed to avoid contact with a timer terminal.
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- First Name: Mark
- Last Name: Osterman
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 runabout
- Location: Rochester, NY
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Re: engine pan bolts
My ‘23 came with all the castle nuts fitted with cotter pins. Every single bolt on the damned thing. Took me forever to take the car apart for rebuilding.
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- First Name: Mark
- Last Name: Gregush
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 cutdown PU, 1920 Dodge touring, 1948 F2 Ford flat head 6 pickup 3 speed
- Location: Portland Or
- MTFCA Number: 52564
- Board Member Since: 1999
Re: engine pan bolts
Guess a lot depends on what gaskets are used because I seem to find some nuts and bolts for the pan and hogs head that need snugging up after the engine was run awhile even with lock washers. I would hate to go to all that work only to have to pull the cotter pins to check.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
1925 Cut down pickup
1920 Dodge touring
1948 Ford F2 pickup
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- Posts: 5259
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
- First Name: Allan
- Last Name: Bennett
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
- Location: Gawler, Australia
Re: engine pan bolts
John may be correct with 1924 being the year the split pins were deleted for spring washers. My Canadian supplied 1925 barn fresh buckboard has spring washers on al the pan bolts. Even the hogshead still had all but one washer in place when I renewed the bands.
Allan from down under.
Allan from down under.
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- Posts: 132
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:30 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Matthiesen
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Coupe, 1921 speedster, 1925 TT, 1916 Exp
- Location: Madera California
- MTFCA Number: 11598
Re: engine pan bolts
Back around 1974 at my dad's place in Lemoore Ca., where I kept my 1926 T 2 dr, I was talking about old cars with the next door farmer who was in his late 70's. The farmer said that in the fall of 1918 he sold his 1915 Harley MC and took money he had saved up and bought a new Model T Ford touring. The one thing he remembered the most about getting that new T was after a few miles the engine pan to block was leaking oil and he had to tighten all the nuts and add the carter pins that weren't installed at the factory. A war time economy by Ford to save money on carter pins, something missed on the engine assembly line, or something the Ford dealer was to do at first service, who knows.
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- First Name: Larry
- Last Name: Smith
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Re: engine pan bolts
I used to work with a man who called cotter pins carter pins.
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- Posts: 132
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:30 pm
- First Name: Kevin
- Last Name: Matthiesen
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Coupe, 1921 speedster, 1925 TT, 1916 Exp
- Location: Madera California
- MTFCA Number: 11598
Re: engine pan bolts
Yes that is what the farmer called said pins, and he lived in Lemoore Ca. all his life. May be it was a Ca thing.
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- Posts: 3298
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
- First Name: Larry
- Last Name: Smith
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 13 Touring, 13 Roadster, 17 Coupelet, 25 Roadster P/U
- Location: Lomita, California
- MTFCA Number: 121
- MTFCA Life Member: YES
- MTFCI Number: 16310
Re: engine pan bolts
What about the small fine threaded bolts used on early cars to secure the engine and transmission pans to the frame? They have a 3/8's square head, and nut, and are fine thread. The also have a cotter pin hole.
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- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:45 am
- First Name: David
- Last Name: Stroud
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 Coupe
- Location: Mound City, MO 64470
- Board Member Since: 2011
Re: engine pan bolts
Nope, it ain't a CA. thing. I have a friend here in NW MO.that calls them carter pins too, has done it for 55 + years that I know of. Dave
1925 mostly original coupe.