Engine Rear Mounting Brackets

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
BLB27
Posts: 878
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:28 pm
First Name: Bruce
Last Name: Brakke
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 coupe
Location: Ames, Iowa
MTFCA Number: 31192

Engine Rear Mounting Brackets

Post by BLB27 » Tue Sep 27, 2022 3:33 pm

I just ran across an article that recommended installing a leather pad between the top of the frame and the rear mounting brackets. Is this a good idea?

User avatar

jsaylor
Posts: 334
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:25 pm
First Name: John
Last Name: Saylor
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1921 Touring, 1927 Tudor
Location: Citrus Heights, Ca
MTFCA Number: 1695
MTFCI Number: 23870
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Engine Rear Mounting Brackets

Post by jsaylor » Tue Sep 27, 2022 5:21 pm

That would make the angle of the pan higher at the rear, so I would add another pad under the front. Then you will need a good-sized ground strap.

User avatar

Humblej
Posts: 1690
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:23 pm
First Name: Jeff
Last Name: Humble
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Canadian built coupe, 1924 TT C-cab, survivor 1924 roadster
Location: Charlevoix, Mi
MTFCA Number: 28034
Board Member Since: 2006

Re: Engine Rear Mounting Brackets

Post by Humblej » Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:12 pm

No, Ford didn't do it. The horizontal bolts will not line up if you raise the ears


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Engine Rear Mounting Brackets

Post by TXGOAT2 » Tue Sep 27, 2022 7:17 pm

They work best the way Henry did it. Remember that the engine also locates the front and rear axles. The flywheel housing portion of the oil pan and the rear pan arms double as a frame crossmember to which the front radius rods and rear axle torque tube and radius rods are attached.


Topic author
BLB27
Posts: 878
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:28 pm
First Name: Bruce
Last Name: Brakke
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1927 coupe
Location: Ames, Iowa
MTFCA Number: 31192

Re: Engine Rear Mounting Brackets

Post by BLB27 » Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:28 pm

Thanks. Good advice. I will not use a pad there!


Allan
Posts: 5201
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: Engine Rear Mounting Brackets

Post by Allan » Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:05 am

I would use insertion rubber rather than leather, if I wanted to use anything.
Many frames will be sagging more than the thickness of the rubber, so adding the pads will likely restore pan/ driveshaft alignment, if that really matters.

Allan from down under.

User avatar

TRDxB2
Posts: 5407
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:56 pm
First Name: Frank
Last Name: Brandi
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Speedster (1919 w 1926)
Location: Moline IL
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Engine Rear Mounting Brackets

Post by TRDxB2 » Thu Sep 29, 2022 2:44 am

What was the reason for putting pads on the engine mounting points in the first place? Was the idea behind it to reduce body vibration?
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger

User avatar

George House
Posts: 2270
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:25 pm
First Name: George
Last Name: House
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: ‘10 Maxwell AA, ‘11Hupp Model 20, Two 1914 Ford runabouts, 19 centerdoor, 25 C Cab,26 roadster
Location: Northern Caldwell County TX
MTFCA Number: 115
MTFCA Life Member: YES
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Engine Rear Mounting Brackets

Post by George House » Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:28 am

I’ve cut out rubber from old truck mud flaps and inserted them under the pan arms. It greatly reduces vibration and changes the geometry not a whit of the front/rear axles or the wishbone and radius rods. Also, the 2 horizontal pan arm bolts perfectly line up.
I don’t know why I turned out this way. My parents were decent people 🤪


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Engine Rear Mounting Brackets

Post by TXGOAT2 » Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:30 am

When Ford decided to make an effort to reduce engine vibration transmitted to the frame, they went well beyond just putting anything like a leather or rubber washer under the pan arms. Take a look at how Ford modified the rear engine mounts on the first Model As, and soon after A production began, they modified the front engine mount, also. It didn't help much. If you want to see a more effective anti-vibration engine mounting arrangement in a Ford chassis, examine the Model B 4 cylinder Ford arrangement. That was a real improvement. Illustrations are available online. The T chassis design does not lend itself to softer motor mounts. For one thing, the frame flange at the rear mount is not wide enough to allow installing an isolated pan arm mounting bolt. An isolated mounting bolt would have rubber or leather under the head and washer, around the shank, and under the nut and washer. Another problem is that the engine also serves as a crossmember to which the front and rear axles are attached. Movement of the engine independent of the frame will allow the axles to wander slightly, which will make the steering less stable. Movement of the pan mounting arm bolt within the bolt hole in the frame will tend to wear the hole in the frame larger, further weakening an already weak and highly stressed point. If you want a smooth running Model T, balance the engine and transmission rotating parts. For best results, add a counterbalanced crankshaft. The front engine mmount on a T is also a good pathway for engine vibration to reach the frame, and it is not easily modified, either.


TXGOAT2
Posts: 6411
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:08 pm
First Name: Pat
Last Name: McNallen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
Location: Graham, Texas
MTFCA Number: 51486
Board Member Since: 2021

Re: Engine Rear Mounting Brackets

Post by TXGOAT2 » Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:26 am

At one time, spring loaded struts were available to put between the frame and the upper part of the engine. (Western Auto Cataloge, 1927) I don't see how they'd do much good, but it looks like a pair could be fabricated. A good way to reduce perceived vibration in a T is to get rid of squeaks and rattles, so far as is possible. A T will ride better and feel tighter with passengers aboard.


Chris Barker
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:08 pm
First Name: Chris
Last Name: Barker
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Coupe
Location: Somerset, Eng;and

Re: Engine Rear Mounting Brackets

Post by Chris Barker » Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:40 am

Introducing pads only under the mounts will not isolate vibrations as the solid path via the bolt head and nut remains.
And rubber in compression is virtually solid so if you put them above and below, it won't do much.
i certainly wouldn't bother.

The important thing is not to only just 'nip' the horizontal bolts that pass through the wood blocks.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic