Cursed Model T

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dykker5502
Posts: 410
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:01 pm
First Name: Michael
Last Name: Deichmann
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1921 Roadster P/U, 1922 Fordor (danish custom body)
Location: Rågeleje, Denmark
MTFCA Number: 29116
Board Member Since: 2007

Cursed Model T

Post by dykker5502 » Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:28 am

I finally got my little red roadster pick-up assembled and put the engine back in the car.
A T friend of mine that have known the car from the past have told me that it is cursed and often fails when the stakes are high and it's function needed. I was supposed to participate the comming weekend in "Bornholm Rundt" ("Around Bornholm") - one of the best vintage car event in Denmark with over 180 vehicles. Now I will go without Model T and drive with friends as co-driver.

It turns out that the engine only goes on #3 and #4 and occasionally on #2 and only at idle or high idle. if I open the throttle it stalls after some coughing even if you open it up slowly.
Here is a video that shows how it sounds (muffler is broke too :-) ): https://youtu.be/v9EQNdi6jyw
You can hear that #2 chimes in occasionally on the video while it only goes on #3 and #4.

I have switched virtually everything:
  • Coils (all refurbished)
  • Plugs
  • Plug wires
  • Carburator
  • Manifold gaskets - both "asbestos" and copper rings
The manifold mounting have been redone a couple of times with both type of gaskets (I use to have control of that mounting)
We have checked by wieving down the plug holes that the valves operates in #1 and #2 and the way the starter sounds also indicates fairly good compression on all 4 cylinders.
I'm out of ideas......
Ford Model T 1914 Touring
Ford Model T 1921 Roadster Pick-up
Ford Model T 1922 Fordor (danish build body)
ECCT, Strobospark, HCCT(Sold), Rebuilding coils


Jeepbone1
Posts: 596
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:10 pm
First Name: Brad
Last Name: Kirtner
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Touring Car, 1927 Closed Cab TT, 1927 Coupe
Location: Salem, Virginia
MTFCA Number: 50618
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Cursed Model T

Post by Jeepbone1 » Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:47 am

The only thing left is the timer. Contacts in it may be loose. If it’s a roller timer, the spring on the roller could be broken. If it’s a brush then it may be worn out. That’s the only other thing I can think of.

Brad

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Topic author
dykker5502
Posts: 410
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:01 pm
First Name: Michael
Last Name: Deichmann
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1921 Roadster P/U, 1922 Fordor (danish custom body)
Location: Rågeleje, Denmark
MTFCA Number: 29116
Board Member Since: 2007

Re: Cursed Model T

Post by dykker5502 » Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:12 am

Jeepbone1 wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:47 am
The only thing left is the timer. Contacts in it may be loose. If it’s a roller timer, the spring on the roller could be broken. If it’s a brush then it may be worn out. That’s the only other thing I can think of.
Brad
Well, I havent swapped that I must admit as it ran well when it ran last 4 years ago. But point taken. It is a roller and when turning the motor with the krank it buzz as it should on all 4 positions.
And that does not really explain why it will not rev up but dies when I open the throttle.
Ford Model T 1914 Touring
Ford Model T 1921 Roadster Pick-up
Ford Model T 1922 Fordor (danish build body)
ECCT, Strobospark, HCCT(Sold), Rebuilding coils


Art Ebeling
Posts: 408
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Art
Last Name: Ebeling
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 touring 14 runabout
Location: Hillsboro IL
MTFCA Number: 50718

Re: Cursed Model T

Post by Art Ebeling » Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:23 am

This is going to sound crazy. I had a similar situation that I posted about and Randall Anderson gave me the answer. He said to make sure the intake was not restricted. The intake had been on a shelf for a few years and I had even had it milled because I thought it wasn't seating at the block. I ran a wire up thru it and sure enough, it was blocked with mud dobber debris. It was so far in it could not be seen the several times I had the manifold in my hands. Art

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TWrenn
Posts: 3388
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:53 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Wrenn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13 Touring, '26 "Overlap" Fordor
Location: Ohio
MTFCA Number: 30701
MTFCI Number: 24033
Board Member Since: 2019

Re: Cursed Model T

Post by TWrenn » Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:22 am

Art, that's a good point. Amazing how those little critters could crawl up through the carb and up in there. But for sure we should all always start at the timer first and work our "way up", often that's where the issue is and would save a lot of time and headache!


Jerry VanOoteghem
Posts: 2949
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:06 pm
First Name: Jerry
Last Name: Van
Location: S.E. Michigan
MTFCA Number: 24868

Re: Cursed Model T

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:36 am

Art Ebeling wrote:
Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:23 am
This is going to sound crazy. I had a similar situation that I posted about and Randall Anderson gave me the answer. He said to make sure the intake was not restricted. The intake had been on a shelf for a few years and I had even had it milled because I thought it wasn't seating at the block. I ran a wire up thru it and sure enough, it was blocked with mud dobber debris. It was so far in it could not be seen the several times I had the manifold in my hands. Art
I had a similar experience using a new-old-stock intake manifold. After trying dozens of "fixes" the only thing I hadn't looked at was the intake. Took it off and found a huge piece of casting flash inside one of the ports. I could have cleared it out, but it felt much better at that point to throw it in the trash! :x


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Cursed Model T

Post by TXGOAT2 » Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:43 am

The timer may work well at cranking speed and at idle speed, but fail to work properly at higher speeds.


Stephen_heatherly
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:03 pm
First Name: Stephen
Last Name: Heatherly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 coupe and 23 Runabout
Location: St. Louis MO

Re: Cursed Model T

Post by Stephen_heatherly » Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:46 am

In addition to what the others have said, I have a few suggestions. Inspect and clean the timer. Roller timers require frequent cleaning. The fiber ring and contact segments should be round not worn bumpy. At this time also make sure all the insulators are in good condition and the contact segment nuts are snug. If you discover the timer is fine, you still haven't lost anything. Make sure the wires running from the timer to the coil box are not broken and the connections are clean. Also, make sure the contact fingers in the coil box are making good contact with the coils.

Stephen


Norman Kling
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Last Name: Kling
Location: Alpine California

Re: Cursed Model T

Post by Norman Kling » Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:46 am

One other thing I didn't see mentioned is the coil box. If it has gotten wet and the car was started before it was completely dried out, the spark could have grounded through the wet wood. After this happens many times it can burn a carbon path through the wood and the spark could ground without going to the spark plugs. Sometimes you might get spark at idle but under compression with the throttle open, the path through spark plug does not happen and the spark goes through wood to ground. Be sure you are getting spark to each of the plugs and set the gap around .0025" Don't know how that translates to metric. You might need to change the coil box, or replace the wood in the box.
Norm


jiminbartow
Posts: 2202
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:55 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Patrick
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Coupe
Location: Bartow, FL
MTFCA Number: 50126
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: Cursed Model T

Post by jiminbartow » Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:01 pm

My T, with a roller type timer, ran well when idling, but had trouble when I advanced it. Turns out that the timer contacts would touch the timer rod at certain locations on the rod as the timer would rotate. I remedied it by wrapping the timer advance/retard rod with 3M, 130C rubber (not vinyl) electrical splicing tape. Stretch it as you wrap it around the rod and it will weld itself to the prior wrapping creating a solid rubber sheath of insulating rubber the length of rod that comes close to the timer contacts as it is advanced. This is the type of rubber tape your baseball coach used to wrap the baseball bat grips with. Jim Patrick

PS. The featured box says the roll contains 10’, but since it stretches about 4 times the length you pull off the roll, you really have about 40’ of tape to work with.

997AA82D-FE8F-4981-B2EC-C49F174D79CC.jpeg


J1MGOLDEN
Posts: 944
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:39 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Golden
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Model T Roadster
Location: Bowie, MD
MTFCA Number: 14294
MTFCI Number: 13562

Re: Cursed Model T

Post by J1MGOLDEN » Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:04 am

Then if the engine coughs when trying to increase speed, it could be fuel starvation because the carburetor float is not properly set to fill the bowl with gas.

The lean engine situation is normally noticed by the engine backfiring when trying to increase speed though.

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Bob McDaniel
Posts: 444
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Last Name: McDaniel
Location: Smithville TN.
MTFCA Number: 28428
Board Member Since: 2007

Re: Cursed Model T

Post by Bob McDaniel » Sat Jul 02, 2022 3:27 pm

One more easy thing to check that can cause this problem is the bolt below the timer that goes through the front of the oil pan into the bottom of the engine block could be pointed up instead of down and will hit the terminals on the lower side of the timer every time you advance your timing and short out that cylinder. I have a 27 T that had this problem and to fix it all I did was to remove the bolt and put it in from the top with the nut on the under side of the oil pan. Car runs perfect now.
Give an old car guy a barn and he won't throw anything away.

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