T adoption - My project progress

[Arbs]

Greetings MTFCA forum. I just adopted a T and it arrived today. What was supposed to be a quiet project dropped off in my driveway, turned into a neighborhood event.

I was looking for a project that would be pretty much together but needed some work. The goal is to introduce my son (8 yrs old) to the fun of working on a car together and eventually taking it around town. I found a '23 touring, made the deal, and arranged shipping. This was supposed to be a project that we can work on as we have time, in my garage, without any fanfare.

Yesterday my son and I cleaned out a bay in the garage. It felt like getting a new baby's room organized.

Today I received a text from the delivery driver that he would be here around 11. 11 rolled by and I didn't hear from them. Around 12 I got a call from the delivery company that the driver has been here for a while. I looked outside and saw nothing.

I was on the phone with the delivery company and my neighbors son started ringing my doorbell. I open the door and the boy is saying something about a black car. My dog ran under my feet and successfully negotiated her way out of the door. I also received a text from my neighbor at the same time saying "there is a shady man with a Russian accent trying to drop off Al Capone's car in my yard."

Yes, they delivered it to the wrong house and had it unloaded, right in the middle of the setup of an outdoor party in my neighbor's back yard. She even signed for the delivery thinking it was a party tent.

I walked up and tried to communicate with this delivery guy. He barely spoke English and he starts working on me to get the car started and drive it off. I try to remind him that I paid for delivery of a non-functioning vehicle and expected it to be dropped off in my driveway.

Meanwhile everyone preparing for the party is gathering around and other neighbors are joining in. Needless to say, the entire neighborhood is now expecting to see this T on the road in about a week.

Well, some of the guys and I decided it would be more challenging to reload the car rather than push and pull it around to get it to my place. As soon as the delivery driver heard that we had a plan, he was gone. He reminded me of Witch Hazel in the old WB cartoons that would leave bobby pins in the air after darting off.

With half of the neighborhood participating or watching, we got it parked in my garage.

That was fun.

I'm excited to get working on it. I'm brand new to Model T's and have been reading as much as I can get my hands on. I'm able to start it, but I only ran it briefly because I want to replace all of the fluids. I'll give it the once over and post my initial findings. Maybe someone here would like to help me pick my first task? More to come...

[ChrisB]

Just read your post and my wife and I had a laugh.

You will get lots of help on here and I would encourage you to join the MTFCA.

Chris

P.S. I really liked the part that the neighborhood expects it to be running in a week.

[My1914T]

Welcome to the affliction! Now, be 'wery' carefull. . they breed quickly!!

[Rich P. Bingham]

What fun !! A great start for lots of memories.

Let's get one thing straightened out right now though, Daniel - the Model T has adopted YOU !!

You and your boy are going to have a lot of fun ! Best wishes.

[Norman Kling]

you need no more than 3 Model T's. One to drive. One to work on. And one for spare parts. I only have 3, however, all of them are now running. So I have to rotate them so they will each get exercise. However with the COVID I let two of them set too long and the batteries got dead. I bought one new battery and one still has a working battery. The third one has set for so long that I hope the carburetor is not gummed up with our new blend gas.
Norm

[TWrenn]

With ya there Norm! When I had 5 T's & an A all I did was maintenance. With only 3 T's that all are running well, I also try to rotate them. But Clara the '13 is still my favorite pet, so she got over 1800 miles this year and counting, the '11 Torpedo got over 1000, the poor '25 Fordor less than 300. It's my "cool weather car", and I did get it out yesterday cause it was sooo windy out, albeit mild.

And Daniel..welcome to the affliction as we say. This forum and locals in your area will be a big help. But first, get the "black bible"...service manual from one of the vendors soon. It will help you a LOT. Mine is about wore out!

[speedytinc]

Welcome. Great story! I felt like a bystander to all the fun.

[JTT3]

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[Steve Jelf]

Great story. Here are a couple of links to get you started.

https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html

https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG79.html

[Luke]

Daniel,

Great story, I'm with John - there's got to be some pix or even a video!

The bit about Al Capone reminded me of looking at some gangster's car a good few years ago. It had a matchbox sitting on or beside one of the side windows that'd been wound down; I seem to recall the glass was at least as wide as the matchbox across, if not along.

Anyway, for some reason I thought that was Al Capone's car, but a quick bit of research tells me it wasn't. Rather it belonged to a gent named Micky Cohen, and definitely doesn't look like a a T, whereas to the uninitiated I guess some could mistake Capone's car for one.

I guess you've self-selected your first task in changing the fluids. After that I'd suggest checking and adjusting the coils if needed, then the timing, before you go much further with it.

Luke.

[Fire_chief]

Congratulations on your new car, and welcome to the hobby. I love the fact that you are doing this for, and with your son. Both of my daughters helped in the restoration of "their" cars. Hopefully you will post pictures of your progress.
Good luck.

[351cmach]

Congrats. Great story, sounds like the fun has already started. Model T's can be addictive. Enjoy!

[Arbs]

Thanks for the encouragement everyone! Thanks for the warning that limiting myself to one Model T could be a real challenge in the future.

I bought my son his own creeper today and he has been begging to get under the car.

ChrisB: My membership papers are apparently in the mail. Once I have my number I'll update my profile.

Steve Jelf: Thanks for the links. Do you and others suggest taking the rear apart for inspection as a given for a "new to me" T or looking for other symptoms first? It sounds like the consequences of having failed bearings are pretty serious.

Luke: My family farm is near Coudersport, PA, home of the Elliot Ness festival. I anticipate my T to make an appearance there after it is ready. Thanks for the suggestions of putting timing and coils on the short list.

As far as images of the ordeal, I asked around and all I got back was people posing with the T. Not one so far of the chaos. ex: (this is not me, but a neighbor)



I assure you it is true and we all had a good laugh about it at the party last night.

[Luke]

Daniel,

Your T looks to be significantly more tidy than the fire-breathing neighbour in the forefront of the picture Is that you at the front trying to crank her up?

Thanks for telling us where you are. Out of interest I often look up the places where people live and learn something from it; while I knew the name Elliot Ness I'd forgotten much of the story and was amused to see the Capone connection, given earlier comments.

Also amusing was the statement that in Coudersport "For every 100 females there were 94.1 males", so maybe not a bad place to be, depending

Luke.

[JTT3]

………………………….

[Arbs]

Yes, that is me at the front looking to try to crank it up. The guy at the driver's side is the delivery driver. I'm still not sure he understood or cared that he delivered it to the wrong house.

Honestly, I have a great deal to learn about what it is that I purchased exactly. To my untrained eye, it looks reasonably original. I know it has a few leaks, including a water pump. That is on the short list to be dropped. It's a fun adventure, and my son came home from school today begging to work on it. I hope that enthusiasm lasts as we make progress on this.

I'm still trying to figure out how to use the gallery so hopefully you can see my son helping with oiling and opening the hog's head for the first time:

[Steve Jelf]

Do you and others suggest taking the rear apart for inspection as a given for a "new to me" T...?

Sorry, but yes. When I bought my 1923 touring I was blissfully unaware of thrust washers. I learned about them after the right rear wheel locked up while I was driving in town. I had to drag the car onto a trailer and haul it home.

Fortunately, as the saying goes, it ain't rocket surgery. Get the MTFCA Axle book and dig in. My only quibble with the book is that Glen is impartial on whether to use the original pinion bearing or a Fun Projects bearing. I will go with the FP bearing every time.

PS Some of us like chain saw oil for the oilers. It seems to last longer than motor oil.

[varmint]

Nice Story!
Nice car!
Best part is that the project is a family journey.
One of the first things we did was rebuild the rear end using the club booklet.
Vernon

[JTT3]

……,……………. ……..

[Joe Reid]

From your initial picture your car looks nice and someone has cared for it. Do you have the Model T manual? They all call it the bible but it is really the complete instructions for the T, step by step. It must roll ok because you got it to your house? I see your son oiling the front spring and kingpins, that is good. How did things look in the hogsheads (transmission)? The engine and transmission use the same oil source, I would drain it and replace it with 30w, 10w30 or 15w40 diesel oil. Take each wheel and give it a shake. You are looking for loose bearings or kingpin on the front and play on the rear. Do the rear axles move in and out? Open plug on differential and check oil level. I use my pinky, might be level with threads or down a little but not more then about 3/4 “. Your car probably has a battery and a starter and a switch under your foot. When was it last run? Is there a fuel shut off at the carburetor, there is one at the fuel tank. Use clean fuel and fire it up. If you have minimal play do not pull the rear end apart. It is still working or has already been replaced. I have had thrust washers fall apart, who thought you would only get 99 years out of it? Until you know what you are doing and how to drive it, don’t go to far. For timing and starting refer to your manual.

[Mopar_man]

This is going to be a lot of fun for both of you. Do lot's reading and asking questions. Start a thread of all the stuff you are doing. It documents everything that's been don and will be fun to look at in years to come. This is my thread viewtopic.php?t=9508

Take a look. I think I've done just about everything on the engine and trans. Mine was needing a lot more help. Good luck with it and keep posting.

[Arbs]

Joe,

Thanks for the items to review. I checked both rear wheels and there is no play in any direction. I haven't checked the diff oil level yet, but when I jacked up the passenger side rear wheel, oil dripped from the drivers side of the axel. Maybe they overfilled it?

The front is another story. I noticed that since I saw the car at a dealer last, someone changed the driver's side front tire. The tread of the tire is different from the time that photos were taken at the dealer. I think they initially took the wheel off because the hub cap was scored from wrenches and the castle nut wasn't tightened down causing the wheel to be loose. I got it back together properly, noting that the bearing looks "ok" but will be on the replacement list. The spindle bodies have play. The driver's side specifically.

Here is a video of the movement: https://photos.app.goo.gl/7Bhf4ptnmuxV91Fv6

How much of a concern is this? I assume this requires new bushings to correct. Will this be a good excuse to get a press in my garage?

The Black Bible is in the mail BTW.

Robert/Mopar_Man,

Great videos. I subscribed right away. I look forward to digging into them further.

[Scott_Conger]

yes, that's a bunch of movement!

Front end is an excellent place to start with an 8 y/o mind following along. Lots of basic steps to take, some opportunities for analysis and problem solving.

As I have been following this, and on the way to town this AM I was thinking that the front end inspection/repair would be a good place to start. Now I'm sure it is...

[mbowen]

When you check the oil in the rear end the first time, have a catch pan under it before you remove the plug. Engine oil can leak and run down the driveshaft tube and overfill the rear end. Also, if you have access to one of the (relatively) inexpensive borescopes that display on a smart phone or tablet computer, you can get a pretty good look at the thrust washer on the right side to tell whether it’s babbit or bronze. This one in my ‘24 touring is bronze:

BE166E39-4A73-4C65-9C6E-1170600C90AC.jpeg (36.96 KiB) Viewed 9688 times

[Arbs]

Miles,

Great tip on the scope. I'll look into that.

The diff was overflowing when I opened it. I also checked the oil level in the engine after this and it was fine.

Diff overflowing

I hope your wife doesn't see that bowl before you clean it up!!!
Chris B

[Joe Reid]

How much play do you have in your steering and about how much do the kingpins move? You can see the bushings in the axle, do they look worn? Depending on what you find as long as you drive slowly and learn the feel of the car you can give it a try. Removing axles, installing and reaming kingpins and working on the rear axle are all covered in the manual. It is the most complete car instruction book I have ever worked with, they even have repairs timed. I just add 8 hours to a week, because they are 100 years old and cantankerous. Overfill in the rear end results in wet brakes on the rear drums and can be messy but still driveable, no run in or out indicates the thrust washers are intact and is good. Oil passes at the forth main which is part of the ball junction between the drive shaft and the rear of the transmission. Keep your engine oil level correct and periodically check the rear end fluid level. T’s can look spindly but they are quite durable, don’t ignore these symptoms but they can be worked on at a reasonable pace over time. Don’t overdo it, take time and get comfortable with the car, be careful on hills and in traffic, a perfect car doesn’t stop well.

[Arbs]

Joe,

The kingpins don't seem to move at all. I did buy the bushings and reaming tool from Langs. We'll see how that goes.

Yesterday, my son enjoyed filling all of the grease cups and forcing some fresh grease into the joints. He's been begging to go under the car with the creeper, so he got to inspect the glass sediment bulb under the fuel tank.

It runs!

I drained and added gas yesterday and got it running. I topped up the coolant since the old waterpump leaks like a sieve. I pulled it into the driveway under it's own power. It seemed like once it warmed up it would sputter out and not respond to throttle inputs. I drained the carb and allowed fuel to flush it out. Then I was able to run it better. Video link here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/XJVUZ89nrUq5EYDt9

It looks to be running pretty well but I haven't had it under any real load. I have the parts on order to pull out the water pump. I'm planning on running without one if possible. I've seen heated (pun intended) debates in the forum about pumps. I'll start with no pump and take it from there.

I was a little surprised to see that the ammeter would cloud up after a minute or so.

Also the fan has some type of make shift shim at the base of the mount and it's missing a nut. See photo. It's on my list to eliminate that shim and fix whatever is causing the need for it.

[George House]

Excellent progress Dan ! However the fan bracket bolt doesn’t use a fastening nut. That bolt is cotter pinned. Yeah, take that fan bracket bolt shim out and cotter pin that bolt. See the holes ? A lot of people added water pumps to try and correct an overheating problem when the problem usually is in the radiator or improper spark placement. I agree on your decision to go back to the original thermosyphon system. Also consider a motometer when doing this. It’s more than a bling bling pretty face. It’ll tell you the degree of heat dissipation efficiency.

[speedytinc]

Expect the king pins to also have enough wear to need replacing.

[Mark Nunn]

It looks like your timer rod is rubbing on the fanbelt. That should be looked at to prevent belt damage.

[Luke]

Daniel,

If it were me I'd just fix the leak in the water pump. Thermosyphon is all very well but a pump will likely improve coolant flow/thermal transfer (particularly in an old system) and mean that you're less likely to experience overheating in slow moving traffic etc.

Better still they're often a period accessory, as yours seems to be, and generally of very simple construction, thus easily reconditioned.

Ammeter clouding is probably explained by your local humidity and temperature, and possibly how you have the vehicle stored. If it's managed to gather a bit of warm moist air in the instrument (I see you had the floorboards up, so lots of hot coming from the exhaust heating the rear of the instrument - and maybe a bit of spray from the leaking pump), but the OAT is cool, then you can get condensate forming on the relatively cooler instrument glass.

Luke.

[Arbs]

It looks like your timer rod is rubbing on the fanbelt. That should be looked at to prevent belt damage.

Thanks for the catch Mark. I took a look and there is about 1/4 in clearance from what I can see. Now the belt is wearing harder on the engine side. Maybe it's because it seems to be riding right against the back of the fan pulley? It even seems to roll up the rear of the pulley just a bit.

[Arbs]

Better still they're often a period accessory, as yours seems to be, and generally of very simple construction, thus easily reconditioned.

Thanks for your input. It is unlike any water pump I've been able to find on engine photos. It probably is a good conversation piece as well. I'm definitely not throwing it out. When I pull it, I'll check the condition of the impeller and go from there.

If anyone knows more about this water pump, I'd be interested in learning more.

[Arbs]

I took it for a spin in my yard. It drives nice, but I will need some practice. I feel like a kid learning to ride a bike.

[Arbs]

It looks like your timer rod is rubbing on the fanbelt. That should be looked at to prevent belt damage.

Mark,

After another review, the pull rod connector on the timer just starts to rub the belt when timing is fully advanced. Does this mean the timer is on wrong? I guess it is traveling too far?

[Steve Jelf]

Does this mean the timer is on wrong? I guess it is traveling too far?

If the timer was on wrong I expect the car would run poorly or not at all. Advancing too far? I doubt it, but you can check the timer for proper adjustment. As timing is adjusted by bending the rod, maybe the rod has been bent too close to the belt. Maybe the non-stock position of the belt because of the water pump plays a part.

https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG97.html

[TXGOAT2]

The more you drive it, the easier it gets, and you will develop the right responses for quick stops, smooth shifts, "driving ahead", etc. I would inspect the engine fan very carefully for any evidence of cracks or loose rivits or a loose hub bushing.

[Arbs]

Does this mean the timer is on wrong? I guess it is traveling too far?

If the timer was on wrong I expect the car would run poorly or not at all. Advancing too far? I doubt it, but you can check the timer for proper adjustment. As timing is adjusted by bending the rod, maybe the rod has been bent too close to the belt. Maybe the non-stock position of the belt because of the water pump plays a part.

https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG97.html

Thanks again Steve. I think you are right about the "non-stock position" of the belt. Maybe a different size belt is needed so I can move the fan a little out? I just found a great thread discussing this exact issue, and the OP has a water pump as well. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29139&p=224549&hili ... lt#p224549

I tested the belt rubbing with the engine running and it rubs even sooner than I thought, with the timing set half way down.

Your links are very helpful. I was looking for a straight forward explanation of how to set the timing.

[Arbs]

The more you drive it, the easier it gets, and you will develop the right responses for quick stops, smooth shifts, "driving ahead", etc. I would inspect the engine fan very carefully for any evidence of cracks or loose rivits or a loose hub bushing.

Yeah Pat, I think the biggest issue with my T right now is the nut between the steering wheel and the front seat. I'm working on getting in contact with some other local T owners. Maybe one of them would be willing to show me how it's really done. I'll also be able to compare how mine is running vs. others. The nearest local chapters are far but I'm aware of some owners closer to me.

I've given the fan a once over and haven't noticed anything of concern besides the strange shim on the bracket arm. I'll be pulling the radiator soon, and will double check the fan.

Thanks!

[Mark Nunn]

Dan, when you remove the waterpump you will need a new fan belt. Adjust the fan arm so that the timer rod does not touch it when timing rod is fully advanced. Then measure for the new fan belt at that point. Moving the arm a little with a tight belt solves your problem.

[A Whiteman]

This is a great thread - it makes me recall the excitement with my own first T. (Yes - it was true - they don't stay 'alone' in the garage forever!)

Hard to tell in the pictures but the fan belt should not be tight. It should be a 'relaxed fit' that is firm enough to drive the pully but no where near the tension that would be applied to a modern car.

You may want to keep the water pump - this is a discussion had many time on the forum My own view is that "If it works for you, then it works!".
That being said, quickly taking it off (and changing the fan belt) will get you driving right away, then gives a project over winter to rebuild the pump. (To be fair, you may not even worry about installing it again).

Have fun with the kids - they grow up too fast for you to 'wait' before working with them

Cheers
Adrian

[Joe Reid]

Looks like you are having fun and learning. There are a million things you will figure out as you go. I started with my Dad in 1972 when I was in high school. We never got that one going but we did take it all apart, and I mean everything. Dad sold that one in about 1985. We both drove one in 2005 when I bought my 1920 Roadster. I have five now, two my Dad bought. Dad is 93 and I’m 67 and the only one still driving them. I wish I was eight and got to drive that first one when I was old enough. What an awesome life lesson. Study up on them, it is a neat history and the automotive knowledge you will gain is valuable.

[Arbs]

This is a great journey. We are enjoying it.

But now I found out cylinder #3 is not sparking. No spark from the cable. No spark from the contact at the firewall.

Is there a way to use a multimeter to quickly test the coil while it's in the car? I assume not because my searches are coming up empty.

BTW, I'm debugging this while handing out candy for trick-or-treat.

[Ed Fuller]

No tools needed.

Just switch the coils around in the box and see what it does.

[Arbs]

No tools needed.

Just switch the coils around in the box and see what it does.

Yes, yes I could do that, but that would be too easy. On it now. Thanks!

[Arbs]

No tools needed.

Just switch the coils around in the box and see what it does.

I swapped coils 3 & 4. Still no spark on #3. I can see arcing on the coils in 1, 2 and 4. Nothing on coil 3. Is the timer next to look at, the contacts in the coil box, or something else? Thoughts?

[JTT3]

…….. …………..

[Arbs]

If you got no spark from the coil originally in the slot for 3 then when switched it to another slot the coil produced a spark it’s probably not the coil for right now. I would check the contact tabs for slot 3 and make sure they are not compressed. There are 3 tabs, one on the bottom of the coil box and 2 on the back board. If compressed compared to the other tabs that are working you’ll need to lift them up some. I’d also look at the coil box lid on the inside to see if it has a steel bracket attach on the inside back of it that holds the coils down. Sometimes it is missing. Then check the post on the engine side of the firewall, make sure they are tight and the spark plug wire for that slot is tight. While you’re at it you may want to look at the wire that is soldered to each brass tab and see if the wire is still soldered to the tabs. You can do a continuity test on the brass tab also. If that’s good you can check the wires going from the commutator to the coil box for tightness & continuity. If all is good then check the timer. Others may have a different approach.

Thanks John. I appreciate it. I'll look into this tomorrow. My coil box lid is completely missing, so no steel bracket. Looks like something to add to the parts list.

Edit: Coil box covers for a '23 touring seem hard to find.

[JTT3]

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[Scott_Conger]

I "second" what John said...

[Arbs]

I'm happy to keep the progress updates coming! The members of this forum have been so welcoming. I can't say enough about this place.

If you got no spark from the coil originally in the slot for 3 then when switched to another slot the coil produced a spark it’s probably not the coil for right now. I would check the contact tabs for slot 3 and make sure they are not compressed. There are 3 tabs, one on the bottom of the coil box and 2 on the back board. If compressed compared to the other tabs that are working you’ll need to lift them up some. I’d also look at the coil box lid on the inside to see if it has a steel bracket attach on the inside back of it that holds the coils down. Sometimes it is missing. Then check the post on the engine side of the firewall, make sure they are tight and the spark plug wire for that slot is tight. While you’re at it you may want to look at the wire that is soldered to each brass tab and see if the wire is still soldered to the tabs. You can do a continuity test on the brass tab also. If that’s good you can check the wires going from the commutator to the coil box for tightness & continuity. If all is good then check the timer. Others may have a different approach.

John,

I think I exhausted continuity checks today. I went back and double checked all my testing again, starting with swapping spark plugs, swapping coils, and checking continuity repeatedly. I have continuity down to the timer and I think that is the next thing to check. I'm not sure exactly what to check when I get in front of it but I did find this post, where you provided some great advice to another new owner: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29005&p=223600&hili ... er#p223600

I guess it's time to pull the radiator to get better eyes on the timer?

Here are some photos from yesterday. We had great weather over the weekend.

My son helping with an oil change

getting_ready_for_oil_change.jpg (71.28 KiB) Viewed 8909 times

My son greasing the T

greasing the T.jpg (73 KiB) Viewed 8909 times

[Scott_Conger]

You are building memories for that young man which he will never forget.

You can never replace time that is wasted doing anything else.

[speedytinc]

Pulling the radiator to look @ the timer is a bunch of unnecessary, waisted labor. The timer comes off & out real easy. Work the wiring away from the timer spring & you can have it in your palm.

[JTT3]

………………………..

[speedytinc]

If you dont have the T1 service manual, get it ASAP. This kind of stuff is well covered.

[Arbs]

You can learn a lot from the commutator so don’t try to clean it until you take a few pictures of the inside. From any grease or sticky dust you can tell sometimes if it is running true or if it is off center. Once you’ve done that you can clean it up & take more pictures cleaned. Once you’re done there spray copious amounts of brake cleaner on the brush and timer plate. Clean it off.

Well, I didn't need to clean the grease out of the timer... see below.

[George House]

Good on you Dan ! You’re way ahead of the game ! You have an Anderson timer ! They’re the best. And you have a modern oil seal on the cam gear cover. Don’t use grease or oil on/in it. Just a dab of Vaseline on the flapper and 4 contacts.

[JTT3]

………………………,

[Arbs]

It worked! I had continuity from all of the contacts back to their respective coil but I noticed that the the connector for wire 3 to the timer was askew compared to the other three. The connector hung just a hair over the edge of the timer housing. I loosened the bolt, adjusted and re-tightened everything. It seemed too easy but I put everything back together and fired it up. I got spark on 3!

I think the connector was causing a short to ground with the way it was angled.

It ran so good, I pulled it out of the garage and took a loop through the backyard. The slight incline in the yard didn't phase it so I took it up the hill on my street and around a cul-de-sac. This was about a quarter mile. It ran great apart from a little misfiring which could be from my lack of experience advancing and retarding the timing.

My wife knew it went well just by the look on my face.

Thanks John and everyone else who provided advice!

Now on to the next project. I have a long list of items but it will either be the leaking water pump or the leaking carb.

Thanks again!

[JTT3]

……………… ………

[Allan]

Dan, the dodgey shim on the fan arm base may well have been installed in an attempt to get the fan belt to run correctly on the flat pulleys. The trick is to make sure that the actual fan shaft is parallel to the crankshaft. If it is not the belt will tend to wander. The problem is corrected by bending/twisting the fan arm so that the fan shaft is perfectly horizontal.
Great stuff having your son involved. Somewhere in my photos I Have one of my 11 year old, hauling on a bar, trying to hook up some spring shackles.

Allan from down under.

[Arbs]

Pulled the pump today and changed out the belt. Waiting for the paint to be done on the new lower intake, then it will all go back together. also waiting on an upper intake gasket.

[Joe Reid]

You won’t be sorry. The Model T cools well by thermosyphon or however it is spelled. I think original works best.

[George House]

Good move Dan....if you were more familiar with your T’s performance, you just might realize a very minor improvement in its ‘peppyness’. Some time ago someone long lost to memory dyno’d a T engine with and w/out a water pump and with and w/out a generator and showed a tiny horsepower increase. Yes; thermosyphon cooling is efficient.....and now you have a trot line anchor

[Arbs]

I'm hoping by flushing the system I can prevent any potential overheating issues. I'm planning on using the process mentioned here (for a Model A). Basically he hooks up PVC pipes and a garden hose to the radiator and flushes from the lower outlet to the upper inlet, opposite the normal direction of flow. Then he does the same for the block.

Thoughts?

I've seen people mention using CLR, in the block. Anyone have thoughts on that?

[Steve Jelf]

A water pump on a Model T is often installed to help a failing radiator, so removing your pump may or may not lead to overheating. It depends on the condition of the radiator. In many cases a century of vibrations has separated the fins from the tubes, and without that tight physical contact conducting heat from the tubes to the fins to the passing air, the radiator no longer radiates as it used to. In the past I've dealt with that by buying a Berg's radiator. Now that those are no longer available I think the next best thing is a recore of the old radiator. For a show car you have to get round tubes, but for my drivers I go with the somewhat more efficient flat tubes.

For flushing the engine, compressed air helps. A link showing that is here: https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG96.html

CLR is fine, but vinegar is cheaper.

[WayneJ]

While your looking at your cooling system, pay close attention to the condition of your fan blades. I found out the hard way that metal fatigue of the blades can lead to a broken blade putting a hole in the radiator. If your fan needs replacing, the vendors sell replacements with ball bearing hubs.

[Arbs]

Well that's not good...

I guess I'm waiting on more than a gasket.


Behold, the flush-o-matic 2000:

I'll flip this setup over to the block to flush that as well, once I get a new coolant outlet.

[Arbs]

We can put on the plates!

In Pennsylvania we can use vintage plates as our official license plate. The plate number needs to be unused in the vanity plate database but the DMV still reserves the right to deny the plate for just about any reason.

So far my '23 plates have been approved and can be used on the car. There is a final review still pending but we are good for now.

Now the question is, do I leave the plates as is, or restore them?

[TWrenn]

Another question with similar responses as to water pumps, MMO, elec. ignition, etc. Answer is, do what YOU want to do.
My preference is, if they are reasonably legible, leave them as is. To me, the current condition of them tells a story. Others like to make 'em look like brand new. To each his own.

[TXGOAT2]

A tablespoon full of Marvel Mystery Oil added to your radiator will lubricate your water pump seal while preventing rust. It will also make your radiator smell pretty!

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Judging from an earlier photo, you may want to replace the starter cable. The missing insulation near the starter might not be too much of a risk, but the insulation further back can't be a whole lot better and it's nearer to things it can short against.

[Arbs]

A tablespoon full of Marvel Mystery Oil added to your radiator will lubricate your water pump seal while preventing rust. It will also make your radiator smell pretty!

Marvel Mystery Oil always reminds me of my dad. He swore by it.

[Arbs]

What is under the back seat?

Besides corn? - Luckily I don't seem to have rodents in my garage. I'll have to get this cleaned up today to keep it that way.

[TXGOAT2]

It's still a very useful product. It was a God-send back in the days of non-detergent, straight grade motor oil of uncertain quality. My T seems to perform better with 4 oz of MMO added to a full tank of unleaded gasoline. I use synthetic 10W30 oil in the crankcase, so I see no need to add MMO to it, at least in summer. For very cold weather operation, I'd add about 10% MMO to that, or change to 0W30 or 5W30.

[TXGOAT2]

Some people swear by mothballs to keep rodents out of stored vehicles.

[speedytinc]

I can attest. I put some mothballs in my outside T's to keep the cats out.

[Steve Jelf]

I don't know if there's still a state without a YOM law allowing original plates of the vehicle's model year. As with registration, the laws and rules vary from state to state, some of them with rather weird twists. At least one state says the plates may NOT be restored. Anther says they MUST be. In either case, how do they know whether a plate is restored or NOS? Some states require a sticker. Some require a modern plate to be carried in the vehicle. In Kansas all I had to do was pay a relatively small one time fee and put the plate on the car. I do carry a copy of the law with the pertinent part highlighted. I started doing that after a highway patrol officer stopped me for having a 1968 plate on my 1968 beetle. He was on his radio for about twenty minutes while somebody explained the law to him.

[Arbs]

Front Wheel Bearing

A front wheel bearing on a Model T shouldn't have this much play, right? https://photos.app.goo.gl/5oY2wDzDAuYFhNFAA

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Front Wheel Bearing

A front wheel bearing on a Model T shouldn't have this much play, right? https://photos.app.goo.gl/5oY2wDzDAuYFhNFAA

That bearing appears to be "shot".

[DHort]

Something put that corn there and probably built a nest in the upholstery.

Yes, the bearing is shot. Jerry V knows.

[Arbs]

I suppose these tires need replacing as well? They sure are pricey for their size.

[Scott_Conger]

Use care in removing them; you may well find some pristine vintage tubes in there...very possibly original Wards brand

[Steve Jelf]

I would say yes, those tires are ready to re-tire.
I believe Rock Auto has the best prices for front wheel bearings. Currently they have all the bearings except the left outer.
Your local auto parts store should be able to get the seals.

[Arbs]

I would say yes, those tires are ready to re-tire.
I believe Rock Auto has the best prices for front wheel bearings. Currently they have all the bearings except the left outer.
Your local auto parts store should be able to get the seals.


Bearings, Front Wheel.jpg

Thanks Steve. This helps. Do you know if there is a diagram showing the location of the seals in the hub? I looked in the service manual and it has a great diagram showing the outer bearing, but I don't see a diagram of the hub. Maybe I'm missing it. I found this diagram on the forum but it doesn't show all of the seals you listed.



Thanks,

Dan

[Steve Jelf]

There's just one seal. Any of the three listed will do, though I prefer the neoprene. Your diagram calls it the dust cap. It covers the inner bearing.

[Arbs]

There's just one seal. Any of the three listed will do, though I prefer the neoprene. Your diagram calls it the dust cap. It covers the inner bearing.

Perfect, Thanks!

[Joe Reid]

I get my bearings and seals from Lang’s or Snyder’s, both catalogs offer good explainations of optional bearings, Timkins are expensive and the neoprene seal/dust covers are a good option. The cheaper tapered bearings are good. I have never ordered from Rock Auto. If you do you had better know the part number. That diagram tells the whole story.

[Joe Reid]

Bearing races can be difficult to change. You might need heat to drive them out. If a new bearing revolves on in the race it might not need changing. Tapered bearing will probably fall apart when they are done. Tighten your nut hand tight and spin the wheel both directions to work the grease in when you pack and install them, spin it again and again and tighten to take out play. There basically should be no play but no binding. Make sure to cotter pin. Don’t fill the hub cap with grease. Just on the bearings and races. To pack a bearing I work grease into all the surfaces around and around. It is a mess and then run a light layer on the race.

[Joe Reid]

I like your radiator and block purging system. I have heard in those old block castings people still sometimes get out sand from the original casting process. If everything is clean it will thermosyphion correctly.

[Mark Nunn]

There are great drawings by Martynn Vowell in the gallery. Click the "gallery" button next to your name. Click "Vowell art" then click through the categories until you find the front spindle assemblies. You will see where everything goes.

[Arbs]

I like your radiator and block purging system. I have heard in those old block castings people still sometimes get out sand from the original casting process. If everything is clean it will thermosyphion correctly.

Thanks Joe. I flushed the radiator and block in both directions... Bottom to top then top to bottom.

[Arbs]

There are great drawings by Martynn Vowell in the gallery. Click the "gallery" button next to your name. Click "Vowell art" then click through the categories until you find the front spindle assemblies. You will see where everything goes.

I'll check them out. Thanks!

[Arbs]

I found that 5 castle nuts on the front driver's side axle and the end of the steering shaft were missing cotter pins.
Tightened everything up and added pins.

Also my son installed the license plate and helped install an oil screen in the tranny.

And he painted the head of a new differential drain plug. The old one was mangled.

[Allan]

From the photos of the Anderson timer, there appears to be a crack in the aluminium fan pulley. That may need watching/replacing. Tyres are expensive, and of dubious quality, unless you spend a few extra dollars on Blockley tyres from England. I too suggest you remove the old ones carefully, to preserve what may be older tubes of far better quality than those commonly available today. Old tubes were actually made to hold Air!
Allan from down under.

[Pep C Strebeck]

From the photos of the Anderson timer, there appears to be a crack in the aluminium fan pulley.

Looks like a thread from a frayed fan belt.

[Arbs]

From the photos of the Anderson timer, there appears to be a crack in the aluminium fan pulley.

Looks like a thread from a frayed fan belt.

You are right, it is from the fan belt. The timer has been rubbing on the fan belt for who knows how long. I pulled the water pump so I have a new, smaller, fan belt now but the timer still rubs on it at 90% advance. My fan is angled towards the drivers side, to the point where any further adjustment would lessen air flow through the radiator. I read forum posts on this exact situation and it sounds like there are ways to tackle this. It's on my list to address this winter.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

My fan is angled towards the drivers side, to the point where any further adjustment would lessen air flow through the radiator.

That's not really likely. I think your fan belt is still too long if it's rubbing on the timer.

[Arbs]

My fan is angled towards the drivers side, to the point where any further adjustment would lessen air flow through the radiator.

That's not really likely. I think your fan belt is still too long if it's rubbing on the timer.

I will try a smaller belt and see if that helps.

[perry kete]

Don't over tighten your fan belt. They should just be snug enough to turn the fan and not tight as a fiddle string. Don't tighten it like you do on a modern car.