MTFCA Forum

Also known as: "pbtech", "broupdx@outlook.com", "B Dunn", "patdunn49@yahoo.com".

In short, I had an ad in the classifieds looking for seat springs. MTFCA member "web365ster" private messaged me saying he knew of this "pbtech", "broupdx@outlook.com" who had some he wanted to sell. I wrote to this email address and got a response from a "B Dunn" giving me a convincing story that he had a project car that he sold to a friend because he was moving and had a couple of sets of springs left over. He sent me some seat spring pictures. I paypal him the money to his wife's account "patdunn49@yahoo.com" via friends and family. I told him I wanted a tracking number, he said he'd get it to me and then.... silence. No replies after multiple emails sent to "web365ster", "broupdx@outlook.com", and "patdunn49@yahoo.com".

I rummaged around google and found one of the 2 seat spring images he sent me that was taken off a MTFCA forum discussion from 2012. I found the original poster of that image and confirmed that he is not the one selling me these springs. So, I got screwed out of $200.

This is a major demoralizing blow to me and my project because I am very new to this field, and I am a younger guy that works 6 days a week and $200 is most of a paycheck for me. I have my guard up insanely high now because this was quite an elaborate scam. For the person to create a fake MTFCA account and post a few technical questions on the forum under that account and then to pose as a different person pitching a convincing backstory and how this guy searched and found pictures of the specific set of springs I was looking for? I don't trust anyone on here now.

It is a shame too, because up until this point, I had been having pretty good luck acquiring parts off here for my shell of a car. I still need a ton of parts too, but I don't know what I am going to do now. I've used paypal friends and family for years on many projects with no problem, until now.
Not anymore.

Below is the profile photo of the paypal account of "patdunn49@yahoo.com"

Sorry you got burned. Never never use family and friends unless they ARE family and friends.

What an awful story! Sorry this happened to you.

There is a difference between someone who has been a member of the Forum for 3 weeks and has 3 posts, and someone who has been a member for many years with 1000+ posts. Hopefully your not trusting any one here is an expression of regretful emotion and not something you will maintain indefinitely.

The springs you are looking for can be purchased new for around $200 from the vendor who actually makes them. That doesn't soothe your anger or bring back your money, but our suppliers to this hobby work hard and have many thousands of items available. If you do not trust a sale from a Forum Member, hopefully you will consider spending your money with suppliers who in many cases have been serving the hobby for many decades.

As you lick your wounds, remember there were no Model T hobbyists involved in the heist of your money...just a scam artist, and it is not indicative of how you will be treated in the future by this group, as you work through your project.

FWIW - Paypal is a No-No for me, period. Even with people I know.

I'll trust people that I have conducted business with before this incident, and people that have good reputations on here.

What worries me is that this scammer HAS Model T knowledge, judging by what they had posted on forums and wrote to me about their supposed former project car. A Model T hobbyist (or least one that has dabbled in it) WAS involved with stealing my money.

Please, no one else mention to me about using paypal friends and family with strangers. I'm quite aware of my mistake and I don't need it rubbed in my face anymore.

I want "web365ster" banned, along with any other account using that IP address, and this con game made common public knowledge, so it doesn't happen to anyone else on here.

Scott and Tom, thanks for your posts as I quite often use and request "family & friends" on pay-pal. I'll be re-thinking that from now on. Bruce

Did you contact PayPal? Just FYI- always use a credit card when using PP to send $$ to someone you don't know well.

Sad thing is, it's getting worse. Frankly you can't even be sure that is the CORRECT pic of that thief!

Using credit card thru PayPal should allow you the opportunity for recovery if your card has fraud protection like most do. Sad thing there now is, some CC companies actually consider these purchases as a CASH ADVANCE with a hefty fee as well as heftier interest if you don't pay it off right away. Let the user beware.

Not worth getting into the details, but my wife recently tried to sell an old dresser for $30 on FB Marketplace. We hated to throw it in the trash and thought someone who couldn't afford much would be happy to have it. Long story short, a scammer tried to get my wife to send HER $300 through PayPal, (a stupid sounding, convoluted, B.S. story), which of course would be paid back, plus the $30. NO WAY! My wife was then told she would be murdered. Nice... We called the police and filed a report. The scammer was most likely many thousands of miles away we never heard any more from them. What a world...

It is good that you did this through PayPal. I have never lost a penny through scammers attempting to using Paypal to scam me because I go after them with determination until I get my money back. The scammer knows that most people either don’t know how to navigate Paypal to go after the scammer, or are resigned to let it go. Do not let it go. PayPal hates to be used by thieves to instigate a scam so they are anxious to help and usually reverses these transactions with proof that a theft occurred. Compile all of the evidence such as PayPal transaction number, emails, names and email addresses. Go to your PayPal account and scroll to the bottom and click “Contact Us” and play around with it until you can speak to a person. They make it difficult to get to a real person but with patience and perseverance, you will eventually be able to speak to someone. You can choose a contact mode requesting an agent call you or you can start a chat and ask that an agent call you, then provide your phone number. Explain the situation, providing them with all of the names addresses and emails. If you can satisfy them a scam occurred, they will withdraw the money from the scammer’s PayPal account and reimburse you. If you get someone who is confused or cannot give you satisfaction, hang up and get another agent. Before hanging up, be sure to get a case reference number in case you need to call back to followup. With the case number, you won’t have to start all over. Hurry though, before the thief withdraws the money and closes their PayPal account. If the scammer has done this several times, they have probably used the same information and IP to open other PayPal Accounts, so PayPal can track them down to a new account and past accounts and ban them after retrieving your money. Keep us posted. Good luck. Jim Patrick

In this day and time people are getting smarter and younger in figuring out how to scam, lie, cheat well meaning people. Case in point is the ftx scandal with “so called “ bit coin or whatever you call it. The same folks that have that mind set are doing it in less noticeable ways on Facebook, ebay and other sites that sell or try to promote ideas in the media and digital world.

That really to bad but there will,always be scammers out there and In the digital age it’s going to get worse. It’s easier to do.

Bruce Compton wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:12 am

Scott and Tom, thanks for your posts as I quite often use and request "family & friends" on pay-pal. I'll be re-thinking that from now on. Bruce

Bruce

I send & receive money thru Walmart & PayPal.
Never had a problem with “ Gifting “.
In any Con - there has to be a “ Mark “.
I would never do any business with
someone that I could not talk with
on the phone first before any money was exchanged.


FJ

FreighTer Jim wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:00 pm

Bruce Compton wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:12 am

Scott and Tom, thanks for your posts as I quite often use and request "family & friends" on pay-pal. I'll be re-thinking that from now on. Bruce

Bruce

I send & receive money thru Walmart & PayPal.
Never had a problem with “ Gifting “.
In any Con - there has to be a “ Mark “.
I would never do any business with
someone that I could not talk with
on the phone first before any money was exchanged.


FJ

Do you think someone with whom you have spoken, wouldn't still cheat you?

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:13 pm

FreighTer Jim wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:00 pm

Bruce Compton wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 21, 2022 12:12 am

Scott and Tom, thanks for your posts as I quite often use and request "family & friends" on pay-pal. I'll be re-thinking that from now on. Bruce

Bruce

I send & receive money thru Walmart & PayPal.
Never had a problem with “ Gifting “.
In any Con - there has to be a “ Mark “.
I would never do any business with
someone that I could not talk with
on the phone first before any money was exchanged.


FJ

Do you think someone with whom you have spoken, wouldn't still cheat you?

Having been self employed
most of my adult life …
I have learned to listen
to my “ little voice “ and pay
attention to “ red flags “ …

When I don’t is when I disappoint myself


FJ

Jim

that is great advice and hopefully Ron will follow it and end up successfully getting his $$ back. I don't know Ron, but remember all too well when his life's circumstances were MY circumstances and that adds all the more to my remorse for him.

I recently ran a want ad for a part on HCCA. My cell phone number was in the ad because it is in my profile there. It thus appeared in the ad automatically (I will be taking it off the profile before I run an ad there again). The four people who texted me in response to my ad were all scammers. A google search of phone numbers or of the address associated with photos sent was revealing. Do that with anyone who contacts you that you don't know. The first three scammers put very little effort into what they were doing and were easily detected. The forth guy had done his homework and actually knew something about brass era cars. The big hurry he was in gave him away, though. He had to have his late father's storage unit emptied tomorow, and if we didn't make a deal today, the stuff would have to go in the trash. He just couldn't keep or transport it.

On the bright side, I did get the part from a legitimate HCCA member. I have been told that some scammers actually do join our clubs to create an illusion of legitimacy, though, so be careful.

Tough... such an experience leaves a bad taste in your mouth. If you're at all suspicious, doing an image search is probably a good idea. I guess we'll all be a little more cautious now.

FWIW, I replaced the bottom rear springs in my '17 touring and you're welcome to the old ones if you want them. They're repairable if you think they would be of any use. I live about 20 miles north of you.

If you want new, I recommend Snyders....they make their own and they are of the highest quality.I

Thank you for all the replies, advice, and support. I willingly gave this guy money through PayPal friends and family. As far as I can see, there is no way to get it back. PayPal specifically states that. This is just yet another hard life lesson.

I needed a set of original backrest springs. I have the cushion set.

RonGlowczewski wrote: ↑

Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:18 am

Thank you for all the replies, advice, and support. I willingly gave this guy money through PayPal friends and family. As far as I can see, there is no way to get it back. PayPal specifically states that. This is just yet another hard life lesson.

I needed a set of original backrest springs. I have the cushion set.

While PayPal states the issues with sending to Family/Friends you may help other by exposing this PayPal user. In fact you may be able to get your money back if indeed others have complained. PayPal holds the funds of a transaction until the client transfers it to their bank account. So when the client sets up an account they do agree to allow transfers. In any case nothing ventured nothing gained.

One of those life lessons. It's hard not to be bitter but sometimes the bitterness is way more consuming that the sting of losing the $200. Don't let it completely spoil your faith in people especially here in the T community. I always like to talk to the people on the phone in order to get a feel for who they are and if something seems off then usually you can back out. Also dealing on the phone prior to gives you an opportunity to swap stories. The stories are one of my favorite things about the hobby.

- Bryce

If you sent the money from a linked credit card, versus from existing PayPal funds, I'd contact the credit card company and report the fraud. In the past, I 've had very good cooperation from the CC folks.

Back to the top for your Thanksgiving reading pleasure!

Marc Roberts wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:10 pm

I recently ran a want ad for a part on HCCA. My cell phone number was in the ad because it is in my profile there. It thus appeared in the ad automatically (I will be taking it off the profile before I run an ad there again). The four people who texted me in response to my ad were all scammers. A google search of phone numbers or of the address associated with photos sent was revealing. Do that with anyone who contacts you that you don't know. The first three scammers put very little effort into what they were doing and were easily detected. The forth guy had done his homework and actually knew something about brass era cars. The big hurry he was in gave him away, though. He had to have his late father's storage unit emptied tomorow, and if we didn't make a deal today, the stuff would have to go in the trash. He just couldn't keep or transport it.

On the bright side, I did get the part from a legitimate HCCA member. I have been told that some scammers actually do join our clubs to create an illusion of legitimacy, though, so be careful.

Ther are scammers everywhere. we can all move cautiously.