MTFCA Forum

Hello, I hope somebody can give me a little advice in this.
My Touring 1916 (original brass radiator) was out for repair. The repair company found out that the upper hose connector was very badly soldered and so they also fixed that hereby. After re-installation I drove some times and never saw water under my T. Now temperature in my garage decreased from 20°C -> 10°C, and I suddenly see a little pit below engine front end.

Searching for the leakage, I quickly found out that the gap between upper hose and radiator neck was full of water. I already use stainless steel clamps to have more pressure on the hose ends, so I tightened the upper one a bit more. One week later the same. A little bit of water below the car. But the brass radiator neck is dry!
To find out if the water comes from between hose and neck or if it is trickling along the neck down from the radiator, I took a piece of toilet paper and insulating tape, and attached it to the underside of the neck, 1/2" above the hose. If water comes from the radiator, it cannot get into the gap but will trickle down the paper. This will remain visible on the paper, even when it dries.

From technical view, this hose is a little bit sub-optimal. It is extremely short and thick, so when the car is flexing around its length axis, the hose will permanently pull on the neck. Also the neck has no really smooth surface.

• Can the force caused and applied by the hose hurt the radiator's neck?
• Does somebody know an alternative hose, optically matching but having little folds for allowing free movement between engine and radiator? Like the hoses used inside washing machines between pump and kettle, but with smaller zig-zag. I think it is better to use such hose and protect the radiator hereby.
• Shall I use some black sealing paste (as used for sealing the oil pan and hogshead) between hose and radiator neck?

Would be great to receive some suggestions and ideas.

Rainer

I have had clamped rubber coolant hose connections leak during unusually cold weather. I assume it is caused by exceptional contraction of the metal and rubber parts. Use of spring type clamps avoids this problem. In the case of conventional hose clamps, tightening them a little while they are very cold will usually end the problem. It's best to protect vehicles from extreme cold to whatever extent is practical.

Use non hardening #2 gasket sealer between your neck and rubber hose to seal it. I don't use a modern hose clamp because of the risk of crushing the neck.

Like Jeff, I use some sealant; mine is Ultra Black RTV.

Smear it onto the neck, smear a little inside a NEW hose, slide on (it will be slippery) and gently clamp. Let cure for 24 hours. Fill with coolant.

Whenever you want to remove the radiator, simply remove the 2 upper outlet bolts and the 2 lower inlet bolts and remove the radiator and pipe assembly as a unit. You will not believe how easy it is to remove and replace things this way. On top of that, your leaky unions will remain leak-free for years and years.

And please, stop using water (if that's what you're using). Please use coolant and save that block for the next generation.

happy motoring!

I agree with Scot. I don't know how the winters are in Vienna but I suspect it gets below freezing, so you should use some form of anti-freeze in the cooling system. If not you should drain the cooling system so the engine and radiator does not freeze and crack. However, draining will also cause increase in rust so the anti-freeze with rust inhibitor is best.
Norm

Rather than using a sealant for the hoses, I smear grease on the inlet and outlet so it will be easy to remove the hoses if I need to do that. I use the old style clamps, but with fillister head screws that allow the screwdriver to get a good bite.

I also remove the radiator and hoses as a unit so I don't have to disturb the hoses. The first time I reinstalled the unit I applied Ultra Black to the inlet and outlet, then the paper gasket, then another layer of Ultra Black. I smeared grease on the head and the block, bolted on the inlet and outlet just enough to flatten the Ultra Black, and let it set up. This made a permanent rubber/paper/rubber gasket on the inlet and outlet. Now any time I reinstall the unit I smear grease on the permanent gaskets and bolt the inlet and outlet onto the block and head. I don't have to clean off old sealant and use a new gasket.

Does somebody know an alternative hose, optically matching but having little folds for allowing free movement between engine and radiator?

The correct hoses were good enough on millions of Fords 100 years ago, and they're good enough now

I'm with Steve J. on the use of grease rather than a sealant of some sort. I've been told that most any heavy bodied grease will work, but I still have a can of water pump grease, so that's what I use.

The beauty of grease is that the hoses go on easily, but they come back off just as easily. No need to cut the hose or to scrape off old sealant from the necks before reassembly. Old tractor mechanic secret.

And best of all, you don't have to buy new hoses every time. I'm sure Steve appreciates that little economy just as much as I do.

I believe water pump grease would be a good choice, since it is supposed to be free of anything that would injure hoses, old or new.

Thanks for your experiences.

Yes, I use plain water since I had my radiator at repair. It was leaking at the underside of upper chamber because of very bad soldering. The radiator repair company showed me then three very little pinholes close to upper end of radiator tubes. Very fine air bubbles came out when testing with compressed air. I decided to give it a try in the car, as water is lots thicker than air and there's no pressure at all. -> Success, no leaking,
I kept plain water inside for two reasons:

• Even when water can pass this pin holes, it will vaporize and the calcium will clog the pinholes. Well, the radiator ribs are dry...
• I had thermal problems before the radiator was out for repair. As water has better heat transportation than coolant, I wanted to see if things changed before starting with coolant which might prevent applying heat resistant glue to pinholes. Oh yes, what a difference! It was never boiling even not on longer steep hills, where high gear was on its limits. But I will use a very decent mixture of coolant, for approx. -4°C, as my garage is never below +8°C during winter.

Having a close look on the rubber hoses, I'd say they are not very old, perhaps a few years. There was some kind of silicone in the gap, because the necks are not very smooth any more. This silicone was used by former owner. When I pulled the engine for clutch replacement, it was hard to get them off. But at least it would have been necessary to get the hoses off for radiator repair (soldering).
I guess what you name "Ultra Black RTV" is some kind of sealant for oil pans, gaskets, etc. ? In this case "Reinzosil anthrazit" is identical (this I used on my engine block.
I will have a close look on the brass neck. I will smear some Reinzosil into the hose end and also around the neck, then twist+push the hose on it. This should end up in a 100% waterproof connection that can be loosened again.

A final question about coolant...
Are there special coolants for engines having copper+brass+iron in touch with coolant? As I mentioned, I want maximum cooling efficiency and I don't need a real freeze protection at all. As Scott Conger said, conserving the the block is much more important, but I also don't want to be scared on ever steep hill it it will boil again. I will also ask at companies making coolant, they should know it.

Rainer

Pretty much any anti-freeze or coolant will work for you. I use Prestone 50/50 coolant. It is pre-mixed to a concentration of 1/2 water and 1/2 coolant. My water here comes from a well and has excessive calcium in it, so the pre-mixed solution works well for me rather than adding water to a concentrate of coolant.

The loss of cooling using this mixture is only a few % less than that of pure water, but provides corrosion protection to the system which in my mind is of greater benefit than the loss of cooling capacity. Whenever someone is making the decision to use water or not, due to overheating issues, and the system is so borderline that any little error in timing or extra work to climb a hill leads to overheating, the fun of the car is gone. At least for me...

I realize that a new radiator is a great cost and annoyance for you, but there could perhaps be something else you could do at less expense.

Feel free to contact me if you'd like.

Another benefit of antifreeze it raises the boiling point of the coolant.
Art Mirtes