MTFCA Forum

So I just got my oil pan blasted so I could see what was hiding under all the 100 plus years of dirt and grime.

I was quite pleased so far. No areas of rust out,
The oil pan has the reinforced ear brackets on the inside, one was missing. Didn’t see the other one since it was covered by all the grime. There is only about three areas of brazing on the ear, did notice one crack on the ear though, but can’t tell if it’s the brazing or the ear. I do have a set of three rivet ears I was thinking of using as replacements on this pan or seeing if I could have this 7 rivet ear recasted at my local foundry. Thoughts?

Pan ears, arms? "Recast" Just wanting clarification.
Are you missing the one arm? The one you show closeups of has some rust damage, however I don't consider that much really significant.
I would consider brazing over some of the worst pitting as that not only prevents further damage, but strengthens the damaged area. I sometimes place a shaped steel rod (or a couple smaller rods?) inside the "valley" on the outside of the arm and partially fill with braze to repair cracked or heavily rusted arms. The strengthening repair is pretty much out of sight once the engine is installed in the frame.
The early (1912 and earlier) arms are different in shape and details than the later (1913 even) arms. I would use a proper early one if you have one. Later ones can be altered and detailed with some effort enough to not usually be noticed. No hole in the center of the rivet area can be pieced in. Lower trim shape is slightly different on some later arms, and a big squared off difference on others. But still with a bit of creativity can be altered. And of course, the extra rivet holes and locations.
One other detail, is that the earlier pans had tapered "feet" where they sit upon the top of the frame. Not easy to rig up and do (I have not yet needed to), but that could be clamped onto some heavy iron, heated red hot and hammered into a tapered shape, then trimmed to finish the shape.

That pan looks really good for such an early one! I have three of them I had to do a LOT more repair work to in order to use them.
My two with the early longer nose casting had the part circling the drain hole broken, although still held in place by braze. My 1915 pan had the front of the engine mount casting hacksawed off! I had a NOS replacement, which after about two hours of hard effort to replace it? I discovered the casting was defective and the hand crank was WAY CROOKED! So another hour or two to heat and bend the nose casting and line up the crank (THAT was fun.).

Fun stuff!

I don't think those pan arms are cast. They are a steel pressing. I guess you could use a casting to create the image of the original one, but you would need an original to use for the sample to make the cast one.

Wayne, yes I only have one arm. The other is missing completely. It looks as if perhaps someone took it off to do a restoration on this pan but was never finished. The brazing looks the same on each side with three points of brazing. One spot of brazing on each side and the bottom of each arm.

Thanks for posting those pictures Mike. I had no idea the pan arms (ears) were engineered so differently than, for instance, my ‘14. Was only aware of “teacup” and “alligator nose”. I learned sumpin

Mike, two things to watch on replacement arms. Later arms off pans that have the edge strengthened with the roll down on the outside are longer between the frame mounting to the pressing that goes under the pan rail, to accommodate that rolled edge.

Secondly, the difference in the two ridges on the frame rail end. Wayne mentioned these. They are the usual height at the bend, but taper down towards the outside of the frame. This taper is not all that hard to fudge. I used a hacksaw to cut a vee piece out of the ridge. From memory the vee was 1/8" wide on the outside end. With heat you can bring the sides together. this naturally reduces the height of the ridge to produce the correct taper. Then just weld the cut shut and file finish.

Another poster mentioned bending filler rods to lay in the ridges. These are very good insurance/repair against cracked arms. Bronze them in from the underside and they are un-noticeable .

Hope this helps,
Allan from down under.

Mike for what it’s worth, you’ve probably already noticed that the 7 rivet pan is thin. They are prone to crack at the intersection of the block and hogshead. I’d encourage you to use the later L shaped supports even though not correct they will add support to an already thin area. Like it’s been said it’s fairly easy to fake the arm but it will take some cutting and a torch to help along the way. Hey your building a commercial body and the arm is no step for a climber like you.
Best John

Maybe it's me, but the ears/arms look ok by my bad eyes!! Seems just the pan needs a little TLC, like John said, they're thin!

Well I will say that the earlier pan has better looking brazing than the later. It looks like they took a little more time. It’s doesn’t look it was mopped and slopped on like the later ones.
It does seem though the later pans were a gauge or two thicker than the earlier ones. I have the later 17-25 T’s and I guess along the way Ford started making T’s a little less flimsy than the early ones. Good luck.

Looks like you have your work cut out for you. I'd find another tapered bottom ear, and add the necessary holes, and find the rivets too. I'd repair that existing crack. After you get the new rivets in, I would certainly have the pan checked in a crankcase jig to make sure everything is in alignment. Like mentioned above I use the late reinforcing brackets in the corners on both of my 13's. You have to oblong some of the holes, and do some filing to get them to fit. They won't just drop in.

Make sure the horizontal of the ear measures the same distance from the lip of the on both sides. If not the engine will set at a slight angle. Care to guess how I know?

My guess is you used an arm off a later pan.The measurements differ because the later ears have to clear the rolled outer edge of the pan. Fit a later ear up to an early pan rail and the horizontal surface on the ear will be higher, by about 1/4".I have been there and nearly did that.

Allan from down under.

Upon further inspection the crack on the arm is into the pan itself. I just could not see the other side of the crack because it is covered up by the reinforcement plate. I also noticed that the arm itself is somewhat bent/twisted. So whatever happened the force of the arm getting bent caused the brazing to crack and pull on the pan and put a small crack in the pan. My plan is to probably try to straighten the arm up, fix the crack and leave that arm on. I was re-reading through Mark Herdmans post about pan changes he posted a few years back and have dated my pan to be about mid to late 1912 and found the part number for the pan assembly T 1526 E and the arms appear to be part number T-815 A. I going to see if I can secure the parts drawings and then modify an existing tapered arm to match and or make one… yes I’m a glutton to doing things the hard way …

Good for you Mike! You have it apart now. Do it right while you still can.

If you just put on a three rivet arm and call it good, one day you will come across the remains of the correct pan arm, the engine and car will be all put back together and the last thing you are going to want to do is to pull the engine out, take the pan off to restore it the right way.

I am glad you are doing it the right way instead of the easy way.

: ^ )

Keith

With your good original as a pattern to follow, it shouldn't be very difficult to modify a later one to be so close in fit and appearance that almost nobody could tell them apart once rivetted onto the pan.
CHECK ALL DIMENSIONS! Up/down and side/side dimensions could be slightly different. Check from a fixed point on the surface of the pan where the hogshead sits.
It is very likely that holes for rivets will have to be filled and drilled to put them where they need to be. Additional brazing is usually a good idea for strength and preventing oil leaks on the early pans. Hot oil has a nasty way of finding its way around.

And double check that arm position up and down relative to the pan (as well as side clearance!). Remember. With pan arms, measure twice, rivet once.