MTFCA Forum

This is related to my other post "Rear Spring--Odd Situation", it was getting long.

There are 14 end of leaf locations on the rear spring. At 8 locations, there is good contact. In the other 6 locations, there is a "gap" as shown in the attached 5 photos (did not include the sixth location due to restriction to five photos per post -it is at the end of the leaf that I straightened).

I assume it is not unusual to have some of these type of gaps, and that it is not a significant problem. Correct??

Looks like that spring is off the car. So there is no weight on it. Were these springs on your car before being removed, or have they been assembled from several other springs by using the best leaves? It's hard to till how they would fit if installed on a complete car with the actual body weight on them..
Norm

I'd say correct. It's not a problem. Sometimes when you put them back together just randomly they'll do that worse than if you try to figure out which way they originally went. Sometimes one side is bent a little bit more than the other side and they sort of need to all Nest together on the same side as they were originally assembled. When I take them apart I put a little hacksaw mark on the end that I can see which side they were originally on after they're painted, that way I don't have to guess later which way the originally went or which side they were originally on. I don't know if that would help you or not.

John, makes a good point. The leaves of the spring need to be marked before it is taken apart, especially with rear springs with their 3 separate bends to the leaves. I mark them with a centre punch on the side of each leaf, adjacent to the centre bolt. These punch marks disappear into the cross member when the spring is installed. When reassembling the spring you have a marker to tell how each relates to its neighbour in the stack. If any of the leaves was installed 180* about face there is a likelihood that they would not nestle as they should.

Allan from down under.

I marked the leafs with a punch before I took them apart, so they are in their original position.

I'd put it under the car and run it 50 miles or so. I think you'll find it works just fine.

Here is a stupid thought. The gaps create a progressive-rate spring. The first leaf or two soak up the small bumps. As weight increases or road conditions worsen, other leaves add stiffness when you need it. This could give you a better ride.

Your spring my have suffered a once in a lifetime trauma, such as going down a terribly rough road at speed during an emergency, or into a ditch at an angle, suffering that damage. With today’s roads And the great care with which you plan to treat your T, I doubt if your car will ever suffer such trauma again. Now is the time to repair each leaf properly so that the point of each leaf is sitting on top of the below leaf. I would not tolerate any end gaps that could lead to a weakness to one side that would prevent the body from sitting level from side to side. Jim Patrick

Jim, I was comfortable straightening the second leaf shown here, as you recommended, but I am hesitant to try to get the six ends in contact. Straightening the second leaf was accomplished by cantilevering the end about six inches and applying pressure to the end. It appears getting the six ends in contact would involve a short cantilever and would be very difficult to accomplish.

Bruce, the spring worker I watched re arch the spring in my 1912 van laid the leaves over a swedge block and beat on them with a 3-4lb sledge hammer which had a rounded cross pein on the back side. He would have sat the end of your leaf on one rest and pounded the bend further back along the leaf. Watching him work was magic. He held the leaf over the block with one hand and pounded with the other. Tried it for fit and pounded again if needed.
He used the same technique to re-arch a replacement leaf to match the rest of the spring. Like many things these days, that springworks has closed, subsumed under motorway works.

Allan from down under

Are the gaps on my spring a significant problem??

I don't think they are. I'd be more worried about the temper of the leaves, and how the spring got in that condition to begin with. If I was going to do anything more to it before installing it, I'd replace the main leaf with a new one.

Yes. Any deviation from the norm is a problem. Every spring I have ever seen has the ends of each leaf sitting on the top of the underlying leaf and when taking the spring apart, the leafs do not stay together. Ideally, there is a uniform space of about 3/8” between each leaf as the leafs separate. If there are no spaces, and the spring leafs fit flush against eachother, even when the bolt has been loosened, the spring action will be weak. These spaces are why a long bolt is needed to pull the leafs together until the leafs are flush together with the ends tight against the top of the underlying leaf. You saw this when you disassembled the spring and saw the imprint or indentation of the end of the overlying leaf in the steel of the underlying leaf. The further from the end of the leaf that the leaf makes contact with the underlying leaf, the weaker the leaf, which could result in an un-level body, a rough ride, or a sway when driving, especially if one side has an upturned end and the other does not. It is not difficult to get it right now instead of realizing you have a big problem after the car is assembled. If heat was never applied, there should be no problem with the temper of the leafs and since your car does not appear to have ever been restored, I don’t think lack of temper is a problem. Just that it may have gone down in a ditch at sometime in the past or had a 300 lb passenger that caused the previous damage to the spring. Back in the 20’s there was a college fad to see how many students they could fit in and on their Model T. This could have resulted in a load exceeding 1,000 lbs or more. These scenarios are not likely to ever happen again, but the spring should be made right to function properly, as intended and now is the time to do it. I would definitely repair the original one and not get a new one. Your spring is precisely designed for the weight of a Model T coupe and a new spring is not. Nobody did it like Ford back in the day when they had a factory set up for it and I like the fact that each leaf is stamped with the Ford Script and that that your spring has travelled through time with the same car since it came off the assembly line 95 years ago. Jim Patrick