Identifying Build Year

[Teamcsa]

After some research & consequent discussions in the Forum, I am beginning to think that the Town Car being restored by us, is not a true 1916. I believe the last of the Town cars were manufactured in 1918. The Town car here has a bonnet hood profile and engine which corresponds to post 1922. Therefore, there were some modifications made by someone else at some part of her life. The owner wishes that we restore it as it is.

Meanwhile, I have a question for you. The Engine number of the Town car here is 2PS (or is it 2 P5). The Chassis number is 12011 PS (or is it P5). My question is whether anyone can help me identify the exact build year of the engine as wel as the car?

Picture of the Town Car before we began restoration is attached

I shall appreciate an early reply.

Thanks in advance

Ananth

[Kerry]

Those numbers would be of no help, not Ford factory, US or Canadian.

[MWalker]

The cowl, firewall, radiator and its shell, and splash apron all point to 1924-25, not 1916. The fenders are 1917-25; can't narrow them down any closer from this angle. So the post-'22 engine might be the correct one for the car.` The engine number will be just above the water inlet on the passenger's side (for RHD) of the engine block.

[MWalker]

p.s. -- The front spring is 1917 or later, and the wishbone and spring perches are 1919 or later. All the parts I can see in the one pic fall into place for a 1924-25 Ford.

[Steve Jelf]

I agree with Mike on 1924-1925. The radiator apron first appeared on 1924 models, and it looks like a high radiator, also a new feature for 1924. Look at the hand brake quadrant. If it has four rivets the frame is 1924 or before. Two rivets indicate 1925. You're right about the car being altered, the main alteration being turning it into a town car. Those are not Model T wheels, of course. They look like some kind of 1930 or later truck wheels. Pictures of the engine compartment from both sides, the springs, controls, etc., will help to identify the various parts. After 90+ years many of these cars contain a mixture of pieces, and some are real parts salads, so you have to identify individual parts if you aim to make it "correct", or at least know what you have. When you find the engine serial number we'll know the assembly date, but that doesn't mean that the engine is original to this car. It may or may not be.

[John kuehn]

Are we completely sure the cowl is a 24-25? The cowls on the 24-25 closed cars had a cowl vent in them. This one doesn’t. The open cars in 24-25 didn’t have a cowl vent. So what year is the cowl. Probably need some measurements to be sure if it is a high cowl car. It does look like it is does have a high cowl. Maybe. It could be a low cowl car and the way the pic was taken it looks higher. Opinions? The car might be a mixed up something or other.

[Ruxstel24]

Definitely a bitsa salad...not that it makes it less fun.
A steel firewall would have to be a high cowl ?
Most things look newer than 19.
Could be a later cowl with just a towncar windshield, need more pics !

[John kuehn]

I just did an internet search using the search term “ Model T Town car”.
When the search comes up All kind of pics come up with T’s being identified as town cars in all kind of configurations.
Some look customized back in the day. The car in question in the post looks to be a mixture of early and later parts. Hard to tell for sure without more pics of the sides and back of the body.

[Derek Kiefer]

Everything from the front doors forward appears to be 1925 based on the equal-length door hinges, high cowl, tall radiator, radiator apron, and the shape of the front fenders where they meet the apron. (wheels and windshield excluded)

[John kuehn]

After blowing up the photo a bit you can see the left ear on the transmission cover as you look through the firewall opening. Just a bit more of what appears to be a put together car. Maybe. The engine serial will tell more of the story.

[Kerry]

I don't think much more can be learnt about this T that hasn't already been covered each time it's posted. if anyone wants extra photo's then look up on the forum,
1916 Ford Landaulette- Aug 30 2017
1916 Ford Town Car- Feb 26 2018
and again in Feb 28 2019

[Wayne Sheldon]

Zooming in on the nice detailed enlargeable photo, a few details can be seen. The firewall clearly is of the '24/'25 style high cowl, and appears to fit with the rest of the body. The fenders appear to be '24ish, not stepped out wider as most '25s were (if I have that detail straight?), but with the folded front edge to match against the radiator lower "shield". The interesting detail I spotted is that the windshield frame brackets are of the riveted 1915/'16/ early '17 style. Whether these were used originally because of the original state of the body? Or because they happened to be available? Or due to where the car was manufactured? It is all up to wild speculation unless more history becomes known. I don't know if the windshield frame itself is Ford issue or not.
The body could very well be a "local" custom build. Local being wherever it may have been built? Given the car's current location in the world, it could have come from almost anywhere! Being a former state of the British Empire, it could very easily have come from either the English manufacturing plant, or from Canadian production. Looking for various "Made In -" markings could answer that much of it. I am not very sharp on English built Ts (although I think most of them are beautiful!). I can't say what to look at to determine those. It is also quite possible that the chassis at least could have come from either Danish/European sources or even American factories.
The angle of the photo doesn't give much about the body. But what I can see, it looks like a well made custom, that probably hasn't been butchered much since it was built. The areas between the front and rear doors appears nicely made and fitting well. The upswing on that panel looks nicely made. I also wonder if the rear part of the body might have been re-purposed from an earlier carriage of some sort.
Regardless, a wonderful car with so much potential!

[George Mills]

These might help...

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/70 ... 1506117867

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/82 ... 1519629690

[D Stroud]

Dave H., there are low steel firewalls too. I think they came out in '23 and were most likely used as replacements for the wood firewalls as they deteriorated. I've seen an awful lot of them over the years. Dave

[Steve Jelf]

... there are low steel firewalls too.

My April 1923 touring has one.