MTFCA Forum

I don't know who John Ruskin is/was, but this quote of his, found on another forum that I look at, brought my mind back to this site... for some reason. I consider it humorous, so don't take offense please.

"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey."

John Ruskin

John Ruskin 1819-1900. English writer, critic and polymath of the Victorian era.

Nowadays, they make stuff worse, charge more, and we are the unwilling prey, because there are no other options.

Ruskin later became a cigar.

Price and VALUE are not always the same thing.

Spot on Rich. However, nowdays we do have an alternative to the junk clincher tyres in Blockley's!

Allan from down under.

Okay, you be the judge. Hypothetically------I'm a manufacturer and or a dealer. In order to make a quality generic part it takes me a substantial amount of time, plus the cost of the quality material I'm going to use, and so in order to make ends meet and me to make some sort of profit I charge $55.00 each for the item. A guy in another state also sees the need for this part and wants to make a buck and sell a lot of them, so he contracts with a company in China, has no idea what's in the materials they use, the finished item looks okay and he sells them for $27.00 each. Which guy is going to stay in business selling to Model T or Model A guys??? Sad but true.

Ed aka #4

Precisely, Ed, and the reason why there are no alternatives to crap. Alas, partly what spurs this on is there are no standards for reproduction parts; more, the majority of "old car owners" do not require parts that will give yeoman service in hard-use situations. Like movie props, if it fills a hole and looks like the real thing, it will do. Few of us are qualified to tell if such parts will stand the gaff. Those whose involvement in the hobby is to own "trailer queens" will never find out the difference. Those of us crazy enough to drive them as if they were real cars remain frustrated.

I remember a time late 70s early 80s I think, when most items in the store had a choice between the pricey item and the cheap Chinese item, apparently most chose the cheaper one and now thats all we get. I realize that there were other factors involved but I do believe that was part of it.

That is why I prefer to buy original Model T parts on T-bay instead of reproductions. By most accounts, reproduced parts cannot meet the same high standards of original Ford parts and if you have patience, original Ford parts can almost always be found. Jim Patrick

Price, Quality, Availability - pick any two

Too true Steve. But in the absence of other than shoddy tyres, and no specs to ensure quality, we were stuck with what we could get, nasty rubbish. Thankfully, we now have a choice.

Allan from down under.

There would be less shoddy merchandise if more people refused to buy it.

Should be "There would be less shoddy merchandise if vendors would refuse to sell it."

Whenever a group gets together in an effort to better their industry for the benefit of the consumer, the minute a decision is made that may affect the pocket book of the members of the group, at least one abandons the effort and it all falls apart. That is why nothing usually ever results from a well meaning endeavor where cooperation and participation are essential for success. Jim Patrick

No one stays in business selling things people do not want or can not afford. The Worlds Largest Retailer is simple proof of that.

99% of people want "cheap" and that's the sole reason retailers like Walmart and others exist, despite the 99% frequently and loudly professing to hate to buy "Made in China". People are so predictable.

When is the last time you said "nope" to the $4.00 6-32 tap at ACE hardware and opted to go on line and buy the $18 USA MADE tap? Yeah, I didn't think so.

It's the unintended consequences of a misguided attempt to bring Chinese people out of slave-labor into a more democratic and prosperous world.

HAH! - Didn't they show us!

And how.

I've been out a good deal of money, at least in first cost, in the last couple of decades by reason of buying American-made whenever possible. It's becoming more difficult by the day to find new, made in USA merchandise.
It goes FAR beyond Wal Mart. Be it tires, agricultural supplies, automotive supplies, home & garden stuff, hand tools, power tools, industrial supplies, pipe fittings, etc; just about everything on the retail shelves is MADE ANYWHERE BUT HERE and usually MADE IN CHINA.

While I've paid substantially more for a wide variety of USA-made items at purchase, in most every case, the quality and durability of these items has offset the cost difference, and then some. I heard recently that over 90% of clothing sold in the USA is made elsewhere. Brand names mean nothing. Read the fine print. It's amazing how many places, other than the USA, that things are being manufactured, in whole or in part, for sale here. I will continue to buy MADE IN USA, to the extent that it is still possible to do so.

Food? Read the small print on the packaging. It's probably not from here, either.

Capitalism knows no borders, or pledges allegiance to any flag except to those who profit from their endeavors. I understand the frustration, but I think that's how it's supposed to work? Being an educated consumer is how we influence what is offered.

I will now turn off my computer before it catches on fire.

Henry Ford was a Capitalist. A great deal of the cost of manufacturing in the USA is imposed by government at various levels, on various pretexts.

I have a theory about "brand names" and "Made in China" products:

I'm one of those "Seniors" that likes to stick to well known "brand names that originated way back when we were kids. but what I think happens all too often is something like this:

Some design engineer that works for an American company that sells a Chinese made item that bears a well known American brand name that we've been familiar with since our parents bought that high quality brand name item when we were kids,....that engineer comes up with a way whereby that item can be made much cheaper by contracting with the Chinese manufacturer, and looks as good as always and sells as well as ever, but wears out or breaks soon after purchase, and the engineer convinces his superiors that even if the reputation of that well known and highly respected brand name is thus ruined forever, their American company has made a huge profit (and the engineer gets a nice bonus) and even tho' the good reputation of that old respected American brand name is totally destroyed, the consumer blames the "Made in China" lable which has now become the supposed reason for the poor quality, when in reality, the Chinese manufacturer has provided exactly the poor quality that the American company bearing the old highly respected brand name has contracted the Chinese to build. It's called "corporate greed", and It's ALL about money,....period! Anyway,.....my "opinion", for what it's worth! .....harold

There are hostile business climates, and there are benign business climates. The USA business climate has become increasingly hostile toward manufacturing and most other productive business activity in recent decades.

“The high cost of a low price”

Harold

With respect, I can state with certainty that engineers do not sit around the cafeteria table dreaming of ways to make a good product cheaper/inferior and then sell that idea to Management.

It is 100% the other way around, and the engineer can either do as he is told, be fired, or quit.

I chose option 3 and I am enjoying my (very) early retirement more than anyone can imagine. Thank you very much, American Industry.

One reason why I never shop at Walmart.

I bought a Toro snowblower because it is built in WI, so I am supporting an American worker.

I bought a Model T too. It was American made. I hope the parts I need to keep it running are also Made in America.

Apple Music is getting a new karaoke feature and Tik Tok is like, exploding!

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:36 am

Apple Music is getting a new karaoke feature and Tik Tok is like, exploding!

Thanks for your relevant observation Pat. I guess this is how you make 4441 postings in less than 2 years.

I bought a Model T too. It was American made. I hope the parts I need to keep it running are also Made in America.

Only if you run it without tires.

It is relevant. Extremely so. Look who and what is making BIG money in this country today. Look at their "product".

"He knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing."

I was quoted Ruskin many years ago and then found this match package which I have had taped in front of me at my desk for twenty five years.

Ken Buhler wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:56 am

I was quoted Ruskin many years ago and then found this match package which I have had taped in front of me at my desk for twenty five years.Ruskin.jpg

Wow! That's cool!

It is the end-user, the consumer, that is the economic boss. It's not the manufacturer of a product, nor the distributor of that product, nor the manufacturer of a larger product that incorporates that first product into his finished, larger product; it's the consumer because he, and he alone, has the power to "stop the train" and reverse the consequences of our buying foreign made products. I't's no one else; it's the consumer, all by himself.

All that the consumer, and his neighbors need to do, is say "no" to purchasing products made overseas when there is a Made In USA alternative.

Government policy at all levels plays a huge role in the manufacturing/import picture. It cannot be ignored. In many categories, new, domestic produced goods are no longer available in the USA. Many people genuinely cannot afford new, USA-made product, if and when it is available.

"...when there is a Made In USA alternative"

Yep.

The original theme of this all was the matter of "Quality versus Price", and not "Foreign versus Domestic". (I do realize the two are closely related.) Also, not about government versus manufacturing. It's about human nature making us the willing victims of the purveyors of junk.

There is always a reason for a truly exceptionally low price. Usually, there are several. Many substantial costs associated with making products and services available to consumers are not under the control of raw materials suppliers, manufacturers, retailers, or consumers. The consumer pays all costs at retail.