MTFCA Forum

While on the San Francisco tour our car made a pop and stopped moving. The engine ran fine, but it wasn't driving the wheels. I knew it had to be in the Warford or rear end but I didn't have time to open it until this morning. The carrier has seen better days....

Two questions!!

1. Does anyone know the part number for the tapered bearing John Reagan used in his Fun Projects spools? The cage on mine is cracked. The race looks good, but there are no numbers on the bearing.

2. Does anybody have a shortened drive shaft they can part with? Birdhaven doesn't have any, and doesn't know when they will.

I'll be cleaning parts tomorrow and start inspecting, but I'm pretty sure I've got everything else.

I believe I have one of John's kits on the shelf - I'll take a look-see.

Is that your pinion gear busted up ????

Yup, it split open, but I've got a pinion and a ring gear if needed.

Impressive work! Isn’t it amazing how much carnage can come out of a car with relatively little power…?! I have a ring gear to complete your set
The tapered bearing selections for 1” ID is really limited… as in only one option. I’ll look for a number…

I don’t have any drivelines worth shortening, but understand there are several different length Warford/Muncie/etc transmissions. What length is your gear box…?

I wonder if the ring gear went first or the pinion! Something had to really get bound up to do the breakage that it did!

The broken ring gear is not this problem, I'd really like to keep the thread on the problem I am dealing with.


Soo......

I am trying to find:

1.Tthe part number for the tapered bearing used in the Fun Projects kit. If you know it please let me know.

2. A short driveshaft for a Warford transmission. By chance does anyone have one they can part with?

Have you called Layne? They can shorten driveshafts, I believe.

Gary - the tapered bearing off the Fun Project's kit is #10151 (Chinese).

From your picture your axel gear(s) look quite worn. They may need to be replaced with better ones. Bad thrust washers could cause this, replace with new brass ones. Check the front driveshaft bushing, it looks like the pinion gear was running to deep on the ring gear. This could have been the reason it finely failed.

I’ve got more axle gears, once these are cleaned I’ll inspect them. The front bushing is good, bronze, properly fitted and I did have the U joint pinned, but the Fun Project kit takes that issue away.

Thanks for the number Steve!

Steve:

I find a 15101; are you sure yours is 10151?

No - I could have transposed a number ? A buddy is in the process of making up some of the pinion bearing kits - he gave me the number as I installed my last F.P. kit in his speedster Ruckstell a short time back.!

Probably not transposed… just read upside down. 15101 is the number. Could also use a 15100 or 15102 as alternatives too… all that is different is the fillet radius at the center bore. 15100 is the bearing I used when building my last conversion spool

Thanks Kevin !!!

What is wrong with your driveshaft that you need to replace it? Suggest if you do need to replace it, once torn down post the length. There were many different aftermarket transmissions that used different length driveshaft/housings.

https://www.amazon.com/TIMKEN-Tapered-R ... B07FKWR7XG

IF you do Amazon, here is a US made Timken.

Thanks guys!

I’ve got a 15101 on order.

I appreciate the alternative numbers! I was looking at the Timken catalog and it looked like the 102 was similar and I wasn’t sure what the difference was.

The drive shaft is bad because the keyway is torn out. The pinion split at the key, opened up, and the key tore out the side of the keyway. I don’t know if the carrier was fatigued and broke, taking out the pinion, or if the pinion split and broke the carrier. A large portion of the carrier was like coarse sand.

The ring and pinion, thrust bearings, and axles were all new when I rebuilt this about 1,800 miles ago. I took my time and this wasn’t the first rear end I’ve done; all of the setup was carefully done. I think the carrier went first because the ring gear doesn’t look torn up, but with all of the crap on everything I can’t really tell yet. I’ll clean everything up over the next couple of days and figure out what I need to replace. My neighbor will shorten a driveshaft for me if I can’t find one for a Warford, so that’s addressed.

I’ll post what Imfind when it cleans up.

Was the U-joint pinned in place? If not and only relying on the collar at the bottom to keep the driveshaft in place, that could be a contributing factor to what happened. If the collar moved which is only relying on clamping force, that would allow the driveshaft to move up and down.

I have never seen a stock carrier damaged like this. Has anyone else?
Have you conclusively determined The fault was not in the pinion set up? Mark G raises a good question about pinning the U-joint.
It seems a more reasonable scenario that the pinion nut ground up the carrier. (over time) Your pix seems to show the pinion gear/taper bearing out of position. The damage doesnt look like a sudden pinion gear or key failure.

Inquiring minds want to know.

The ring and pinion were set proper initially.

The U joint was pinned, and the bushing had been faced as if I was using a stock bearing setup. The pinion nut was torqued.

At this point there's no way to determine what started the problem. I'm wondering if the passenger side of the differential case had a crack that I hadn't found. I'll be checking my new one closely. I've got everything apart and cleaned. I've located a new carrier, ordered a drive shaft (Layne does have them), ordered a bearing, and I've been offered a ring and pinion if needed. The pinion gear definitely appears out of position; it's split almost in half, it has spread out, and the key was torn out. I had removed the U joint pin to help loosen things up because the pinion gear wouldn't fit through the hole, so I had to split the case (not easy with an early spool). You can't tell anything about positioning or setup from the current condition or picture.

At this point I just need to order a few small pieces and I can start reassembling..

I recall a number of years ago that a batch of pinion gears had the keyway machined so that each side of the brooch ended up in the tooth valley - they were splitting at the key slot.

Kevin;

The 15101 arrived, it’s good to go. What number race did you use? I’m thinking 15244 but am not sure.

modeltbarn wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:06 pm

...What number race did you use? I’m thinking 15244 but am not sure.

I'm replacing both the FP cup and cone on my '24 Speedster. Parts invoice below, cup # is 15245.

My torque tube broke, unnoticed, some time ago where is had been shortened 12" to accommodate a period Warford 3-speed. This, I'm sure, stressed the driveshaft just ahead of the driveshaft spool, where it snapped with a bang 10 days ago. Oops.

The torque tube got a 10" inner sleeve centred on the break, plug-welded at each end and deep-penetration welded at the joint. We found a replacement driveshaft with excellent taper, keyway and threads and shortened it 12". While the repairs are basically complete, I'm taking this opportunity to give the underside a good wipe down and inspection.

Thank you Chris!

Nice job on the splice and weld, it looks very good. Nice bevel, and I like the anchor welds. Good lock with your project!

Thanks Gary. I should add that we did the plug welds first; once they locked everything in position we veed out the joint so as to weld it with full penetration.

modeltbarn wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:06 pm

Kevin;

The 15101 arrived, it’s good to go. What number race did you use? I’m thinking 15244 but am not sure.

The race part numbers are a similar situation… several options where the only difference is the radius at the housing interface