MTFCA Forum

I'm replacing a broken right axle in my Ruxtell with new axles. I found the right outer sleeve was cracked, and the housing had a cracked/grooved portion at the far outer edge that either occurred at the time of the break or preceded it. Both axles were replaced 15+ years ago and the broken one had a groove at the break. The left one had a mild groove and some galling. I suspect they were from the batch of faulty axles back then. Anyway, I have 2 good Hyatt bearings measuring .497 and .498 for the outer bearings.. I have a solid roller bearing that measures .500, a worn Hyatt measuring .493, and a .498 Hyatt that turns freely but has a coating of rust on about half an inch of the rollers at one end. I have several axles in my stash shed 5 miles away. It's under 15 degrees and I really don't want to pull one apart in the cold! I'm replacing the damaged right housing with one that appears straight. All sleeves are new or show no grooves or significant wear. Can/should I use the undersized Hyatt for the inner bearing, the solid roller bearing, the rusty correct sized Hyatt, or wait for warmer weather? . I'll try to post pictures from my phone.

I won’t use solid rollers on the outboard!!
I’m OK with them on the inboard.

Assuming it's not terrible, I would use the rusty Hyatt. Of course, I would clean off the rust. I'd also put the rusty end facing away from the differential, where the load will be lightest.

No on the solid anywhere.
Use the tightest hyatt in board. Clean off the rust, then evaluate the wear. I use a wire wheel after soaking in carb cleaner .

I always run STRAIGHT housings (I have a set of testing fixtures to ensure this fact)! After 47 years in the T hobby I have had no problems with the solid rollers in the middle.

The outer end of the outer rollers have the heaviest load. Put the rusty end of the rollers towards the differential.

Art Mirtes

The solid tend to heat up as the grease/oil has a hard time getting in there.

I was able to find another Hyatt in my stash today that is .497-.498. one end is .001 smaller. I'll use it and try to de-rust the other Hyatt for possible future use. I hate throwing away the more worn one, so will keep it and consider shim stock behind the race if I use it. The solid one.....who knows? Thank you all for your advice. Noel

I agree with Les on using the solid rollers on the inside. I personally think the issue with them on the outside is we tend to not fallow
the recommendations for lubing the outer bearings. My truck uses solid rollers on the outside and they work great because the are
lubed by the oil in the diff. and they are only 1" long. Model A's used a much smaller solid roller bearing on the outside with no
issue. That was used into the forties?
Craig.

Don't discard Hyatt roller bearings that measure undersize. When installing new sleeves, you'll need them.

My truck uses solid rollers on the outside and they work great because the are
lubed by the oil in the diff. and they are only 1" long. Model A's used a much smaller solid roller bearing on the outside with no
issue.

And the Timken bearings in your front wheels have solid rollers. That doesn't mean the roller bearings sold to replace Hyatts are a quality product.

Insufficient lubrication to any bearing is of course always a problem. However the issue with using solid rollers on the outside is NOT primarily an issue of lubrication...it is an issue that the axle BENDS at this location and solid rollers do not. Even with proper hyatts on the outside, if the sleeve is not maintained/changed as needed, even flexible rollers will damage the axle.

Use 'em where the parts are not flexing, and it's fine; use them where parts are flexing, and it's not.

Comparing that application to front wheels, Model As, or nearly any other place roller bearings are designed to be used is the "apple" when comparing "oranges".

Failure after failure after failure of solid rollers and axles on the outer bearing, and there is always someone who knows exactly how to get around it.

I personally am not that smart.

When I was first infected with the model T hobby I had no personal experience with model T's. The info I got was little & pour so I had to rely
on the knowledge I had from working on 1950-1978 cars & trucks, road construction equipment manufacturing, repair, maintenance.
Petroleum refineries & fire apparatus. The first T rear end I had to rebuild ( because the Babbitt thrusts turned to pudding) I purchased the parts available from the suppliers. Seven or eight years ( 30 speedster & tour events ) later as I was inspecting & lubing everything for a upcoming
event I noticed some up & down movement in the the rear axles. After pulling it apart I found the sleeves to be badly worn. Not the axle or solid
rollers. I replaced the sleeves and having heard so much about the solid rollers I replaced them with Hyatt's. It still has the solids in the inners.
With that said in search for good Hyatt's to use I have found several Hyatt's broken into pieces. Are those oranges or apples?
If there is quality issues with the rollers other than the undesirable " solid " design please enlighten us.
I'm always open to learning everything I can when it comes to these damn things so I can better enjoy & help others to do so also.
Craig.

...in search for good Hyatt's to use I have found several Hyatt's broken into pieces.

I've found some like that and some like new. I suppose it's because some have been used a lot more than others. I don't think I've driven more than ten thousand miles yet, so I don't know how long they last.

Its a design issue. The hyatt's are a wound spring. Especially @ the outsides when you hit a bump, the bearing can flex & the load is distributed over the full length. Solid bearings can only pound the sleeve. Ball bearing conversions create a shear point where the bearing ends & the axle continues outward. I have seen a few axles cleanly sheared from ball bearing use.

Past posts have shone where the solids wear into the cage.

As far as damaged hyatt's go, I have seen a lot of loose cages that cause the rollers to wear cigar shaped. The only blown ones came from a drive shaft, where the inner race shatters & chews & breaks the rollers & decages the bearing.

Steve Jelf wrote: ↑

Sat Nov 19, 2022 4:19 pm

...in search for good Hyatt's to use I have found several Hyatt's broken into pieces.

I've found some like that and some like new. I suppose it's because some have been used a lot more than others. I don't think Ive driven more than ten thousand miles yet, so I don't know how long they last.

If kept lubed, their life can be forever. Certainly with in your lifetime. I have tore down 100+ year old axles with excellent bearings & a few with usable sleeves. Inners that are mint & outers very usable.
The weak link in the system is the sleeve. They are the softest part & take the wear. As long as the sleeve is in good shape, long life. When the sleeve breaks down with material flaking, the bearings & axles start wearing. Severely if unchecked.