MTFCA Forum

Hi all,
I'm selling a vintage jeep and wondering how you get paid. Do you get cash in dollars, or a bank check/cashiers check and deposit it? Do you deposit it in a commercial account? Does Uncle Sam get notified and someone comes calling? If cash, how do you make sure the greenbacks are good?
Thanks,
John

Have the buyer come to your local bank or credit union and pay you there. If it’s cash the tellers can tell you if it’s good. If the buyer doesn’t want to meet you there find another buyer.
You could also have the buyer get a cashiers check and meet you at your bank or credit union.
If the buyer still won’t do it find another buyer.

What ever you do have the buyer meet at your bank.

Thanks, but does the IRS get notified if the price is like $15k or more?

Phone your attorney or your accountant.

Don't meet anyone at an ATM, ever.

You will probably be made to pay state sales taxes and other fees. NYC may also collect taxes on vehicle sales. DMV would know. If you have any "gain" on the sale, you will have to share it with The Big Guy and likely your local mob. If you live in NYC or own any property there, you'd best consult a competent tax attorney in that jurisdiction. Any significant amount of money moving into or out of any personal account anywhere in the country will be reported by the bank to The Big Guy.

John,
You have good reason to be cautious, lots of scams out there. I take it this is not a local transaction, so you dont know the guy and he is not using a local bank.

Cash is king, but a large transaction requires a lot of bills and a lot of counting. There are pens that will detect counterfeit, easy to get at a local office supply. Never used one, and don't know how or what to look for.

A personal check is fine if you allow time for it to clear before completing the transaction, usually a week is enough. I once accompanied the buyer to his bank where he had a cashiers check cut and the teller handed it directly to me. I have always deposited checks in my personal account, never had a bad check, never had a problem.

As to banks reporting the transaction, they might, if it is a large sum, and or you are making a lot of deposits.

Most people loose money selling a car, the taxes and fees usually are the buyers responsibility.

Provide a bill of sale including the sale price, the buyers and sellers full name, address, and signature. Keep a copy for yourself, and not a bad idea to take a photo of the buyers drivers license.

Do not accept a check or bank deposit for more than the asking price with you expected to refund the balance, that's a scam.
Do not allow anyone to take possession prior to you getting paid in full including the check clearing the bank.
Do not pay for anything for the buyer.
Do not do an international transaction.
Do not deal with a third party broker or shipper, that's a scam.

I would think that the likelihood of getting counterfeit cash, versus a bad check, would be extremely low. I would also guess that purchasing an item, like a vehicle, with funny money would be very risky for the buyer, since vehicles are titled and tracked through DMV's. In other words, at some point, somebody is going to register that vehicle and open up a data trail leading back to the seller/launderer. I suppose you could look on-line for easy ways to spot bogus cash...

Find out about vehicle title procedures. They vary. You want a clear title, if possible.
Some states will assign a value to a vehicle based on who knows what and tax accordingly. Beware.

I believe that IRS tax forms have lines for you to report property/asset sales or acquisitions or disposition, including motor vehicles. Cash movement is tracked. Some states may have fees that a buyer must pay in addition to registration fees. Texas collects a special fee from buyers of diesel powered vehicles. Your business is their business. Beware.

OK, so the buyer is in the Czec republic. I believe that he is legit by way of the specific questions he's asking. No scammer would ask if the front end and rear end are original Ford, or that the springs appear to be aftermarket not original Ford. I trust this guy. To that extent. He has a niece in NYC whose husband is a doctor and I spoke to him. Sounds funny, right? Anyway, my daughter is also a doc and looked up the husband/doctor and he is legit. Takes a doctor to know a doctor. Anyway, I told the buyer I would only accept cash. He has his own shipping company, so I don't get involved at all. So.... I'll meet the doctor and he'll hand me bills that I can check with a marking pen (good purchase) and a shipper will put the vehicle on a truck and I'll sadly say "good by".
Thanks,
John

SINCE YOU ARE SELLING THE VEHICLE

To start with any form of a check: (personal, money order, Certified Bank Check, etc) are treated the same by your bank. You will be credited for the deposit BUT you are liable for the amount until the check clears. It no longer matters which kind, they all can be counterfeit.
Banks are required to report to the IRS single deposits exceeding $10,000. https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/understand ... ansactions
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A safe way is a bank transfer half at time of purchase and the other have before its picked up and wait till they clear too. That could keep deposits below the reporting threshold.
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Sales taxes are the responsibility of the buyer, to be paid to their State of residence
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A Capitol Gains declaration is up to the seller. Original purchase price, parts, labor, fees etc to determine the basis value of the asset and then the difference in selling price. If you do this you need good records if you get audited. Many owners have failed to maintain such records. LOL
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Now here's the catch, how is the car being sold? A private sale, via eBay etc... there may be some reporting there by the agent to the IRS ad that may cause you to report the amount as personal income on your 2023 1040
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NY John T wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:52 pm

OK, so the buyer is in the Czec republic. I believe that he is legit by way of the specific questions he's asking. No scammer would ask if the front end and rear end are original Ford, or that the springs appear to be aftermarket not original Ford. I trust this guy. To that extent. He has a niece in NYC whose husband is a doctor and I spoke to him. Sounds funny, right? Anyway, my daughter is also a doc and looked up the husband/doctor and he is legit. Takes a doctor to know a doctor. Anyway, I told the buyer I would only accept cash. He has his own shipping company, so I don't get involved at all. So.... I'll meet the doctor and he'll hand me bills that I can check with a marking pen (good purchase) and a shipper will put the vehicle on a truck and I'll sadly say "good by".
Thanks,
John

Dear GOD...this should be done ONLY by electronic transfer...period. As for IRS nosiness...you'll never escape the government unless it IS cash UNDER your mattress. I believe the amount that banks must report now is VERY low...but I really can't remember. Seems its less than $5K. Someone said it was that same $600 that the feds tried to make PayPal report, so that could be true. Anyway...do it by ETF. I'm serious. Good luck.

Oh John, say it aint so.
The buyer is in another country. The buyer's- niece's- husband, going by the name of a NYC Doctor, is acting as an agent... what could possibly go wrong?
The only person willing to buy your jeep at your price is in the Check Republic?
It does not pass the smell test.

No way! There is somebody in this country that will buy it. These days a foreign transaction is out of the question. For me I wouldn’t even think about it.

No comment on selling you car one way or another.
Just want to relay what my wife was told by Secret Service agent when she was making a deposit for her company that contained a fake 100. Bank caught it and held her till the Fed showed up.
He show her the only way a common person can tell if the bill is fake.
Take your finger nail and rub the coat of the person pictured on bill. If it is real you will feel the little dots that make up the lines of the cost. Fake bills don’t have that. They will be smooth. He said pens are just a joke to make you feel good, waste of your money.
Just passing on info for you guys that still do swap meets.
Few years ago there were passing them at Hershey.

Good luck with your sale.

NY John T wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:52 pm

OK, so the buyer is in the Czec republic. I believe that he is legit by way of the specific questions he's asking. No scammer would ask if the front end and rear end are original Ford, or that the springs appear to be aftermarket not original Ford. I trust this guy. To that extent. He has a niece in NYC whose husband is a doctor and I spoke to him. Sounds funny, right? Anyway, my daughter is also a doc and looked up the husband/doctor and he is legit. Takes a doctor to know a doctor. Anyway, I told the buyer I would only accept cash. He has his own shipping company, so I don't get involved at all. So.... I'll meet the doctor and he'll hand me bills that I can check with a marking pen (good purchase) and a shipper will put the vehicle on a truck and I'll sadly say "good by".
Thanks,
John

I think this is being made more complicated than it is. Simply as it is, basically you are in a sense selling it to the doctor who is giving you the money. The real events after that do not involve you or are traceable to you. You just sign the Title and get the money then your out of the picture. All the rest of the purchase, the interested party in the Czec republic, is just noise making it appear more complicated.
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You are in effect selling it to someone in the USA and all concerns are the same about counterfeit money, IRS etc so check the doctors id to make sure its him, then just take the cash and make 3 deposits

A couple spaced deposits & some for the mattress.

I take cash or dead presidents and statesmen of the past
Wanna keep uncle Sam out of it don't deposit more the 8k per day cash check or transfer as any more then that get reported you don't need worry much but that's a banking law atleast where I live

TWrenn wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:16 pm

NY John T wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:52 pm

OK, so the buyer is in the Czec republic. I believe that he is legit by way of the specific questions he's asking. No scammer would ask if the front end and rear end are original Ford, or that the springs appear to be aftermarket not original Ford. I trust this guy. To that extent. He has a niece in NYC whose husband is a doctor and I spoke to him. Sounds funny, right? Anyway, my daughter is also a doc and looked up the husband/doctor and he is legit. Takes a doctor to know a doctor. Anyway, I told the buyer I would only accept cash. He has his own shipping company, so I don't get involved at all. So.... I'll meet the doctor and he'll hand me bills that I can check with a marking pen (good purchase) and a shipper will put the vehicle on a truck and I'll sadly say "good by".
Thanks,
John

Dear GOD...this should be done ONLY by electronic transfer...period. As for IRS nosiness...you'll never escape the government unless it IS cash UNDER your mattress. I believe the amount that banks must report now is VERY low...but I really can't remember. Seems its less than $5K. Someone said it was that same $600 that the feds tried to make PayPal report, so that could be true. Anyway...do it by ETF. I'm serious. Good luck.

I totally agree with Tim!

That story is way too complicated to be above suspicion. It seems that scams always have some convoluted scheme for payment, fraught with excuses for doing the deal outside of the norm, such as ETF, and always involving legitimate sounding "friends".

Honestly, your desire to not involve the tax man, may make you more willing to accept non-standard methods of payment and therefore more prone to fall victim to a scam.

Eastern Europe may well be the scam capital of the world. I am not a doctor, and I would not play one on the telephone, but some people would. It's all too easy to manufacture or commandeer identities on the internet. Fostering trust is the scammer's primary tool. Successful cons always have a plausible "story". My cousin's mom was a hypochondriac and my cousin worked in medical records until Covid hit, but then the hospital closed and he had to move to Bulgaria for work, but as far as I know she never owned a Jeep. But she did marry a cowboy with a nice Chevy 4X4. BEWARE! So many chains of veracity have broken, fictional, or missing links.

How is a cash transaction between two people within the USA a foreign transaction? I guess all the bits I bought at Chickasha in 2010 were foreign transactions then.
How will any DMV be involved with a vehicle to be used in another country?
If the seller does not become involved with shipping, how is it not reasonable that the buyer engages a shipper of his own choice. I had to do just that to import my 1927 Tudor, and organise trans shipment to a shipper in Nwe York.
By all means check that the cash transaction is legitimate, and do the swap when the cash is in hand. After that, it is the buyer's responsibility.

Allan from down under.

For all of the clever people depositing $8K at a time, that is called "structuring" and is a form of money laundering (ain't THAT special!) and it is crazy illegal. If it is reported to the FEDS by the bank, and they're supposed to, it can land you in a hell of a lot more trouble than depositing the full amount and letting the bank simply report to the IRS. It is a clear attempt to break the law.

How you take payment is your business, not mine. How you account for income is your business, not mine. Whether or not you think the tax structure is fair, blah, blah, blah, is your business not mine; but playing games with the IRS is not something I personally chose to do.

and that is one goofy sounding sale to Czech Republic

Get a wire transfer of federal funds to your account from the buyer. The bank will notify you when the funds have been received and those are good funds available immediately. You can't avoid declaring it unless you get green backs and keep them under your mattress. I am sure you have more than enough in original purchase price and expenses to cover any capital gains.

Any cash transaction over $10,000 at a US banking facility (or entering the US Border with an amount over that amount) will require you to complete a IRS Form 8300.
Those movements/transactions are not illegal, but must be formally reported.
Ron Patterson

Why wouldn't you have posted this in the "Off Topic" section ??????? It's really not Model T related.

Ron Patterson wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:51 pm

Any cash transaction over $10,000 at a US banking facility (or entering the US Border with an amount over that amount) will require you to complete a IRS Form 8300.
Those movements/transactions are not illegal, but must be formally reported.
Ron Patterson

This is how I understand it as well. I pay and take bank checks......Do not need issues with the IRS thinking I am into some funny business. Sad but true that 80,000 more IRS agents will make even small transactions into an audit

As suggested above - meet your prospective Buyer
at a full service bank that has a Notary on duty.

Prepare a Bill Of Sale listing vehicle description
& VIN & name of Seller & Buyer along with date
and time of sale and paragraph stating vehicle
is free of liens & encumbrances and is
“ sold as is with no warranty express or implied “.

After the bank counts the money & makes sure
it is genuine - execute the Bill Of Sale and transfer
any legal ownership documents like the title.

Notarize two copies - one for the Seller & Buyer.

Never transfer ownership without closing out
the title or ownership documents in the name
of the Buyer - never “ title skip “.

Since you are receiving cash as payment,
what you choose to report is up to you


FJ

If he deposits the money into the bank it gets reported. Trust me Bank Check is the way to go as they are looking for funny business.

So.... I'll meet the doctor and he'll hand me bills that I can check with a marking pen (good purchase) and a shipper will put the vehicle on a truck and I'll sadly say "good by".
Thanks,
John


NY John T


My advice, STAY AWAY from this transaction! Your contact has not been personal, only over the web or email/text. That is RED FLAG for scam.

Meeting a so called 'doctor' you never met, and give them your vehicle to be loaded up and away...is risky, there may be only the Drs 'agent' who could be an unsavory character, and you may end up worst than fearing the IRS.

Would never do that to meeting up with a stranger(s) in their place of contact!

This is common sense info off the web:

Caution when Selling your Vehicle
Experts also recommend the following safety steps when selling a vehicle:

Check and confirm the identity of a potential buyer.
Meet at a safe public venue to avoid criminals taking forced possession of your vehicle.
Never allow a potential car buyer to test drive the car alone, it may even be required to take another person on the test drive with you.
Ensure that the potential buyer has a valid driver’s license and sufficient insurance in case of an accident occurring while on the test drive.
Do not leave the car or the keys unattended or left in the ignition. A key swop is a common method used by criminals to steal a car.
Be wary of car buyers who do not want to view the vehicle in person.
Be wary of payments made by cheque. If a buyer pays with a cheque, wait until the check has been verified, cleared, and given value by the bank before transferring ownership or handing over the vehicle.
If the buyer wants to pay with cash, arrange to meet at the bank where the cash can be verified and banked safely

A few tips from my experience,
I bought a T from a seller here on the forum and imported it into the Netherlands.
First I had personal contact with seller through this forum and later through personal e-mail and telephone calls.
After agreeing a price (very reasonable) i contacted a reputable company to not only handle the actual shipping but also to have their agent in the US inspect the car on site and do the transfer of funds through their 'escrow service' so the seller had his certified check in hand before the shipper collected the car at his place a few days later.
The company kept me well informed (with pictures too) about all the steps in the process.
Of course this extra service comes at a price, but it gave me and the seller more security that everything was legit.
Many collector cars get imported into Europe from the US and there are several firms of good repute who can handle the business end of the deal as well as the shipping.
To sum things up; Former eastern block countries are a certain Red Flag, so are deals through nieces, "friends" who live in the US, even (or more so) if they are supposedly doctors, lawyers or other "trustworthy professionals"
I would let this deal pass and sell to someone else, too many smelly details and Red Flags here

All banks, credit unions and similar others are required to promptly send a form to an unknown location for every transaction over $10,000 with information on the person that took the money into them or the person that took the money out.

There is no requirement to list the purpose of the transaction.

If you ask for a Money Order or other document for $9,995 to avoid that form and pay $6.00 for the document, the information still has to be sent.

With regard to this verified Doctor, I can provide you with the name of a real, genuine doctor that your daughter can look up and verify. I can also tell you that it's me. We can even speak over the phone. Problem is, I ain't no doctor

I hope you're taking all of this to heart and really questioning this whole deal.

If you're intent on making this deal work, then use a certified Escrow company and insist that the buyer pay the cost of it.

That will either seal the deal or kill the deal right then and there.

John kuehn wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:47 am

Have the buyer come to your local bank or credit union and pay you there. If it’s cash the tellers can tell you if it’s good. If the buyer doesn’t want to meet you there find another buyer.
You could also have the buyer get a cashiers check and meet you at your bank or credit union.
If the buyer still won’t do it find another buyer.

What ever you do have the buyer meet at your bank.

When I lived in Medway, MA the local police department had an illuminated area in it's parking lot (closest to the front door) that was under constant video surveillance and was specifically for the purpose of recording private transactions involving the exchange of merchandise for money.

That video evidence could look like a drug deal to a zellious prostetuter.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 13, 2023 1:43 pm

That video evidence could look like a drug deal to a zellious prostetuter.

"prostetuter"

Yup, they could run their private transactions there too I suppose...

Oh, the directions you could take this...but I won't.

Update! All good. I was able to meet with the buyer's agent (his niece and her husband the doctor). All was legit. I got the money in cash. I had bought a counterfeit bill checker and used it and all the bills were fine. The buyer in Czec Republic is very happy that I went through with the deal. So good on all points. His shipper has contacted me and we'll setup a date for the vehicle to be picked up.
Thanks for ALL the feedback. Positive and negative. It's always good to hear all sides!
John

Well that sounds good. Did you get the title completed,transferred and completely out of your name? Hope so.

NY John T wrote: ↑

Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:48 am

Update! All good. I was able to meet with the buyer's agent (his niece and her husband the doctor). All was legit. I got the money in cash. I had bought a counterfeit bill checker and used it and all the bills were fine. The buyer in Czec Republic is very happy that I went through with the deal. So good on all points. His shipper has contacted me and we'll setup a date for the vehicle to be picked up.
Thanks for ALL the feedback. Positive and negative. It's always good to hear all sides!
John

VERY happy that it worked out for you John! I don't consider that there was any negative feedback, since we were all on your side and all wanting the best for you!