MTFCA Forum

I have noticed an odd situation with rear spring for my 1927 coupe. The end of second leaf on the right side is not in contact with the bottom leaf. The attached photo show the situation.

While not shown in the photos, there is a slight wear pattern on top of the bottom spring below the end of the second leaf.

Is this problem??

That may have resulted many years ago when your T hit a bad pothole. It looks like the second leaf is bent up a little. I would put a 2”x 4” block crossways under the point where the bend starts and, using your entire weight, with one foot on one side of the 2x4 and the other foot on the tip of the leaf, apply a controlled downward pressure to the tip until the bend is out and the leaf fits the bottom leaf properly. If you have trouble doing it by yourself, have a helper use his weight on the leaf inside the block while you apply downward pressure to the leaf tip. Do not apply heat. Do this cold. Jim Patrick

Those are plenty tired, and one is bent as noted by Jim

They should not "nest" in their free state, rather the ends of each subsequent leaf should rest on the top of the preceding leaf and take quite a significant draw-up pressure via all-thread rod to get them to stack properly and insert the center bolt.

specs:

Main leaf length 45-1/4" (center of "eye" to center of "eye")
Main leaf height 10-1/2"
2nd leaf length 43-3/8"
3rd leaf length 36-9/16"
4th leaf length 30-3/8"
5th leaf length 24-7/8"
6th leaf length 19-3/4"
7th leaf length 15-1/16"
8th leaf length 12-3/9"

Scott, What are you seeing that makes you say "those are plenty tired"?

Scott is right. Those leafs are tired and should not fit so close before securing. My front springs were weak that way so I put a block at the tips of each leaf with the curve facing down and, one at a time, I stepped up on center of the leaf and with my weight, gradually put more curve in each leaf. After doing each leaf, I put them against eachother and had 1/2” to 3/4” space between the centers of each leaf. With a revived spring, the ride was much smoother. You can revive your rear spring by doing this with each leaf. I would be happy with 1/2” to 3/4” between each leaf when stacked together before securing with a rear spring bolt through the center. Again, do it cold. Jim Patrick

PS. Look at Neal Wilford’s rear spring compared to yours. His has a lot more space between each leaf. Looking at Neal’s rear spring, perhaps 1” between each leaf looks to be a better space.

Springs that can be re-arched without heat AND re-tempering will probably not hold up well in service.

Did you see the spring before the body was removed? Do you remember if it was like that before it was disassembled? From the appearance now, it looks like that leaf is bent. I don't know how that happened. Maybe something or someone very heavy sat or was carried on that side of the car over a very bumpy road. Or possibly an accident caused it? Was that same spring on that same car before it was taken apart? I would suggest that you try to straighten it or if you can find a better spring use the better spring.
Norm

Norman, The first photo shows the spring on the chassis. The gap between the ends of the bottom and second leaf on the right is visible.

I have looked in Lang's and Snyder's catalogs. Neither list a 8 leaf rear spring for a 1927 coupe. They both list a 8 leaf for the front. I wonder why.

What measurements can I make to check the front spring?

I have always suggested reusing the original parts of your T as opposed to replacing with new parts, especially on your car, which started out as the nicest all original T I have ever seen in which all steel parts can be re-used, except the parts that deteriorate such as wiring, rubber and upholstery. Your original Ford script rear spring is fine and can be revived by re-arching one leaf at a time as I said. No need to go through the unnecessary expense of buying new, inferior recreations. It took 95 years of driving with the majority of driving on primitive, pot holed roads to bring it to the point it is. Once re-arched and driving on todays smooth, paved streets, your rear spring is unlikely to ever lose it’s strength. If you are worried about doing it yourself as I described, you can take the leafs to a machine shop and have them re-arch each leaf of your rear leaf (and front leaf, if you choose), using a powerful hydraulic press. Jim Patrick

I saw the first picture and can see how it is bent. What I meant was while the body was still on. Anyway, it would be a good idea to fix it before you put the body back on. It might run fine just as it is, but the car could lean to one side.
Norm

Bruce. While I would re-arch each leaf of the rear spring myself as I did my front spring using the method I described earlier, everyone is different and you may not feel comfortable in doing it yourself, even though whatever you do could not hurt and would only help (as long as you did not use heat). The best way to increase your comfort level is to find out as much about an unfamiliar procedure is to research it. Research the re-arching of leaf springs by going to your search engine and search: “Leaf springs re-arched” or “Re-arching leaf springs”. There might even be someone near you that can do it for you if you still have not attained the necessary comfort level. Find out as much as you can in your quest to get this done properly. Jim Patrick

Here is detailed information for my springs.

The numbers on the right side are the lengths of each leaf.


Comments?

Very good looking springs. While the springs are on the paper, go ahead and outline them so once you re-arch the leafs, you can see if there is a difference in the arc of the springs. Everything I said before still stands. First thing you need to do is take the upward bend out of the second from the bottom spring as spelled out earlier. It appears that the bend starts to bend up at the end of the third from the bottom spring. You should mark it with masking tape so you will know where to position the block under the leaf before taking the upward bend out. Jim Patrick

How many leafs should a rear spring for a 1927 coupe have? I have checked with three suppliers, and they only have eight leaf springs for 1926/1927. Mine has eight. I would appreciate owners of 1927 coupes checking both the front and rear springs and giving the numbers.

Front: 8 and Rear 8 for the 1926-‘27 coupe. Jim Patrick

I made a mistake! It should read "and they only have nine leaf springs springs for 1926/1927."

Go to the MTFCA Encyclopedia. Under 1926-‘27 springs, it says that in 1926-‘27, the springs had 8 leafs for all styles except for the sedans (Fordor and Tudor sedans), which had 9 leafs, so the springs for your 1927 coupe, are correct in having 8 leafs. Jim Patrick.

Yes, it looks a little tired when stacked loosely. It's not new after all... It actually does appear to have a good arch when assembled however. (Just going by the visual of your photo and not the dimensions.)

If it were mine, I'd either seek out another 2nd leaf, or straighten the end on the one you've got.

Bruce

If you are thinking of perhaps buying a new spring, call one of the suppliers which you like and ask them about the option of purchasing a spring and then removing the smallest leaf yourself. I am betting that "correct" or not, it will ride just fine, and fit like it should after doing that. Or, alternately and perhaps a better choice would be to measure each leaf, compare to dimensions given to you previously and perhaps you will determine that some other leaf has to "go".

Myself, I'd simply "tweak" each leaf of the spring I had, in a cheap arbor press and be done with it. No, cold pressing the leaves will not last for 90+ years, but neither will I.

Scott, In one of your posts, you gave some information under the heading of "specs". Where was this info from? The info is different than mine as can be seen in the data I showed.

https://www.macsautoparts.com/modelt_specs#rearspring

I am going to assume that the listed measurements are at least close, if not completely correct, and reflect a free-state measurement of each leaf prior to bolting up and "spreading out". I do not consider MAC's to necessarily be the final word on things but there are not many sources of this information out there that do not involve empirical measurements taken from springs of unknown vintage or health.

It has been years since I restored a spring, and am not sure what I used at the time to guide my cold re-arching of my springs...if I could remember, I'd let you know, but I cannot. I do know that when I was done, it took a fairly long length of all-thread to capture all of the leaves and get them seated...certainly none of them self-stacked in place. I think what you're seeing right now is likely typical of as-is 90 year old springs and they may be a bit wimpy if left in that state...a matter of opinion from general exposure to things mechanical, but not from an in-depth experience of many spring rebuilds. I do, however expect a great many folks would agree in part or in total of that assessment.

In the photo that shows the dimensions of my rear spring, it shows the eye to eye measurement of the rear spring to be 43 3/4 " after tightening. The shackle to shackle measurement is 45". A difference of 1 3/4". Is this unusual?

How can I make the connection? Snyder's has a spring spreader. Is that what I will have to get or is there another way to install the spring?

Normal. Loosen the nuts that hold the perches so they are holding by only a few threads. Move the perches inward toward the center. Move the rear axel to a height where the shackles will slip in. That's it.

I place the eye of the spring in one side with the shackle. I jack up the body to get the weight completely off the spring then put short piece of 2"x4" under the spring eye on each side. Between the spring and the axle housing. Then let down the body and frame on the axle. If it doesn't spread, add some weight to the body such as someone in the back seat or a fly wheel etc. When you get the weight just right the shackle will slide in on the other side. When you have everything tightened up, jack the frame just enough to get the wood out and let it down.
Norm

Richard, I have disc brakes so loosening the perches would involve taking them off.

Norman, The body is not on the frame so I will not have its weight to help in installing the spring as you describe'

I had an error in my earlier post where I said there is 1 3/4" between the spring and the shackle. The gap is 1 1/4".

I knew there would be some gab but is 1 1/4" unusual?

Has anyone used the tool to extend the spring?

I made my own spreader with a piece of 1/2" pipe & some 1/2" all-thread & a couple nuts and flat washer - I ground down one end of the pipe to "catch" one of the top housing bolts then swedged a 1/2" connector to a point to catch the spring eye - piece of cake !

I used Jim Patrick's method to straighten the end of the second lead. It worked fine. Thanks Jim!

Excellent, Bruce. Looks great! Jim Patrick

The attached photos show close ups of the straightened second leaf. Should I have tried to straighten it more?

The second photo shows the first, second, and third leaf.

That looks fine to me. When the weight of the car is on the spring, it will settle like it should. If it doesn't right away, it will after you drive a few miles. You will probably need to retighten the clamps that hold the springs to the front & rear crossmembers after 50 miles or so of driving. The spring leaves and clamps will need a few miles in service to "bed in". It's a good idea to go over the entire car after driving it 50 miles or so. Check all bolts, nuts, and screws to be sure they are still snug. Pay special attention to chassis fasteners and lug nuts. Doors, deck lid, fender bolts, etc may need minor adjustment.

Whenever I have to ask if I should have straightened the spring leaf more, knowing myself, deep down, I know that I should have and will not be happy until I undertake to straighten the leaf until the end of the leaf is sitting on the leaf below as I know it should be. The end of the spring is where the strength is. If I didn’t straighten it to my satisfaction, it would bother me every time I looked at it. Now is the time to do it, if you’re gonna. Jim Patrick