MTFCA Forum

I've got a '17 touring with 30x3 1/2" clincher wheels front and back. It got time to replace tires. Not knowing the history on the existing tires, I wanted to go with new tubes, and flaps. Once I peeled off the old tires and tubes I could see the advantage of flaps, as the old tubes had patches and chaffing on the inside (rim contact) area, the area protected by flaps. I got new tires, tubes, and flaps. I set an old tire/wheel combo in the flaps to smooth out the packing wrinkles, giving them a nice reverse taco shape. I powdered and put the tubes on the flaps, and placed the tube/flaps in the tires. Using 2 tire irons and liberal tire soap I attempted to mount'em up. No way! Not only was I unable to get the tire/tube/flap more that about half way on the wheel, but the flap continued to pull out of the tire, as though the diameter of the flap was less than the tire. I found that pulling just the flap onto the rim was tight, I really had to stretch the flap. I double checked the flap packaging to confirm that they were the correct size, 30x 3 1/2". I got some longer (24") irons which made no difference.
I finally mounted the tires/tubes without the flaps. They didn't jump on by themselves, but I was able to install them. They seated and hold air fine. I did clean up, deburr, and paint the wheels, which will hopefully reduce chaffing on the tubes. The point being that, A - the flaps weren't cheap, and B - I really wanted to use the flaps as I think it'll protect the tube better.
So, what did I miss? Why were the flaps so hard (impossible at this point) to install?
Thanks, Maury Dean

The correct procedure is to barely inflate the tube until round, install flap over tube inside of tire, insert tube stem into rim then start working around. Some people mount both sides at once but I've not had luck doing that & I have really decent irons.

I also have a motorcycle tire machine - helps on the old knees !

Take a look at the YouTube video of using 10 or so zip ties to hold the flap, tube and tire together as one and installed all at once. It worked very well for me. Also make sure the tire is heated in the sun to make it more pliable and BE PATIENT!!

SOunds interesting, can you provide a link to that video please.

Type in 'Mounting tires with zip ties' and you will get numerous videos. Take your pick.

Here is a bulky new flap and a rim liner cut from the OD of a used 13" tube saved for me by my local tyre shop. Here is the rim liner fitted to the rim. It is a snap fit and will not move when fitting the tyre. I put the partially inflated tube in the tyre, clamp both beads in the rim at the valve stem, and lever both sides on at the same time. I can't see the value of adding all that weight to the rotating mass of the wheel, let alone the significant decrease in my bank balance for a set of flaps.

Allan from down under.

I have been using 28” heavy duty bicycle tubes as wheel liners (flaps) in the 30 1/2” wheels. Cut out the stem, using scissors carefully cut the circumference along the outside center of the tube. Stretch the tube over the split rim, aligning the stem holes in tube and wheel and ensuring the bike tube is well centered in the rim. If you do not have a perfectly straight cut you may need to trim a little excess tube off of one side or the other to ensure the tire seats well in the rim. Lightly powder the bike tube and wheel tube. Insert the powdered, partially inflated tube into the tire then insert the wheel and complete the mount. Much less expensive and I believe much easier to install than flaps.

Thank you for the replies. I did watch a youtube about mounting with zip ties. I can see where that may help keep the tire closed, and the flap in the tire. I got stuck doing some dirt relocation, but will get back on the T in a day or so.
Thanks again, Maury Dean

The flap goes into the tire between the beads of the tire between the tire beads and slightly inflated tube. Baby powder is used as a dry lubricant when putting it all in together using a couple of flat tire irons. Jim Patrick

I'm one of those devil's advocate renegade types that never uses flaps. I followed another former poster's advice, and have never had any problems. I DO line the rim with either Gorilla tape, or now I use that newer Trex tape, it actually seems better. Just my dumb opinion! And oh, my method of tire mounting is to take em to the young man at the tire shop who loves to do these! I don't have the strength.

There seems to be some confusion here with regards to the two distinct purposes of these two items - a "rim liner" and a tire "flap" - whatever floats your boat.

Ok you may laugh but a very young T modeler in the area (read broke) decided his clincher rims were too rough so he purchased a can of that rubber like spray they advertise instead of flaps and lined the rim. I don’t know how long it will last or work but it did look good before mounting the tire. That’s been about 6 months ago and he’s had no problem so far. Thought I’d share how these young swains think. He’s always trying to reinvent the wheel, pun intended, Ha.
Best John

The only time you really need flaps is when you have split rims but using them for clinchers is a good way to minimize the chances of pinching a tube during installation. I use them because I have accumulated a fair number of original flaps but wouldn't spend the money on the new ones unless I was mounting a split rim. The new flaps are way too thick and seem oversized and very hard to use.

I just bought two 30 X 3 tires and tubes from Universal Tire and asked about flaps.

I was told to just put a layer of Duct Tape around the wheel after the tire is removed and the area was cleaned.

When the tire was removed there was no flap, but the Duct Tape was still holding and not easy to remove.

Those tires had been on the rims for over 20 years and the tubes had no patches, and still held 60 pounds of air for over 6 months.

Goo Gone and a wire brush made removing the old Duct Tape much easier, then I added a fresh coat of paint.

Then I started about 3 inches before the valve stem hole with fresh tape, and continued around to about 3 inches past the valve stem hole.

Then cut out the valve stem hole with an Exacto knife.

Removing one old very hard tire was the hardest part of the whole tire change.

I used a clamp like show above and earlier to squeeze the old tire together and get under the bead to pry it off.

A rim liner is used on 21" T wire wheels to protect the tube from possible rough ends of the welded spokes. Henry never used any liner on new, smooth clincher rims. The somewhat rusted ones we have available can benefit from a liner. Duct tape and others will work, but they are messy to cleanup the old adhesive when fitting a new layer on a refit. The rubber car/bicycle tube sources of rim liners are easy to fit, and remove and they can be used over and over.
Allan from down under.

Duct tape and others will work, but they are messy to cleanup the old adhesive when fitting a new layer on a refit.

Another problem with duct tape is that under some conditions it will dry out and come unstuck.

I just mounted 4 new smooth gray tires on a set of newly restored Budd Clincher wire wheels. I pondered over flaps or no flaps.

Now 1st, of course you need to make a relief for the inner tube stem.I decided to try something better than cutting the bead away with a knife, I had a tapered carbide machining cutter. I put the tire casing in one of my large vises then used a pair of vise grips to keep the beads tight to each other. Using the carbide tool in a highspeed grinder I was able to make a very accurate relief for the stems.

Having the tire in the vise and both beads together I measured the width of both beads under bead and miked the recess of the tire where it fits tight against the rim lip. Those dimensions were the same. I removed the vise grips to make the dimensions accurate.

My point here is that when the tire is inflated to 50 pounds the beads are snugged together and there is no way the inner tube can creep out. I decided to eliminate buying and installing flaps. Of course keeping the tire at the recommended tire pressure to keep the tire expanded tight against the bead seat.Going on a tour is a few weeks and I will report how it all works out.

I had a conversation with Mike Lesniack a while back and he gave me his thoughts regarding flaps and how tight the beads are with a tire inflated.

frontyboy.

I wouldn’t consider going without the thick, tube protecting flaps. If you are lucky enough the have smooth, rust free rims, the flaps might not be needed, but the majority of century old Model T rims that have been exposed to many decades of rain and mud, are badly rusted. With this rust come sharp edged pits that can puncture the tube that rub against the rough interior of the rim. Also, in using tire irons over the years, to remove and install the tires, the steel rims are sometimes gouged, creating sharp edges that, if not filed smooth, will puncture the tubes. Even if the inside of the rim is not severely rusted, the friction caused by the tube constantly rubbing across the rim can rub through the tube causing a puncture. In tucking the flap over the tube and under the beads, it I’ll protect the tube from being pinched between the bead and rim during installation. Jim Patrick

I replaced my tires five years ago and used motorcycle rim strips instead of flaps on my 1915 non-demountable wheels. I drive most every day and no problems yet. bobt

I simply prefer to use the flaps. I installed flaps AND rim liners on my rusted and pitted split rims in 1970 and they protected the tubes for 52 years. On a cost to benefit ratio, flaps are not costly when considering the protection they provide. As Alan said duct tape is messy. It can shift and is not as durable as flaps and, unlike flaps, duct tape will not prevent tubes from being pinched between the beads and rims. Jim Patrick

Let's talk about Mystery oil and engine lubricants too!

Soak your rusty old rims in Marvel Mystery Oil for a week, then file all sharp projections down smooth, keeping your single cut file wet with MMO. Then wash the rims with solvent and bead blast them. If they're really pitted, you might use high build primer on them, or Bondo them, then smooth the Bondo with a body file. Another option would be to bead blast, then have them hot dip galvanized. Heavily corroded rims are best replaced, if possible.

bobt wrote: ↑

Fri Jul 22, 2022 6:03 am

I replaced my tires five years ago and used motorcycle rim strips instead of flaps on my 1915 non-demountable wheels. I drive most every day and no problems yet. bobt

I thought something felt odd when we were riding in it last Saturday and now I know why!

One gallon per quart of oil will keep your valves free

This oil.

Follow up on tire flaps. I appreciate all, or at least most, of the responses to my post regarding mounting new tires, tubes, and thick rubber flaps. In the midst of this update I can't see the responses to thank the person who suggested a youtube video in which a guy mounts a (motorcycle) tire using heavy zippy ties. I gave it a shot, and it worked well. It didn't make the job easy, but possible.
I got a bag (on sale) of heavy 20" zip ties, evenly spaced 8 around my seriously powdered tire/tube/flap assemblies, tire soaped the crap out of them, and popped'em on with a couple of 24" HF tire irons. I tightened each tie up with a knee on either side of each tie to close the tire on the flap/tube assy as much as possible prior to the install. I also clamped the tire up tight to the wheel on either side of the valve stem. Once the tire was on, I cut the zippy ties close to the bead on one side and pulled them out, grabbing with channel locks to roll and lever the ties out.
Two issues to keep in mind. First, the flap holds the valve stem tighter than without the flap, I needed to pry around the tires on one side then the other to keep the valve stem straight. Second, The two zippy ties farthest from the valve stem (hence the last to get popped into the rim) seem to take more of a beating than the rest as those broke at even with the rim, I reached in with some long nose plyers and they came right out.
The advantage being that the ties kept the tire/tube/flap together as a fairly tight assembly rather than the flap pulling farther and farther out to the tire as I pryed my way around.
Thanks again for the suggestions, especially the unnamed hero who suggested the video.
Maury Dean

Maury, I can only say the flap will not come out of the tyre as you lever it on if you don't use it in the first place. No flap, no worries with it being displaced.
Your use of the clamps either side of the valve stem makes the job much easier.

Allan from down under.

I use flaps on mine, for no other reason then, the tubes I have been getting are smaller than they should be. Have a devil of a time keeping the tube stuffed in the tire while trying to mount them. For some of us that still working with tires more than a few years old and have to fight them on the rim, flaps protect the tubes from the tire irons and getting pinched.