Timing gear cover seal

Rich P. Bingham · Post by **Rich P. Bingham** » Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:23 pm

Maybe it's time for this "purist" to swallow his pride and accept a newfangled retro-fit ? The timing gear cover camshaft seal is bleeding a wee bit more than I'd care to see on my 1913 T. Last time I dealt with it, I recall not feeling 100% assured the fix was a good one.

Does anyone have suggestions for dealing with or replacing the 1913 (and earlier) felt seal ? The seal fits in a channel in the cover casting. The early ones are different from the later covers which will accept a modern type seal. Perhaps the best solution is to locate a later model cover ?

Les Schubert · Post by **Les Schubert** » Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:35 pm

I have to ask this question, how good is the surface where the seal runs? I have seen quite a few that are quite rough/worn/pitted! No seal will work well then. There is a fix if the surface isn’t good. You can install a Speedi-Sleeve and now you have a hard ground smooth surface that any type of seal will survive on. Not really cheap and yes you will have to lift the block from the pan a bit.
Just my experience!

TrentB · Post by **TrentB** » Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:00 pm

Following up on Les’ point, what condition is the camshaft lock nut in? Many camshaft nuts are severely worn where the seal rides. If you are going to take the front timing cover off, you might want to change the camshaft nut while your at it.

Respectfully submitted,

Trent Boggess

Rich P. Bingham · Post by **Rich P. Bingham** » Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:18 pm

Thanks for the excellent suggestions fellows ! I will do that ! (Both items)
However, what I was aiming at is suggestions for seal material and a method for dealing with the camshaft seal in the old style gear cover.

Allan · Post by **Allan** » Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:38 pm

I replace the camshaft nut as a matter of course, so you have a nice new surface for whatever seal is used. The felt seal in the gasket kit is way too soft. It is fine fur use over the back of the transmission cover where it needs compression, but not around the camshaft nut. I would be looking for a denser felt to make a replacement gasket, or at least fitting an O ring in the cover groove to partially fill the grove. Then when you fit the kit gasket, it will be packed tighter. If you have ever fitted the gasket kit front felt crankshaft seal, you will know how easily that is compressed.

The last of the non generator covers had the open cam seal groove that will take a modern seal, AND a fat crankshaft seal grove that will take the white rope seal like the A models.

Allan from down under.

Post by **got10carz** » Sat Dec 03, 2022 9:17 pm

Rich, on my 14. which is the same cover as a 13, I machined it for the modern seal. I centered it on the timer diameter. I'm not aware of a fix without removing the cover.

Post by **Craig Leach** » Sun Dec 11, 2022 10:48 pm

Steve,
I'm going to assume that the O.D. on a early timing cover 9-14 felt cavity is smaller than the later cover 14-27? What is the diameter of
the cavity? has anyone tried a metric seal or a poly-pack seal in this position?
Craig.

Post by **Original Smith** » Mon Dec 12, 2022 10:36 am

If you are able to change the front cover, replace it with a 1915. The 15 doesn't have the front lip for the felt seal, and looks 100% like the 1913 when installed.

Norman Kling · Post by **Norman Kling** » Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:39 am

One thing not mentioned above. This might or might not be a cause of the problem. How good is your front cam bearing? If it is worn, your cam could be off center or wobble back and forth just enough to compress the felt and cause a leak.
Norm

Rich P. Bingham · Post by **Rich P. Bingham** » Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:52 am

Thanks fellows, for the helpful suggestions !

Post by **Adam** » Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:42 pm

Rich, You can ship it to me and I will machine it to accept the modern seal for $25. I’ve done it many times. If you are interested, send me an email. I don’t receive pm’s and might not see a post here.

“Original Smith’s” suggestion of installing a non-original part in its place is somewhat surprising…

Post by **RajoRacer** » Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:52 pm

Some of us don't have mill handy, Adam.

Rich P. Bingham · Post by **Rich P. Bingham** » Mon Dec 12, 2022 6:14 pm

Adam wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:42 pm
“Original Smith’s” suggestion of installing a non-original part in its place is somewhat surprising . . .

Kinda surprised me too, Adam. Thank you for the offer.

What I was hoping for was advice from someone who has successfully reproduced a replacement for the odd '09-'14 seal. Last time, I butchered some medium hard felt and wrangled it into the seal cavity, but it was a rough job in more ways than one. I think what little it weeps would be "good" for the original timer roller, but I'm maintaining the TW that came with the car when I bought it. While I haven't had any timer troubles (yet ?) the TW doesn't really like an oily environment.

I'm loth to change the cover or machine it for a retrofit seal, in the name of preserving originality - which proves we "purists" are a conflicted lot - or I'd be running a 100% original timer !

Post by **Adam** » Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:00 pm

The ones I’ve machined are a bit smaller but just about the same size as the later counterbore size. You should be able to split the later size felt in half with a new razor blade and pack one of the halves in. Saturate the felt with oil before you install the cover. It should help to make a cone out of .003” shim stock & place over the cam nut journal before installing the cover, then withdraw after the cover is in place.

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Timing gear cover seal

Timing gear cover seal

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