MTFCA Forum

This maybe a crazy idea, but has anyone ever tried/found a way to change the position of the low speed pedal itself to give more pedal travel when engaging low before you hit the floorboard?

I use Kevlar bands and a few years ago I cracked my low speed drum - I am terrified of doing that again. What a headache. Anyways, after a rebuild, some driving and a set of new floorboards last summer I’m finding the low speed pedal doesn’t quite grip like it should.

I am having no luck at all finding a position where it doesn’t drag when the clutch is out (in “neutral”) but still has good grip in low. Obviously either dragging in neutral or slipping in low risks another cracked drum (not to mention the poor low speed performance makes pulling out into traffic that much hairier), but I can’t seem to find a happy medium.

One issue is that when I have it in a spot where it doesn’t creep in neutral, once I put the floorboards in I’m finding the pedal hits the floorboard before it reaches the end of its travel. Meanwhile, when it’s in high gear there’s a comfortable inch or two of room at the bottom end of the floorboard slot.

I was thinking that a simple (?) fix would be to find a way to just adjust the position of the low-speed pedal on the shaft, so that the pedal is angled a little further to the rear of the car. This would give plenty of travel for the low speed cam AND let me leave the band nice and loose

Has anyone ever done this? I don’t see any obvious adjustment point (just the one tapered pin). I was wondering if I could heat it up with a blowtorch and try bending it in a vise.

Am I crazy?

You didn't install a new notch and pedal support in the hogs head, did you? Everything you stated can only lead to that conclusion...either that or the bands are horribly out of round, but I'm betting on a worn out hogs head being the primary cause for your trouble.

you don't want more forward pedal travel...you want LOTS of sideways "cinching" movement when the pedal goes forward. You can have enough forward movement that the pedal will ride up to the maximum sideways movement and still keep moving forward (with no more band tightening) if you play with the floorboards or the pedal angle enough, but that is NOT what you want.

If it is dragging in neutral and only taking up with extreme forward pedal movement, then sad to say, you are on a fast trip to replacing another drum.

Makes sense. Hadn’t thought of the cam, don’t remember if it was replaced. Is there an easy way to tell if it’s worn?

Your symptoms make me ask.
Did you install the bands with the H/H OFFf??
Was the band re formed to conform perfectly to the drum??
Was the band lining correctly installed with NO bump or raised parts of the lining??
If you cant answer a hearty YES to all three questions, we found some, most or all of your problem.

Re adjust your low pedal thusly. With the motor running, back off the adjustment screw, tighten the band adjuster until you can just start to hear the tripple gear noise change from none to a slight growl. Back off the adjuster 1/2 turn & lock the nut. Your low band is @ its correct setting.
Press down on low pedal. Note how much lost movement before the tripple gear start to growl slightly. A lot of wasted movement points to a worn cam set, assuming the pedal & cam is correctly & tightly pinned.

Be aware that Kevlar takes several adjustments before it is set. Then you will have years where adjustments are not necessary.

The transmission was rebuilt by Adam Hubacz, not me. I would like to think he did everything properly. What’s the h/h?

My brake pedal would bottom out on the floor board so I took it off, put it in a vice and hit it several times with a small sledge hammer until the angle was changed enough to give it a 1” space from the floor when fully pressed. I suppose the same could be done with the low speed pedal. Jim Patrick

JohnSaylor wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:36 pm

The transmission was rebuilt by Adam Hubacz, not me. I would like to think he did everything properly. What’s the h/h?

Hogs head. Transmission cover.

The transmission cover/hogsheads is often overlooked when rebuilding a T engine/ or transmission. Your transmission was probably rebuilt and when having one done it’s a good idea to ask the rebuilder if he will do it or you can do it when the engine is out of the car.

Yours wouldn’t be the first engine that was rebuilt and not thinking about the transmission cover. It’s works in conjunction with the transmission. If you didn’t ask the builder about it he may not have done it.

Ah. Of course.

Check the pedal cam/ramp.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:39 pm

JohnSaylor wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:36 pm

The transmission was rebuilt by Adam Hubacz, not me. I would like to think he did everything properly. What’s the h/h?

Hogs head. Transmission cover.

The answer to the 3 questions can be assessed by adjusting as I suggest. When you drive & engage low pedal, you should have a strong lock up before the pedal hits the floor boards. If not the issue is an out of round/dragging band, very worn cam set and/or a very bent pedal.
You now have the diagnostic tools to pin point the issue(s) Good luck.

Thanks speedyTinc! Gonna try that tomorrow. I assume either of worn cam/out of round band will require the hogshead to come off?

JohnSaylor wrote: ↑

Tue Oct 18, 2022 6:59 pm

Thanks speedyTinc! Gonna try that tomorrow. I assume either of worn cam/out of round band will require the hogshead to come off?

Yes, afraid so.
Do check the cam. If you have to pull the H/H anyway, any Improvement from replacing the worn cam will make the job more complete.

As is so often the case, the necessary details are held until opinions have already been offered.

Your next step is to call Adam and ask him if he rebuilt the Hogs head. If he did, then it is not the pedal ramps. If it was a bare transmission that Adam delivered to you, then the next question is: did anyone rebuild the hog's head while things were apart?...

Straighten the low speed pedal. Sure sounds like it is bent forward and needs to be pulled back. This can be done in the car cold or with care some heat
Call Adam and talk to him. He is a good T Model mechanic.

In addition to the above posts, of which I highly approve, having experience with my cars and other club members which i have helped. After you get everything repaired, replaced, and adjusted to have a good free neutral, I suggest that you also adjust the parking brake lever for a free neutral. See diagram attached.
Then if you are going to be waiting for a signal or at a stop sign for a period of time, use the parking brake lever so you won't have a problem with a heavy foot. After you start out in low push the lever forward to high gear. You don't need to do this every time you use neutral, but any extended period over just a few seconds, you will have better results with saving the low drum.
Norm

If the hogshead has had a new first gear pedal
and ramp fitted, there should only be 1.5" of free play with which to hold the clutch disengaged with your foot. Any more than this indicates that the pedal/ramps are worn.

On our RHD cars the ramp can easily be replaced, but the pedal needs to be removed from the shaft, the ramps need welding to rebuild them, and the a deal of time has to be spent hand working them back into shape to match the ramp.
Allan from down under.

I think it’s definitely the pedal. When adjusted as suggested I have no creep but need to hit the floorboard to have any grab. The cam is definitely new - not even close to camming out. And looking down the side of the pedals, the low speed rests far forward of brake.

Going to do some troubleshooting with Adam this winter and see if we can sort it out

As much of the pedal as I can see looks OK. Proceed with caution.

Scott Condor gave you the answer in the second post.
If the cam is new as you suggest then the adjustment is too loose.
You need to see how far the shaft moves sideways to determine if the pedal is working as it should.
If in new condition the pedal shaft can move the band ear one half an inch to the right (if LHD or RHD) but it only needs less than that and the pedal will not be anywhere near the floor when the band is clamped tight.
The pedal can move forward about 1.5" which releases the clutch ( if adjusted as Norm's diagram shows)
It then hits the cam and has to move sideways, If the band is adjusted and is round it will be just touching the drum but not grabbing it.
It won't get hot as the oil is splashing over everything. If the band is looser no grabbing will take place until the band moves close enough to touch the drum. and all the forward travel does nothing but go forward without squashing the band. You can bend the pedal back as far as you like but it won't make it the band grab the drum.
Once the band begins to grab there is slippage and heat generated just like a normal clutch until the band grabs and stops the drum. Once the car moves you should press the pedal firmly to stop slippage and keep it there while in low gear.
This should happen way before the pedal hits the floor and you can travel hundreds of miles ( unless you slip the band more than necessary and burn away the band) before any adjustment to the low speed band is needed. Obviously once enough speed it obtained you release the pedal and you are in top gear.
Check how far sideways the pedal shaft moves, you can do this with the top off the HH without the engine running. Watch the ear or the end of the pedal cam to see how far they move to the right.
With the band adjusted correctly it would be impossible for the pedal to hit the floor