The dirt funnel

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
User avatar

Topic author
Doug Keppler
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:28 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Keppler
Location: Fredon N.J.
MTFCA Number: 49716
Board Member Since: 2016

The dirt funnel

Post by Doug Keppler » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:14 pm

20190112_110113_resized.jpg
Has anyone ever figured out why HF would design his engine with a funnel so every time the sparkplug is removed dirt goes down into the cylinder. Now come on Farmers didn't have compressed air
1924 Touring car
There's No Substitute for Proper Lubrication

User avatar

Rich Eagle
Posts: 2846
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:51 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Eagle
Location: Idaho Falls, ID
MTFCA Number: 1219
Contact:

Re: The dirt funnel

Post by Rich Eagle » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:26 pm

The obvious answer is to get the plug closer to the combustion chamber. It collects water if the hood hinge has worn and lets the threads rust. I suppose you could leave the plugs a bit loose to blow it clean. It is aesthetically more pleasing than a flat surface to my eyes. FWIW
Rich
When did I do that?


Peter, Memphis TN
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:00 pm
First Name: Peter
Last Name: Claverie
Location: Memphis, TN

Re: The dirt funnel

Post by Peter, Memphis TN » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:16 pm

The more learn about the origin of the Model T, the more I wonder just how much of its design was done by Henry, and how much was done by the Dodge Brothers. Of course Henry approved what they did, but did he have a hand in the design of details like this?


Norman Kling
Posts: 894
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:39 pm
First Name: Norman
Last Name: Kling
Location: Alpine California

Re: The dirt funnel

Post by Norman Kling » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:21 pm

Yes it is to get the plug closer to the combustion chamber and also to allow a larger water jacket above the cylinder. Rags are easy to come by and almost everyone had a tire pump, so not so hard to clean up and anything small enough to miss a rag or tire pump air, would go right out the exhaust anyway.
Norm


Rich Bingham
Posts: 1225
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:23 am
First Name: Rich
Last Name: Bingham
Location: Blackfoot, Idaho

Re: The dirt funnel

Post by Rich Bingham » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:27 pm

FWIW, most "L" heads are like that. I've never noted a worrisome amount of "stuff" in plug wells. If they fill with water usually the plugs short out and you stall. :cry:
"Get a horse !"

User avatar

BobD
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:08 pm
First Name: Bob
Last Name: Doris
Location: Prescott, Arizona
MTFCA Number: 32538
Board Member Since: 2017

Re: The dirt funnel

Post by BobD » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:31 pm

I wonder how the engineers got around this on the Model A head? No recess or well around the plugs there. :?:


Wayne Sheldon
Posts: 1682
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
First Name: Wayne
Last Name: Sheldon
Location: Grass Valley Califunny, USA
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: The dirt funnel

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:52 pm

Also for what it is worth. The Metz which used a motor so similar in some details as to be able to use Ford T model parts for repairs, does not have that funnel top. The spark plugs for them are about an inch and a half longer on the bottom end. I wouldn't mind getting a few more of them if someone has some and been wondering "What the (??) are THESE for?" I do have a Metz project pile I may never get around to restoring, and am short good plugs for it.

The worst thing about that "funnel" on a T model's head is that if left sitting outside for a year or ten, water collects in those dips. If the threads are all very good, and the plugs tight, it may be okay. However, I have opened up a few engines that had sat for years, and found one of the cylinders didn't seal well enough around the threads of the plug, leaving three cylinders in good condition, with the other one nasty inside.

User avatar

Richard G
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:29 pm
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Grzegorowicz
Location: Hartland VT

Re: The dirt funnel

Post by Richard G » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:16 pm

my grand mother had a bellows hanging by the fire place, bet that would work, YOU NEVER WANT TO CRITICISE A farmer with your mouth full, and the definition of a farmer IS A MAN OUTSTANDING IN HIS FIELD. GOD BLESS OUR FARMERS ! I am next door to one,he is 55 and looks way older, seven days a week sick or not .a job not for the weak.

User avatar

Topic author
Doug Keppler
Posts: 155
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:28 pm
First Name: Douglas
Last Name: Keppler
Location: Fredon N.J.
MTFCA Number: 49716
Board Member Since: 2016

Re: The dirt funnel

Post by Doug Keppler » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:39 pm

Richard I was in no way criticizing farmers, back in the days of Model Ts they seemed to be the ones mostly buying them
1924 Touring car
There's No Substitute for Proper Lubrication

User avatar

Richard G
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:29 pm
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Grzegorowicz
Location: Hartland VT

Re: The dirt funnel

Post by Richard G » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:03 pm

DOUG, did not mean it that way ,growing up my mom would say, when we said any thing about the food. just thought i would pass it on ,ive used it many times . one of those neat sayings.to express gratatude to the farmer.

User avatar

Duey_C
Posts: 1015
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:28 pm
First Name: Duane
Last Name: Cooley
Location: central MN
MTFCA Number: 32488
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: The dirt funnel

Post by Duey_C » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:25 am

Temperature extremes will put water in the funnel too. Cold engine-warmer environment. Seen this many times here. Part of the reason I kicked 2 T's out of the cozy little shop. Darned ice in the funnels.
If the threads aren't perfect, the water runs down like the dirt.
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated


Wayne Sheldon
Posts: 1682
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
First Name: Wayne
Last Name: Sheldon
Location: Grass Valley Califunny, USA
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: The dirt funnel

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:44 am

My wonderful grandfather was a farmer, for most of his life. And, I have his old air compressor. I don't know just how old it is, or how long he had it. But he replaced the electric motor I think in the '50s. The tank, steel wheels, and wood sub frame he built all look like something from a hundred years ago.
One of my most cherished possessions.

User avatar

Richard G
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:29 pm
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Grzegorowicz
Location: Hartland VT

Re: The dirt funnel

Post by Richard G » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:14 pm

WAYNE this forum is the best thing sence roasted peanuts,you get to visit with folks from around the world that u would never other wise speak with, we could pass each other some where in our travels never to know they have the same love. im not much for some of the modern junque, but this cobfuzer is something !


Wayne Sheldon
Posts: 1682
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
First Name: Wayne
Last Name: Sheldon
Location: Grass Valley Califunny, USA
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: The dirt funnel

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:00 pm

Richard G, Yes it is! I do think the "back porch", thread drifts, and friendly banter, all help build relationships and make this forum a busy place where serious questions often get answered quickly. It is funny how friendships are on the interweb, about a year after we moved to Califunny, Terry Horlick and I ran into each other in the local DMV. He saw me reading my "Horseless Carriage Gazette", introduced himself, and then we found we knew each other from this forum!


Wayne Sheldon
Posts: 1682
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
First Name: Wayne
Last Name: Sheldon
Location: Grass Valley Califunny, USA
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: The dirt funnel

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:35 pm

Why did I type "moved to Califunny"? I have been in Califunny since I was five months old (Proud to NOT be a state native!) . I meant to say "moved to Grass Valley".
Can we edit mistakes on this new forum?

User avatar

Richard G
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:29 pm
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Grzegorowicz
Location: Hartland VT

Re: The dirt funnel

Post by Richard G » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:57 pm

THE WORD IS YOU CAN, BUT DON'T YOU ALWAYS SAY WHAT YOU MEAN? been to that state twice, glad both times to get back to the mountains.there realy is NO PLACE LIKE HOME !nice visiting with you, have a super day. RICH--G

User avatar

Bob in Texas
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:44 am
First Name: Bobby
Last Name: Wright
Location: Texas Gulf Coast
MTFCA Number: 37124
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 22715

Re: The dirt funnel

Post by Bob in Texas » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:26 pm

When working around an engine with plug or plugs out I like to screw 1/2 inch pipe nipple(s) in the plug hole. Mine are 4 inches long. Otherwise anything you drop that will fit will find a way to go right down the funnel hole.
Bob on Upper Texas Gulf Coast.
"I was too young to know better.
Now I am too old to care."

User avatar

Richard G
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:29 pm
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Grzegorowicz
Location: Hartland VT

Re: The dirt funnel

Post by Richard G » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:58 pm

BOB, YOUR A SMART MAN, THAT'S A SWELL IDEA,OLD PLUGS WOULD WORK TOO. THERE HAS BEEN A FEW TIMES WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN THAT SMART, LIKE WHEN YOU HAVE THE TOP END OF A ENGINE TORE DOWN AND ALL THE BOLTS N JUNK IS PILED ON AND AROUND ANY PLACE THAT'S FLAT, AND WHEN YOUR ABOUT BUTTON;D UP THERE IS SOMETHING MISSING,AND AFTER SWEEPING THE FLOOR YOU BEGIN TO SWEAT, YOU GO GRAB A CUP OF JAVA AND CALM DOWN GO BACK AND FIND IT BEHIND THE BATTERY OR HIDING ON THE SHOCK TOWER, NOT WHERE YOU PUT IT. I PICKED UP SOME OF THOSE LITTLE ROUND TRAYS WITH MAGNETS ON THE BOTTOM, MUCH SAFER PLACE FOR THINGS. AND YOU CANT DISLODGE THINGS BECAUSE THE MAGNET HOLDS EVERY THING IN THEM TO,IF YOUR GOING TO USE THEM ON GOOD PAINT PUT A SHOP RAG DOWN SET THE TRAY ON IT.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic