MTFCA Forum

Got a question, it is obvious why you'd need a key on the Hand Brake Lever side, but shouldn't there also be a key on the other side too, it also pulls a brake rod. But I can find no pictures, notations or even a reference to such a key on that side. I also couldn't find a different number/size for the pin that holds the right side rod pull nor the pin that holds the neutral cam either. If anyone of you knows if these pins are different sizes and therefore have different part numbers, please let me know....also let me know if there is indeed a key on the right side rod pull arm too, thanks.

Martynn, the key is responsible for transferring the torque applied by the handle to the other side of the shaft. The load on the short end is not something the pin cannot handle. So, I believe there is no key on the short arm end. I have never seen one there.

Allan from down under.

Dan, that key is for the Lever not the cam...I just put it where it goes, not in the order in which it goes there. Also, you'll notice that the cam goes almost to the "U" bend, there is a center line for the pin further down where it goes....but if it is brazed, then did it not also get pinned as the set up for brazing? Something has to hold it in place whilst they brazed it, right?

Perhaps I should make the center lines bolder, they're very had to see in a 16 bit drawing. I usually draw in 32 and 64 bit, but the forum won't accept either of those two sizes of drawings. Face Book accepts 32 bit drawings, but not the 64's, those I'm reserving for a printed hard copy book and they've got Factory Numbers and Change Dates not Part Numbers, but maybe I should add the part number too, might make for a more complete parts reference.

Hmmm, gonna have to cogitate on that some.

Martynn

Opps, thanks for that correction.

So had to go to the parts pile and inspect the construction of the control shaft 3449 that includes the 3432 speed lever and the hand brake lever.

That speed lever is brazed to the control shaft, so much so could not tell of there is a rivet pin there, don't think so as the Parts and Price list pic is without a tiny hole for one in this 3432 part. That brazing does the job.
As for the hand brake lever, did see that keyway for a key in the shaft, so that is correct.

And the hand brake lever is also pinned with a rivet 3456B that the Parts Book notes to order 2574, the U-joint pin. The 2574 is Factory #6, and the size is 9/32" x 1 1/2".

For for the 3465 hub brake lever, the rivet pin is 3466 and Parts book notes to order 3405. 3405 is the rivet pin for the clutch release fork 3406C. That 3405 pin is Factory # 1553 and the size is 1/4" x 1 3/16"

The one you have pictured was only used in 1921. Notice there are no oil holes for lubrication. He brought back the oil holes after a year + of this type.
It pays to research topics thoroughly before posting on the forum!

Larry

The 3450 bracket in the control shaft photographed above does have the oil felt recess.

That accommodates the felt pad 3005, Factory #314.

Is this the 'oil hole' ? Where else is an oil hole on the controller shaft? What makes this part only 1921?

Dan, woo, good stuff, didn't know about that oil felt, saw it listed in the alpha parts list of Bruce's, but couldn't find the bloody thing....now I know, only problem is I don't know what one looks like. It is obviously part of 3450, but if the factory parts list calls it out it must be shown not assembled into that bracket.

I made a mistake showing the cam 3432 pitched so far forward, in the neutral position of the Brake Lever 3475, it should be almost straight up, not canted forward where it would be if the lever was pulled all the way back. So I went back and re-adjusted the cam and whilst I was at it, thought since it was brazed at the factory and indeed many of the later parts book show as part of the cross shaft, I decided to just show it already affixed to that shaft as one assembly...the key is separate because it isn't added until you put the Brake Lever 3475 onto the end of the cross member shaft.

I will also make a note of the Factory Numbers, I'm pretty sure they'll come in handy at a later date.

Larry, you don't seem to understand why I post here....I'm a Technical Illustrator, I draw based upon whatever I can find on the internet, my own car and from my own paltry stores of documentation. I post here not expecting to be correct, but to be corrected, by you guys who are the experts in all the different years of this car. I try to get close as I can, then let you guys handle the corrections.

The 3450 bracket went through some changes but I do not have dates just the parts in my shop to see that they evolved like many other part numbers. Darryl

Apart from Larry's 3450 part without the oiler hole, the only other variation I know of is the earlier samples had a square hole cast into the body of the part, rather than a drilled one. They look bulkier between the mounting foot and the eye for the cross shaft.

Allan from down under.

Ok, one more change, Steve Jelf brought this to my attention and not finding anything else that disputed what he said, I've made this change. The Brake Lever 3475, doesn't seem to exist as the lever, but the Pawl Rod for the Torpedo runabout. This changed later to 3460 or 3460A (7/32 x 14 21/32 long) somewhere prior to 1919. In 1919 it changed again, the diameter was the same but the length changed (7/32 x 14 25/32) and is numbered as 3460B, but are under the Ford Factory Number of T-877, whereas the Torpedo runabout Pawl Pull Rod Factory Number was T-1593. The Brake Lever was sold from Ford as an assembly "with attachments" under the number 3455 from late 1909 through 1927. But all the other parts do have numbers too, so I guess those parts could be bought separately as well as the assembled Brake Lever.

Allan wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:22 pm

Apart from Larry's 3450 part without the oiler hole, the only other variation I know of is the earlier samples had a square hole cast into the body of the part, rather than a drilled one. They look bulkier between the mounting foot and the eye for the cross shaft.

Allan from down under.

And this the another, with a round hole in the casting for the felt recess, and the felt used is a round pad!


For more fun, anyone seen this variety? Ford script, but made from steel stamping, not cast. Maybe a very late change for saving $$?

Another change, cotter pin size and took out the washer.

Dan, the squared off hole in your second post is the earlier version. The later one shown with the felt and the round hole followed some time. The body of the square hole type is also squared off somewhat between the shaft hole and the mounting face, making it look bulkier.

Allan from down under.

I have one or two of the strap iron style Dan - I thought the same - late production cost cutting.

I posted a photo of the strap design a week ago. It is rusty, but still shows the Ford script.

VowellArt wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:39 pm

Another change, cotter pin size and took out the washer.


1919-1925HandBrakeAssembly2.jpg

I have never seen a cotter pined version. I have worked on 13-27 & bought many loose units, including TT to make into rux shifters.
At the least, your time range cant be right.
I wish I could be more helpful.

You show a woodruff key to attach the cross shaft to the lever. This is an earlier version, I believe. I have seen it, maybe to 15?. Others would know better. The key is not in tune with your time line.
It gave me an itch in back of my neck, so I looked at my pile. None of the 10 or so I have are keyed. The lever is held on only by the pin.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:06 pm

VowellArt wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:39 pm

Another change, cotter pin size and took out the washer.


1919-1925HandBrakeAssembly2.jpg

I have never seen a cotter pined version. I have worked on 13-27 & bought many loose units, including TT to make into rux shifters.

The cotter pin is for the pawl rod to the pawl itself, attaching parts 3460 and 3458.

Pep C Strebeck wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:38 pm

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:06 pm

VowellArt wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:39 pm

Another change, cotter pin size and took out the washer.


1919-1925HandBrakeAssembly2.jpg

I have never seen a cotter pined version. I have worked on 13-27 & bought many loose units, including TT to make into rux shifters.

The cotter pin is for the pawl rod to the pawl itself, attaching parts 3460 and 3458.

sorry bout that. I should have blown it up.

those I'm reserving for a printed hard copy book

Put me down for a copy please