***Fan Assembly***

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VowellArt
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***Fan Assembly***

Post by VowellArt » Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:50 am

I'm guessing that this assembly is 1921-1925, but I'm not sure, I don't think it is any earlier than 1920 at the most, and it is certainly not beyond 1925.

1921-1925FanAssembly.jpg
Please look it over and let me know, if any of you know what size and or part number the castellated nuts are I'd appreciate you letting me know. I couldn't find it anywhere in either the parts manual or any of our modern vendors either. Also would like to know the size of the cotter pins too. If I knew the thread size of either the mounting bolt or the fan shaft I list them by that instead of a part number.
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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by jab35 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:46 am

Martynn: Another excellent technical drawing, thanks for sharing.

What is the width of the Ford fan belts and of the micro groove belts? I've seen micro groove belts much narrower than the pulley, but functionally, they worked well.

My '26 had lock washers on each of the four 3984 machine screws, I think the pre-'26 assemblies with 4 machine screws had them too. Respectfully, jb


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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by Original Smith » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:00 am

There is a slight problem here. First, there is no mention of the grub screw for oiling the fan shaft. Next, there were two styles of fan blades used during that period.

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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by DanTreace » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:28 am

Looks real nice!

The fan blade style for the late '24 to '27 is the wider stamped and welded, with squared off like blade tips. The more narrow stamped and welded blade with rounded tips was used as you posted from beginning June '20 to '24. Think the change to the late blade was about June of '24.

The bolt threads are 1/2" x 20 for the bracket bolt, and 7/16" x 20 for the fan shaft. Cotter pins are 1/8 x 1" length, bracket bolt, and 3/32 x 3/4" length for fan shaft.

The fan pulley housing oil plug is noted as part 3980 is correct and should be noted to locate into the front side housing, near the fan, of the pulley.

IMG_5750.JPG
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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by BHarper » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:32 am

Well, no and yes.
The grub screw for oiling the shaft is present. Part number 3980.
There are two different styles/shapes of fan blades.



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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by Original Smith » Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:34 pm

Woops, I didn't notice the grub screw way off in the distance. Sorry!

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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by VowellArt » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:09 pm

OK, the engine in my 22 is a 24 (I know that because I had to buy a new engine for my car and I got it from Don Bell who got the engine from a Saw Mill in Oregon...seems it used to run the entire mill) and this is the fan it had on it (I always use my car as a starting point). So, if that squarer looking fan came round June of 24, it is really a, early 25. But for the sake of argument I'll call it 24-25 (just to take in those folks who don't know when the model years changed) because in 26-27 the way the fan was mounted along with how it was adjusted changed (as you all know) and I will put that other fan on those two drawings. And I'll work backwards from there, which usually translates into there are more Fan Assemblies than I had originally thought...but then that seems to hold true with every bloody thing on this car with the exception of the Starter and the Generator.

1921-1925FanAssembly-1-A.jpg
The belt was a last minute add and covered the guide line that led the grub screw to the fan hub, corrected that. Put in the split lock washers on the fan screws, gave measurements for the cotter pins (no Willy's part number seemed to fit) and went out and slipped a wrench on my cars fan assembly to give the me nut size...thread count was the one part I was missing, thanks Dan Treace. Hopefully this is correct and we can move on to the next assembly (24-25 and 26-27 and I'll go backwards from there it's I like I always say...Fun never quits!). ;)
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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by sweet23 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:10 pm

One note on the nuts. You have the wrench size listed, instead of the thread diameter. 11/16 should be 7/16, and 3/4 should be 1/2

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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by VowellArt » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:21 pm

Ok, can't tell you what I was thinking, oh well, got to looking further and decided to include the Lang's part number for those nuts too. They have a section for Nuts, Bolts and Screws...unfortunately nothing for Cotter Pins though.

1920-1924FanAssembly-1-B.jpg
You'll note that the thread size is there also so you can go to your local hardware store too.
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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by George N Lake Ozark » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:27 am

And now you can do the TWO different styles for the Improved Ford. I have an early version if you need pics.

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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by VowellArt » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:37 am

Yes George, please post your pictures, or send them to me one or the other. :)
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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by Kerry » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:39 am

I've just finished fitting new bushes to mine, I had no nut (cast3 on the 3968) can't see how one would even fit, no room against the block and 3968 bolt too short, has room for the cotter pin though.

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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by VowellArt » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:12 am

Mine is the same, set the nut on the block and thread the shaft into the block and the nut...it sort of like a jam nut and just to make sure then use the cotter pin to keep it from backing out (which it shouldn't do anyway since the shaft is captured between the pulley and the fan blade).
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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by Mark Osterman » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:03 am

I am so impressed by your expolded drawings. Years ago I taught mechanical drawing and back then we used drawing machines, 30/60/90 and 45/90 angles and ruling pens. Yikes what a chore to do drawing like these.


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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by jab35 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:49 pm

Martynn: This is an example of the early improved version of the fan mount on water outlet.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/599638/699223.jpg

This image also shows a lengthened version of the fan hub that placed the fan blades forward, closer to the radiator core of the 'thin-cored radiators'. More hub detail here:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/342457.jpg
I was told the thin radiator was discontinued b/c it did not adequately cool, and the longer hub discontinued along with it. And you know the story of the first improved mounting brackets integrated into the cast iron water outlet, those ears used to 'clamp' the fan mount eccentric were easily broken and the design was changed shortly after the improved cars were introduced. I haven't verified dates in the encyclopedia, but I recall reading about it.

Fan hub axle p/n3966 images: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/599638/692659.jpg
Fan axle /fan belt adjustment on 'improved' improved car: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/506218/538749.jpg

Best, jb

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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by VowellArt » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:01 pm

Mark, I used to draw with a straight edge that was connected to my table with cords, it only moved in two directions...up or down and you used the 45º and the 30º / 60º triangles to draw with (and gaboons of templates) and you lettered with a Lee Roy. Had to use proportional divider to give you the measurements from the original (whether object or engineering drawing) and reduce it to your drawing size. Before that I used a Gerber (which is a real antique, like a Wryco pens). The drafting machine was a much better improvement, we switched to those about the middle of the 70's. and then to computers about mid 80's. And to tell you the truth, between the computer and the drafting board, there are pluses and minus with both, on the board I was able to achieve better shading and line structure weights than I can with the computer...but with a computer I can make changes waaaay quicker than I ever could in pen and ink, sometimes (like on here usually) it takes a matter of minutes to make sweeping changes that would take me maybe a half of a day to a day to make on the board and of course then you'd have to either photo reduce it (if it was drawn full size, which is DOD norm) or scan it to make a reproduceable hard copy or onto a computer and post it here...yeah computers are waaaaaaay better even with some shading limitations.

Ok, Jab35, these are great pictures and they tell me exactly what I needed to know, do you happen to have one with that tumbler out of the bracket? Looks like it has a face plate on the that fits (maybe) into the spool to trap it within the brackets arms. I figure tightening of that nut on the fan shaft clamps the spool in place after the adjustment is made, right? But I would like to see those parts separate from the bracket, if you've got pictures of them, if not, I'll find something on the net...maybe. ;)
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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by jab35 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:47 am

Martynn: The early improved version functions as you describe. The later improved version was clamped by tightening the lock nut on the end of the fan shaft. That action clamped the eccentric and end plate to the water outlet. There's some decent pics here posted June 21, 3:27 pm by Dan Treace.

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1435242743

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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by VowellArt » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:15 pm

Jab35, You're right, those are really great pictures, but I still have a question or two...the plate on the eccentric has two holes, one is obviously for the fan shaft and the other is for a locating pin to keep the plate from moving catty-wham-pus when you adjust the belt tension. From these pictures it is plain that the locating pin is in the eccentric part, but how about on the 26? It has a "quarter moon" shape cavity and not the "dog bone" shaped one of the 27 and that hole is in the moon cavity, but there is no pin, so my question is, on the 26 was a bolt used instead of a press fit pin for or is there a pin that presses into it?

Early26FanBracket2.jpg
This is an early 26 fan bracket and eccentric part, notice the hole in the "quarter moon" shaped cavity that is for the locating pin? Since the hole is quite a bit larger than the one on the place I'm assuming that, that hole is probably threaded and has a reduced shank for the pin hole on the plate.

27FanHub2.jpg
This is the picture that Dan Treace posted in 2015, also note the pin sticking out of the eccentric part. I'm assuming from the size of the material around it that it is pressed in, but I'm not sure.

26-27WaterBracket2.jpg
On the new replacement bracket/water outlet you can also see a pin sticking through the plate, the bolt below is to keep it assembled (probably for the pictures).

If there is a separate pin, does anybody know its part number and or dimensions?
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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by jab35 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:29 pm

Martynn: I saw a pic of the early improved mount that showed the cast iron disc that supports the axle. The circumference of that cast iron disc was cut like a worm drive wheel. Turning the bolt engaged the teeth and rotated the eccentric disc to tighten the belt. Tightening the nut of the bolt locked the disc to the holder. I'll look for that pic, seemed rather complicated for so simple a function, much too complicated and too frail for Ford. jb

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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by VowellArt » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:53 pm

You mean like this one?

26Spool.jpg
26Spool2.jpg
Early26FanBracket5.jpg
George Clipner's car is an early 26, and has this eccentric part on it. The large bolt below is what engages with the threaded knurl and turns it to make the adjustment...but to lock it in place you still have to clamp the eccentric part and the plate against the bracket.
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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by jab35 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:34 pm

Martynn: Another post by Dan Treace, 9:21 pm June 19, 2009 shows the description in the Ford Repair book.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/80 ... 1245204012

A later post by Jim Thode in the same thread is a photo ( http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/331880/368069.jpg ) of the assembly that I tried to describe. All the best, jb


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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by jab35 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:44 pm

Martynn: According to earlier posts and Ford description, the first ones with 'worm & wheel' arrangement did not have the 'washer on the back side. I suspect many who kept the original brackets added the washer after the lug on the clamping bolt broke, which almost all of them did. The washer type came very soon after the first improved ones showed problems. I assume adding the washer may have been a stop-gap used by those who did not want to change the water outlets. jb

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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by DanTreace » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:00 pm

Martynn


There is no part# for that stub (pin) on the #3987B Eccentric, the stub is part of the casting. That stub fits to the Eccentric plate,#3988.
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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by VowellArt » Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:33 pm

Looking at this picture, there doesn't seem to be an eccentric plate on the pulley side of this assembly...was there one supposed to be there or isn't there one on the early 26's?

26Pulley-Bracket.jpg
I don't see how adjusting the nut on the back of the fan shaft does anything, since there is no flange on the eccentric part nor is there any evidence of an eccentric plate either. Which would indicate that the adjustment worm screw, nut was used to clamp onto that part. So this assembly doesn't have that plate then, does it?
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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by jab35 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:43 pm

Martynn: The above picture of the assembly is the same as illustration in the Ford book. No flange on the eccentric and no plate on the fan side. The nut secures the fan axle to the eccentric. The locking bolt on the clamp keeps the eccentric axially centered in the clamp and rotates the eccentric to tighten the belt. The nut on the locking bolt clamps the eccentric inside the bracket. jb

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Re: ***Fan Assembly***

Post by DanTreace » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:06 am

James has the very correct information on the assembly.

All that could be added, is the end of the fan shaft has two flats for holding that shaft in place with a wrench when tightening the hex nut with another wrench. Since the large flat head of the fan shaft is hidden within the fan pulley housing, you can't grasp that. So the end of the threaded fan shaft is held in position when tightening the nut, to maintain the correct tension of the fan pulley against the felt seal and cap at the back of the pulley.

IMG_3665 (640x563).jpg
Later version with the non-screw style eccentric, but with similar fan shaft with two flats at the end for holding the shaft in place when tightening the hex nut.
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