Morton and Brett speedster build

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Morton and Brett speedster build

Post by blauvelt » Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:13 am

Picked up what I think is a Morton and Brett speedster. Does anyone have a Morton and Brett radiator? Been reading, seems there was a run of Polyform bodies made years back, and there may have also been a run of radiator shells made? Does anyone have any pictures they could share? Were the shells made to fit over a model T radiator (found a picture of one with a modified neck). Thanks!
Last edited by blauvelt on Tue Mar 05, 2024 10:56 am, edited 2 times in total.


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:15 am

Thoughts? The cowl is why I think it is Morton and Brett, even though the tail looks Faultless.
Attachments
9EA92758-B130-4EAC-8CDA-EAF4F271B827.jpeg
585C3B0F-E345-40AA-9164-57CE8C9AA635.jpeg


kmatt2
Posts: 558
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:41 pm
First Name: Kevin
Last Name: Matthiesen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 T Coupe, 16 T Open Express, 21 TT Flatbed. 15 T Roadster, 13 & 25 T Speedster , 51 Mercury 4 door sport sedan, 67 Mercury Cougar
Location: Madera CA 93636
MTFCA Number: 11598

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by kmatt2 » Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:51 am

In the 1970’s I built a speedster with a Polyform Morton Brett body and they came with a Polyform copy of the Morton Brett radiator shell. I used a stock T low radiator fitted to the shell and the radiator fit ok as I remember. In the picture you show of the radiator and shell, it looks like a Whippit, car radiator, they were used on many speedsters back in the 1920’s. There are pictures of my white painted Polyform Morton Brett speedster in the 1976 Vintage Ford covering the MTFCA national tour to Catalina Island that year. In the picture of your speedster on the trailer it looks like a Morton Brett body to me because of the shape of the boat tail.
Last edited by kmatt2 on Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.


kmatt2
Posts: 558
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:41 pm
First Name: Kevin
Last Name: Matthiesen
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 T Coupe, 16 T Open Express, 21 TT Flatbed. 15 T Roadster, 13 & 25 T Speedster , 51 Mercury 4 door sport sedan, 67 Mercury Cougar
Location: Madera CA 93636
MTFCA Number: 11598

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by kmatt2 » Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:51 am

You have a very special speedster project as that looks like a original Morton Brett body. Have fun with your project.
Last edited by kmatt2 on Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar

TRDxB2
Posts: 5412
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:56 pm
First Name: Frank
Last Name: Brandi
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Speedster (1919 w 1926)
Location: Moline IL
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by TRDxB2 » Sat Oct 22, 2022 11:52 am

here i a link to detailed documentation on Morton & Brett with lots of pictures
http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/m/morton_ ... _brett.htm
--
--
The front radiator looks like a Whippet - wonder what the rest of this speedster looks like (headlights bucket match?)
https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/8 ... 1258814478
Attachments
whippet shell.png
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger


Rich P. Bingham
Posts: 1379
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:24 am
First Name: Rich
Last Name: Bingham
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by Rich P. Bingham » Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:08 pm

Sharp looking speedster !
Get a horse !

User avatar

TRDxB2
Posts: 5412
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:56 pm
First Name: Frank
Last Name: Brandi
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Speedster (1919 w 1926)
Location: Moline IL
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by TRDxB2 » Sat Oct 22, 2022 12:38 pm

Some more info
In this report notice that there is no hole for a gas filler cap (doesn't mean that much)
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/thr ... ld.220655/
mb a.png
mba1.jpg
--
--
In another discussion includes your discussion in HAMB about your purchase and more pictures
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/thr ... 655/page-2
s Body 1.png
14B4B54F-1667-470F-86E2-83F7946B0599.jpeg
--
--
How do these areas match? MB is still unconfirmed as a Morton & Brett need to follow that thread
compare cowl.jpg
compare cowl.jpg (72.21 KiB) Viewed 5569 times
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger


Dollisdad
Posts: 2779
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:13 pm
First Name: Tom
Last Name: Rootlieb
Location: Ohio
MTFCA Number: 440

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by Dollisdad » Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:04 pm

Morton Brett from poliform made by Dick Williams.
65D49245-0153-4FD8-91F2-D2BD8DB8C19C.jpeg
651DC3CD-134D-420E-8DC7-634CA6651BCF.jpeg
543F42D2-2764-4424-BEA7-60452A2A3C69.jpeg


slang250
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:52 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Lang
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 touring, 1926 speedster, 1926 TT
Location: Mass
MTFCA Number: 49911
MTFCI Number: 24741

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by slang250 » Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:13 pm

Hello,

I got some photos of a body and radiator I posted a few years ago here:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/59 ... 1470345860

If you would like a photo of something more specific let me know. I have it stored in the next town over but Im heading that way tomorrow.

If you get a chance, could you post some photos of the wood construction of your body. I'm have been trying to figure out in my body what wood is original and what was replaced.

Thank You Steve


Mike Penserini
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:53 am
First Name: Mike
Last Name: Penserini
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 roadster pickup, brass speedster, Mercury # 253 B, Mercury # 1070, Faultless "Hoosier" parts collection.
Location: Sacramento

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by Mike Penserini » Sat Oct 22, 2022 2:48 pm

model-t-ford-speedster.jpg
Blauvelt, Does this photo look familiar ? Don't remember when or where it came from as it's been in my computer for years.


YellowTRacer
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:55 pm
First Name: Ed
Last Name: Archer
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1909 replica Transcontinental race car, 1915 2 man race car, 1918 American bodied speedster
Location: 1807 East Ave. Hayward, CA 94541
MTFCA Number: 19
MTFCA Life Member: YES
Board Member Since: 2009

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by YellowTRacer » Sat Oct 22, 2022 5:18 pm

Just FYI the first year of the Whippet automobile is 1927.

Ed aka #4


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Sat Oct 22, 2022 5:40 pm

Mike, thanks for posting!! No, to bad the hood was lost. There are holes for a windshield. Figured the car had been around, not really a mystery. Just new to me.
Mike Penserini wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 2:48 pm
model-t-ford-speedster.jpgBlauvelt, Does this photo look familiar ? Don't remember when or where it came from as it's been in my computer for years.


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Sat Oct 22, 2022 5:42 pm

Thanks Ed, the chassis is pre '26/27, engine and rear are '26/27. Have a complete '16 that is going into the speedster.

YellowTRacer wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 5:18 pm
Just FYI the first year of the Whippet automobile is 1927.

Ed aka #4


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Sat Oct 22, 2022 5:49 pm

That is stunningly nice. Would you have a side profile of the radiator? Interested in the the top side profile. Is it rounded or a flat slope back? Thank you.

Dollisdad wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:04 pm
Morton Brett from poliform made by Dick Williams.65D49245-0153-4FD8-91F2-D2BD8DB8C19C.jpeg651DC3CD-134D-420E-8DC7-634CA6651BCF.jpeg543F42D2-2764-4424-BEA7-60452A2A3C69.jpeg

User avatar

babychadwick
Posts: 491
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:03 am
First Name: Chad
Last Name: Azevedo
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Boattail speedster, 1912 Tourabout project, 1927 Speedster (build)
Location: Henderson, TN
Board Member Since: 1999
Contact:

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by babychadwick » Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:58 pm

Mike Penserini wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 2:48 pm
model-t-ford-speedster.jpgBlauvelt, Does this photo look familiar ? Don't remember when or where it came from as it's been in my computer for years.
Looks like the same car
"Those who fail to plan, plan to fail"


Dollisdad
Posts: 2779
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:13 pm
First Name: Tom
Last Name: Rootlieb
Location: Ohio
MTFCA Number: 440

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by Dollisdad » Sun Oct 23, 2022 7:41 pm

Here ya go Doug, side pic.
Attachments
6F30E54B-4772-4F0A-808E-6B68EAF0D3C3.jpeg

User avatar

TRDxB2
Posts: 5412
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:56 pm
First Name: Frank
Last Name: Brandi
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Speedster (1919 w 1926)
Location: Moline IL
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by TRDxB2 » Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:34 pm

babychadwick wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:58 pm
Mike Penserini wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 2:48 pm
model-t-ford-speedster.jpgBlauvelt, Does this photo look familiar ? Don't remember when or where it came from as it's been in my computer for years.
Looks like the same car
Yup, no doubt its the same car. Wires don't lie :?
Attachments
same.png
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger


slang250
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:52 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Lang
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 touring, 1926 speedster, 1926 TT
Location: Mass
MTFCA Number: 49911
MTFCI Number: 24741

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by slang250 » Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:11 pm

Hello Doug,

Does your car have These Lima Co brackets on it?

Also found a period photo of a possible Morton Brett radiator car with the Lima Co brackets on it.
Attachments
Morton brett Limaco.jpg
Limaco brackets.jpg


Tim Moore
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:08 pm
First Name: TIMOTHY
Last Name: MOORE
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: As many as can fit in the buildings, need to add on again.
Location: "Island City", MI

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by Tim Moore » Sun Oct 23, 2022 11:56 pm

I had a Morton & Brett overhead long ago. It was 8 valve single intake with manifolds and cover. The cover said Morton & Brett with "Indianapolis" going diagonal. The valves were "boyle" and didn't have a taper seat but were flush in the combustion chamber. It was a very nice head but went off to Toronto as part of a deal on a Mercury speedster.

The guy who got it is no longer alive but if you want to try to chase it email me. Long shot but I have chased things all over the country with a surprising amount of success.

Tim Moore
Mooreti (then the at symbol) msu (then a dot)edu

I don't do private messages


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:41 pm

Thank you very much!!

Will try and update progress...or lack there of is made.
Dollisdad wrote:
Sun Oct 23, 2022 7:41 pm
Here ya go Doug, side pic.


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:43 pm

Possibly? The fronts are extremely decayed, the rears much less so. Break down won't start for a few weeks. But they certainly look like those.
slang250 wrote:
Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:11 pm
Hello Doug,

Does your car have These Lima Co brackets on it?

Also found a period photo of a possible Morton Brett radiator car with the Lima Co brackets on it.

User avatar

babychadwick
Posts: 491
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:03 am
First Name: Chad
Last Name: Azevedo
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Boattail speedster, 1912 Tourabout project, 1927 Speedster (build)
Location: Henderson, TN
Board Member Since: 1999
Contact:

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by babychadwick » Thu Oct 27, 2022 8:08 am

YellowTRacer wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 5:18 pm
Just FYI the first year of the Whippet automobile is 1927.

Ed aka #4
I've been wondering was the original whippet radiator nickled or chromed . . .
"Those who fail to plan, plan to fail"


YellowTRacer
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:55 pm
First Name: Ed
Last Name: Archer
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1909 replica Transcontinental race car, 1915 2 man race car, 1918 American bodied speedster
Location: 1807 East Ave. Hayward, CA 94541
MTFCA Number: 19
MTFCA Life Member: YES
Board Member Since: 2009

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by YellowTRacer » Thu Oct 27, 2022 4:30 pm

Nickel plated.

Ed aka #4


Mike Penserini
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:53 am
First Name: Mike
Last Name: Penserini
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 27 roadster pickup, brass speedster, Mercury # 253 B, Mercury # 1070, Faultless "Hoosier" parts collection.
Location: Sacramento

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by Mike Penserini » Thu Oct 27, 2022 8:42 pm

Lots of speedster stuff still floating around. A few years ago I picked up this original Morton and Brett windshield frame, seller said it was too narrow to be a car windshield and believed it was for a motorcycle side car.
Attachments
DSC07779.JPG
DSC06102.JPG


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Sat Apr 08, 2023 10:12 am

Been perusing the interwebs and have seen drawings of various styles of Morton and Brett radiator (shells). Were these actually made? Like the drawing of the single man body with the more pointy top? The drawings / advertisements being a far more optimistic of what the real out come was.
Attachments
3B32ED17-8621-477F-9588-DFDB2A230FA4.png


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Sat Apr 08, 2023 10:21 am

Assuming my reading is correct, MB licensed their body to different manufactures, who add their own touches?
Attachments
569F8B50-DD3F-495C-B27C-890FB9BD459A.jpeg


Dan McEachern
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:08 am
First Name: DAN
Last Name: MCEACHERN
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: too many. '14 touring, 2 depot hacks, 2 speedsters
Location: ALAMEDA,CA,USA

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by Dan McEachern » Sat Apr 08, 2023 1:38 pm

Here is a picture of the precursor body to the Polyform version referred to above. The Polyform bodies were sprayed up with a chopper gun and are quite heavy as a result. The one below and about 15 additional bodies were produced previous to the Polyform bodies. The Polyform mold was made off of one of these bodies. These precursor bodies were hand laid gelcoat/fiber mat construction and were much lighter. These bodies were the brainchild of a pretty amazing engineer in SoCal by the name of Willie Chambers. Willie scaled the plug used to make the original molds directly off of the patent drawings, so they were as accurate as those drawings. The originals were made around 1975. As I recall, the car in the picture below ran in at least two Long Beach Hill Climbs and was (and still is) powered by a BB Rajo. The wheels are 21" #3 Buffalos. I owned several of these bodies at one time and the last extra one I had now lives up in Idaho.
morton # brett.JPG


Speedsterguy2
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:58 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Knapp
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1919 Speedster (project)
Location: Wilsonville, Oregon

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by Speedsterguy2 » Sat Apr 08, 2023 6:46 pm

There is a fiberglass mold for a Morton & Brett body here in Portland, Oregon, at least I think it is still here. Not sure of the status on it, but as far as I know it was last used 20+ years ago. Made a nice body, hand laid, and looked good. Not too many people doing hand laid fiberglass on the scale of a speedster body these days. If there is someone who is doing such work in fiberglass, it would be nice to see a couple more M & B speedsters! / Tim


frontyboy
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:16 pm
First Name: dick
Last Name: dock
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: T sprint cars
Location: locchoy wa

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by frontyboy » Sat Apr 08, 2023 11:52 pm

I have a 1927 Whippett radiator and shell surplus to my needs if anyone is interested.

frontyboy 2ho6-1949) text or call


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:39 am

Do you know if they have the radiator shell mold?
Speedsterguy2 wrote:
Sat Apr 08, 2023 6:46 pm
There is a fiberglass mold for a Morton & Brett body here in Portland, Oregon, at least I think it is still here. Not sure of the status on it, but as far as I know it was last used 20+ years ago. Made a nice body, hand laid, and looked good. Not too many people doing hand laid fiberglass on the scale of a speedster body these days. If there is someone who is doing such work in fiberglass, it would be nice to see a couple more M & B speedsters! / Tim


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Mon May 29, 2023 12:53 pm

Some wood pictures, see if I can resize some more.


slang250 wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:13 pm
Hello,

I got some photos of a body and radiator I posted a few years ago here:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/59 ... 1470345860

If you would like a photo of something more specific let me know. I have it stored in the next town over but Im heading that way tomorrow.

If you get a chance, could you post some photos of the wood construction of your body. I'm have been trying to figure out in my body what wood is original and what was replaced.

Thank You Steve
Attachments
1F3791DC-F54A-44A4-B272-5C9671EEBCDF.jpeg
9BB95D12-94EA-4A34-AB69-73DE03880DFE.jpeg


Dan McEachern
Posts: 1180
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:08 am
First Name: DAN
Last Name: MCEACHERN
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: too many. '14 touring, 2 depot hacks, 2 speedsters
Location: ALAMEDA,CA,USA

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by Dan McEachern » Mon May 29, 2023 2:39 pm

Doug- just a thought- after I discovered that Tom was building his Morton Brett project and saw the hood that he made for his car, I had him make me a hood for mine. I strongly suggest you contact Rootleib and have them make you a hood if you don't have one for your car. Just something to consider.


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Wed May 31, 2023 9:39 am

Thank you Dan. I'll give them a call!

Also included some more pictures. The car was moved with a fork lift, so the valence panels were just a crumpled mess. Worked them out by hand to see what was left. The sill plates and a few feet are probably salvageable. The rest is just for patterns.
Dan McEachern wrote:
Mon May 29, 2023 2:39 pm
Doug- just a thought- after I discovered that Tom was building his Morton Brett project and saw the hood that he made for his car, I had him make me a hood for mine. I strongly suggest you contact Rootleib and have them make you a hood if you don't have one for your car. Just something to consider.
Attachments
AF15BF55-7965-4436-87DF-5CF8CD2A2C6F.jpeg
Last edited by blauvelt on Wed May 31, 2023 10:03 am, edited 1 time in total.


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Wed May 31, 2023 9:57 am

The original dash was built out of slats, then flat "nails" were used to secure the bits together. Any familiar with the exhaust and intake set up? It isn't A.
Attachments
D1AE0312-3C32-4352-9B9B-B80D806FC371.jpeg
0DA6EE24-8F69-42F8-A9B8-A6FCAC56AA40.jpeg

User avatar

RajoRacer
Posts: 4308
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Tomaso
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1919 Centerdoor, 1924 TT C-Cab Express, 1925 Racer
Location: Longbranch, WA
MTFCA Number: 14972
MTFCI Number: 15411
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by RajoRacer » Wed May 31, 2023 11:02 am

Model B manifolds.


speedytinc
Posts: 3840
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:24 pm
First Name: john
Last Name: karvaly
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
Location: orange, ca
MTFCA Number: 14383
Board Member Since: 2020

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by speedytinc » Wed May 31, 2023 11:11 am

B intake.
A exhaust modified with a flange.


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Wed May 31, 2023 11:25 am

Flange? The plate at the back is tapped into the head and supports the gas pedal. Thank you for the help!

Better picture.


speedytinc wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 11:11 am
B intake.
A exhaust modified with a flange.
Attachments
CCF8042D-C57B-4FB7-92A8-E29FDA699822.jpeg


Jerry VanOoteghem
Posts: 2952
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 4:06 pm
First Name: Jerry
Last Name: Van
Location: S.E. Michigan
MTFCA Number: 24868

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Wed May 31, 2023 11:59 am

blauvelt wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 11:25 am
Flange? The plate at the back is tapped into the head and supports the gas pedal. Thank you for the help!

Better picture.


speedytinc wrote:
Wed May 31, 2023 11:11 am
B intake.
A exhaust modified with a flange.
Flange...
Flange.png
Flange.png (281.35 KiB) Viewed 3145 times


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Sun Oct 22, 2023 7:29 pm

Finally found a good useable T radiator, so i played around with the valence panels and started cutting out a shell for mock ups.
Attachments
99312116-3075-423A-84AB-8790DE9D113F.jpeg
EB10DFC8-4051-4E7C-9B1D-7EBF475DDF39.jpeg
3D3C8B3B-B512-497B-A08F-9D8B0696D584.jpeg


JSteele
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:25 am
First Name: John P.
Last Name: Steele
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Roadster
Location: Montana
MTFCA Number: 374
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 137

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by JSteele » Mon Oct 23, 2023 12:52 am

This car has a copy of a Morton and Brett Radiator shell. Made by hand, copied from an original. They used Model T radiators with an extension of about 2.5" on the filler. I have what I believe is an original shell in my shop. I will try and post a picture tomorrow.
Attachments
Raceway.jpg


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Mon Oct 23, 2023 9:54 am

Thank you for sharing the picture. Next step is to build the lower part of the shell mock up and then I'll start on the forehead. Looking at yours it looks like it has more "pinch" than the black one posted earlier. For the top round, i just freehanded a radius.
JSteele wrote:
Mon Oct 23, 2023 12:52 am
This car has a copy of a Morton and Brett Radiator shell. Made by hand, copied from an original. They used Model T radiators with an extension of about 2.5" on the filler. I have what I believe is an original shell in my shop. I will try and post a picture tomorrow.


JSteele
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:25 am
First Name: John P.
Last Name: Steele
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Roadster
Location: Montana
MTFCA Number: 374
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 137

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by JSteele » Tue Oct 24, 2023 1:27 pm

Larry Sigworth thought this is probably an original Morten & Brett Radiator shell. Museum of American Speed has has a M&B Speedway which I looked over closely and took some measurements off of but it's been 15 or 16 years since I did that. It has a correct radiator shell, but I don't know if it's original and don't remember the fine details. My brain absorbed everything back then, but now it will not release that information, should have wrote more down and taken better pictures.
Attachments
Morten& Brett Rad Shell5.jpg
Morten& Brett Rad Shell4.jpg
Morten& Brett Rad Shell3.jpg
Morten& Brett Rad Shell2.jpg
Morten& Brett Rad Shell - Copy.jpg


JSteele
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:25 am
First Name: John P.
Last Name: Steele
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Roadster
Location: Montana
MTFCA Number: 374
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 137

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by JSteele » Tue Oct 24, 2023 1:30 pm

Couple more
Attachments
Morton & Brett Bill Smith Museum 015.jpg
Morten& Brett Rad Shell7.jpg


GGZ
Posts: 713
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:00 pm
First Name: Guy
Last Name: Zinnanovich
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 touring, 1915 Speedster
Location: Detroit
MTFCA Number: 51236

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by GGZ » Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:59 pm

Looks like a 1927-1928 Whippett radiator shell. These are amongst the most popular radiator shells used on Model Ts.
Attachments
whip1.jpg
whip1.jpg (48.31 KiB) Viewed 1975 times
whip2.jpg
whip2.jpg (48.8 KiB) Viewed 1975 times
whip3.jpg
whip3.jpg (45.94 KiB) Viewed 1975 times

User avatar

babychadwick
Posts: 491
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:03 am
First Name: Chad
Last Name: Azevedo
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Boattail speedster, 1912 Tourabout project, 1927 Speedster (build)
Location: Henderson, TN
Board Member Since: 1999
Contact:

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by babychadwick » Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:21 am

Forget trying the valance with cardboard, use poster paper. Much better to work with.
111.jpg
1.jpg
"Those who fail to plan, plan to fail"


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:16 am

Thank you very much Mr. Steele. Will study.

My current idea is to effectively cut the top off a stock T shell, leaving the sides, lower valence, upper/cross part of the shell at the top of the core and the mounting brackets. It will leave a much larger forehead than original. I don't have the ability to do the 3D curve for the top, so it is a compromise. Eventually I'd like to have a proper copy made.

Can you share some about the white bodied car you were building? The curve at the top of the seat looks very pronounced. Seems that Disteels are the wheel choice for Morton and Brett!


JSteele wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2023 1:27 pm
Larry Sigworth thought this is probably an original Morten & Brett Radiator shell. Museum of American Speed has has a M&B Speedway which I looked over closely and took some measurements off of but it's been 15 or 16 years since I did that. It has a correct radiator shell, but I don't know if it's original and don't remember the fine details. My brain absorbed everything back then, but now it will not release that information, should have wrote more down and taken better pictures.


Derek Kiefer
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:12 pm
First Name: Derek
Last Name: Kiefer
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1925 Touring, 1926 Gow Job
Location: Mantorville, MN
Board Member Since: 2011

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by Derek Kiefer » Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:09 am

I'd be inclined to keep the Whippet radiator & shell since it looks like it radiator has been on the car for a very long time... maybe since the car was built?


JSteele
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:25 am
First Name: John P.
Last Name: Steele
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Roadster
Location: Montana
MTFCA Number: 374
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 137

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by JSteele » Wed Oct 25, 2023 2:09 pm

I happen to know where there are some Disteel wheels and hubs. Also brand new Whippet Radiator that really cools well.

User avatar

RajoRacer
Posts: 4308
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Tomaso
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Touring, 1919 Centerdoor, 1924 TT C-Cab Express, 1925 Racer
Location: Longbranch, WA
MTFCA Number: 14972
MTFCI Number: 15411
Board Member Since: 2001

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by RajoRacer » Wed Oct 25, 2023 5:40 pm

Hard to beat a Whippet shell for a racer/speedster !
Attachments
Racer2.JPG


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:31 pm

Realized I haven't posted many progress pictures...

106" wB, 6" engine set back, Warford, Disteels.
JSteele wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2023 2:09 pm
I happen to know where there are some Disteel wheels and hubs. Also brand new Whippet Radiator that really cools well.
Attachments
413072CC-3B12-4DC5-A4DC-E7A6BAE0C965.jpeg


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Thu Oct 26, 2023 2:54 am

Don't know, what are your thoughts from the below?
Derek Kiefer wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:09 am
I'd be inclined to keep the Whippet radiator & shell since it looks like it radiator has been on the car for a very long time... maybe since the car was built?


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Sun Oct 29, 2023 11:16 pm

Next go at the shell, have a roller, but can't do a compound curve. Played with trimming and shaping the top part. Forgot that there was a great side profile in this thread. So back to at again next weekend.
Attachments
1FA600F0-04D7-448D-AFBF-5F10F19EA731.jpeg
A2F59FD4-4160-4472-8713-19C5B0B362DA.jpeg
A2F59FD4-4160-4472-8713-19C5B0B362DA.jpeg (111.51 KiB) Viewed 1640 times
Last edited by blauvelt on Sun Oct 29, 2023 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Sun Oct 29, 2023 11:25 pm

blauvelt wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2023 11:16 pm
Next go at the shell, have a roller, but can't do a compound curve. Played with trimming and shaping the top part. Forgot that there was a great side profile shot on this thread for reference. Back at it next weekend.

User avatar

jelenbaas
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:45 pm
First Name: James
Last Name: Elenbaas
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1914 Runabout, 1916 Delivery, 1925 Roadster PU, 1926 Speedster
Location: Spokane Valley, WA
MTFCA Number: 14027

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by jelenbaas » Thu Nov 16, 2023 12:06 pm

Just saw this post on Facebook, one of the radiator for sale has what appears to be a Morton and Brett badge on it. It doesn't look like any shown on this thread earlier.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/183233695 ... tid=NOb6eG


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Sun Feb 04, 2024 8:08 pm

Started tearing into the engine, looks nice and stock. Someone did pistons at one point.
Attachments
IMG_0218.jpeg
IMG_0215.jpeg


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Sun Feb 04, 2024 8:29 pm

Someone put 0.40 over aluminum pistons in it, adjustable lifters, and nice head. All in all a nice stock T. No clue what is up with the crankshaft, assume some sort of pastie weights?
Attachments
IMG_0226.jpeg
IMG_0219.jpeg


Wayne Sheldon
Posts: 3641
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
First Name: Wayne
Last Name: Sheldon
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
Location: Grass Valley California, USA
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Sun Feb 04, 2024 9:15 pm

Look like Dunn counterweights on the crankshaft. Or likely reproductions made sometime in the 1960s or since. They were originally produced in the 1920s, and fit only the earlier style "diamond" throw crankshafts. Later, the design was altered to fit the rectangular throws of the 1925 and later crankshafts. Reproductions have been made of both styles, and I think a third "one size fits all" casting at various times in the hobby.
You may want to check out how well they were fit onto the crankshaft. They should be very carefully fit, and ground to match against any specific crankshaft because forgings actually vary considerably from one crankshaft to another. They need to fit properly against the crankshaft throws so that the special hardened bolts can be tightened extremely tight so that the weights cannot even begin to shift around in any way at all. And they also need to be properly fit so that the heavier casting of the weights when tightened do not actually cause a slight bend in the crankshaft. Even the slightest bend in the crankshaft can cause the crank and bearings to beat each other apart. (People think that adding the weights can't bend the crankshaft, but they actually can!) AFTER the crankshaft and weights are properly fit, then have the assembly dynamically balanced. Some people have recommended doing one pair of weights on the crankshaft, then balancing them. Then do the other pair, and then have them balanced again.


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett Radiator

Post by blauvelt » Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:05 am

Thank you Wayne, I'll pay close attention to them and share what I find (hopefully nothing abnormal).
Wayne Sheldon wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2024 9:15 pm
Look like Dunn counterweights on the crankshaft. Or likely reproductions made sometime in the 1960s or since. They were originally produced in the 1920s, and fit only the earlier style "diamond" throw crankshafts. Later, the design was altered to fit the rectangular throws of the 1925 and later crankshafts. Reproductions have been made of both styles, and I think a third "one size fits all" casting at various times in the hobby.
You may want to check out how well they were fit onto the crankshaft. They should be very carefully fit, and ground to match against any specific crankshaft because forgings actually vary considerably from one crankshaft to another. They need to fit properly against the crankshaft throws so that the special hardened bolts can be tightened extremely tight so that the weights cannot even begin to shift around in any way at all. And they also need to be properly fit so that the heavier casting of the weights when tightened do not actually cause a slight bend in the crankshaft. Even the slightest bend in the crankshaft can cause the crank and bearings to beat each other apart. (People think that adding the weights can't bend the crankshaft, but they actually can!) AFTER the crankshaft and weights are properly fit, then have the assembly dynamically balanced. Some people have recommended doing one pair of weights on the crankshaft, then balancing them. Then do the other pair, and then have them balanced again.


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett...speedster...build?

Post by blauvelt » Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:47 am

Made headway, spent some time with the YouTube watching hammer and dolly videos. Made a few passes at the cowl, which is now decidedly more flat where it should and rounder where applicable. Got the radiator mounted. Had a fellow model T person come by and provide modeling services, time to pull the trigger and lengthen the body so I fit...unless there is someone under 5'7" on the forum who has a serious moral disagreement with slicing and dicing and wants a Morton and Brett for themselves.
Attachments
IMG_0281.jpeg
IMG_0286.jpeg
IMG_0288.jpeg


Topic author
blauvelt
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:26 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Ogden
Location: Texas!

Re: Morton and Brett...speedster...build?

Post by blauvelt » Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:37 pm

made the first part of the lower valence. Rolled the sheet metal around a dowel rod. Also added eyeballs.
Attachments
IMG_0415.jpeg
IMG_0422.jpeg

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic