MTFCA Forum

Got some USED TIMERS in the mail. The contact rings look serviceable. I might get some rollers and test them out.

Second timer on the right I attempted to polish. Both looked like the last picture when I started

That is excellent. Get all the good out of them. Check the rollers and pins. They are the next to wear out. I wore out 3 rollers in one timer on a tour due to worn out pins. Too many good timers have been discarded. Some only need better insulation around the terminals.
I'd love to find some of those reasonably for sale.
Good Luck!
Rich

Rich Eagle wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:23 pm

That is excellent. Get all the good out of them. Check the rollers and pins. They are the next to wear out. I wore out 3 rollers in one timer on a tour due to worn out pins.
TmtRllr.jpg
Too many good timers have been discarded. Some only need better insulation around the terminals.
I'd love to find some of those reasonably for sale.
Good Luck!
Rich

I got 11 of them for the price of shipping. None had rollers. New rollers are 25 bucks.

Will_Vanderburg wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:35 pm

Rich Eagle wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:23 pm

That is excellent. Get all the good out of them. Check the rollers and pins. They are the next to wear out. I wore out 3 rollers in one timer on a tour due to worn out pins.
TmtRllr.jpg
Too many good timers have been discarded. Some only need better insulation around the terminals.
I'd love to find some of those reasonably for sale.
Good Luck!
Rich

I got 11 of them for the price of shipping. None had rollers. New rollers are 25 bucks.

Will, great job on cleaning up. I agree with Rich, plenty of life and serviceability in these old timers! Not trying to misdirect your post, but if you are looking for rollers, please let me know. I have several that are taking up shelf space and will cut you a deal compared to that $25 list price.

Andy

What is important is the smoothness & concentricity of the contact & insulator rings.
They will need to be trued up on a lathe. They must be PERFECT or the roller will bounce @ the higher rpm range.
What do they look like inside? pix?

Speedy,

The insulators on these two look very smooth and round with no ridges or gouges. Lite surface rust on the interior body

A lathe is out of the question.

Will_Vanderburg wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 6:12 pm

Speedy,

The insulators on these two look very smooth and round with no ridges or gouges. Lite surface rust on the interior body

A lathe is out of the question.

Maybe you found some rusty NOS units. Fantastic find.

I have found new, out of the box timers not good enough & needing a slight clean up.
A high metal edge, a slightly v'd contact plate, high or low contact plates & off center bodies.
At least check it real close with a caliper all around @ about 8 places.

Just a friendly suggestion.

Some of the ones I got the insulation ring is broken at the contacts. I don’t think those can be saved. I do have a “new” insulation ring I might put in

With respect, anything that has been made can be repaired...and while it may not merit the cost involved, the insulator portion is not a terribly difficult item to reproduce...just sayin'...

Those are "Tiger" timers - if the insulator ring is a dark maroon, those would be "era" - if the insulator is more orange, that would be a more recent repro.

RajoRacer wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 8:34 pm

Those are "Tiger" timers - if the insulator ring is a dark maroon, those would be "era" - if the insulator is more orange, that would be a more recent repro.

The insulators are dark

Retro54 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:44 pm

Will_Vanderburg wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:35 pm

Rich Eagle wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:23 pm

That is excellent. Get all the good out of them. Check the rollers and pins. They are the next to wear out. I wore out 3 rollers in one timer on a tour due to worn out pins.
TmtRllr.jpg
Too many good timers have been discarded. Some only need better insulation around the terminals.
I'd love to find some of those reasonably for sale.
Good Luck!
Rich

I got 11 of them for the price of shipping. None had rollers. New rollers are 25 bucks.

Will, great job on cleaning up. I agree with Rich, plenty of life and serviceability in these old timers! Not trying to misdirect your post, but if you are looking for rollers, please let me know. I have several that are taking up shelf space and will cut you a deal compared to that $25 list price.

Andy

Sent you a message.

Will_Vanderburg wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:04 am

Retro54 wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:44 pm

Will_Vanderburg wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 07, 2022 5:35 pm

I got 11 of them for the price of shipping. None had rollers. New rollers are 25 bucks.

Will, great job on cleaning up. I agree with Rich, plenty of life and serviceability in these old timers! Not trying to misdirect your post, but if you are looking for rollers, please let me know. I have several that are taking up shelf space and will cut you a deal compared to that $25 list price.

Andy

Sent you a message.

Replied

This one turned out better than the other three

Some years ago there were several Forum posts showing a homemade jig used with a Dremel to clean up the inside of Ford timers. Essentially a plywood router table supporting the Dremel and two stops (flat washers held in place with deck screws) against which the outside edge of the timer case was rotated. The layout of stops formed an equilateral triangle- two stops and the point of abrasive wheel contact with the inside of the timer forming the three points of the triangle. Small changes of the position of either stop was sufficient to adjust the depth of cut, only one stop needed to be 'adjustable'.
You set the guides for the depth of cut desired and the guides kept the spindle (and restored contacts/insulator surface) concentric with the timer case. I looked for a pic and post but couldn't find it, sorry. If you have a less good junk timer to experiment on, I believe this method can be perfected and will give decent results. Numerous light cuts will give best results. fwiw, jb

Lots of good comments about the timer case and the rollers but nothing about the O.D of the actual timer case and concentricity and wear in the timing cover. I just measured 7 used roller timers and the O.D varies by 0.040", so some will have obvious slop in a non-worn timing cover. Now add on any wear in the timing cover plus any misalignment and all the work to get the actual timer and rolled perfect is out the window. I found one perfect combination where an almost new TW timer and a very nice used timing cover mated with 0.002" clearance but that's not too common. Personally I prefer the New Day timers as any radial issues don't enter the equation and there shouldn't be much end to end play in a decent motor anyway and the brush spring takes care of that.

As I mentioned earlier, a square up on a lathe will get them perfect, some better than new. I have a special jig that fits into my lathe. Worn bodies get an armature type sharp cutter. New & very little worn I use a fixtured sanding drum in a die grinder to square them up. They got to be perfect to prevent roller bounce thru the whole operating speed range.

Bruce Compton wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 20, 2022 1:36 pm

Lots of good comments about the timer case and the rollers but nothing about the O.D of the actual timer case and concentricity and wear in the timing cover. I just measured 7 used roller timers and the O.D varies by 0.040", so some will have obvious slop in a non-worn timing cover. Now add on any wear in the timing cover plus any misalignment and all the work to get the actual timer and rolled perfect is out the window. I found one perfect combination where an almost new TW timer and a very nice used timing cover mated with 0.002" clearance but that's not too common. Personally I prefer the New Day timers as any radial issues don't enter the equation and there shouldn't be much end to end play in a decent motor anyway and the brush spring takes care of that.

You are absolutely correct.
A worn timing cover has to be addressed. Timer bodies vary depending on not only wear, but different manufactures whims.
Timer bodies can be expanded/flaired for a good /tight fit. This is done before the re machining/squaring process.
New days dont have the brush/roller bounce issue, but do have consistent time of fire issues. Perfection here requires precision machining of
groves on either side of the contacts. Thes groves control timing & carbon deposits.

John, tell me more about milling grooves in the New Day timers. Maybe a picture.....All the well used ones I've seen have a major wear area at the leading side of the contact brass that sometimes I'm able to fix, but some are just too deep.

These are as good as they will ever get with me. I am not going to procure a lathe. The four I’ve done have round insulation rings. The other 7 are out of round, dipped, gouged or broken. I do have an unused ring that’s not in a case.

I’ve also heard of the fancy jig using a router or dremel. I’ve went looking for it and in the posts I’ve found, it is mentioned but never shown either in pictures or drawings.

Bruce Compton wrote: ↑

Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:42 pm

John, tell me more about milling grooves in the New Day timers. Maybe a picture.....All the well used ones I've seen have a major wear area at the leading side of the contact brass that sometimes I'm able to fix, but some are just too deep.

The face still needs to be cleaned up flat. If you machine them down too far, about 1/2 way, they will peel away from the body. You already know this.
The groves on the trailing edge are to give a clean break to the current to stop the carbon trailing. The groves in the leading edge are for getting the time to fire correct for all 4 contact plates. The groves are .060-.080 wide & about .030 deep.

Thanks John. What a great forum....you learn something every day.

Here's what I use to true up timer runways. I inherited it from Otis Clinton of Seattle, WA many years ago.

Steve

that's a nice early S/B! I have two, with one being a 1936 version all but identical to yours (right down to the Aloris AXA tooling).

I bought mine from an old friend, deceased now but he purchased two new ones at a school surplus auction around WWII time. This one was slightly used in their gravel co. machine shop for "little" stuff - he sold me this one & bolted his new one to the bench !