MTFCA Forum

In addition to changing my bands to Kevlar, I also suspect that I have a clogged oil line….. I was going to kill two birds with one stone.
So now the question becomes, Don’t I need to remove the hogshead to get to the oil line on a 27 Tudor?….. this is my first model T project and I don’t know another way to clean the oil line….. am I just missing something?
Thanks in advance and cheers

I could be wrong but I don't know of any other way.

Ford Service Manual tells how to access the oil tube from the front of the engine by removing the cam gear cover. If a particular band lining needs the hogs head removed I would use a different lining. I have replaced bands on a 26 coupe four times in my life, always thru the access cover. And as difficult as it may be, it is many times more difficult to remove the hogs head with the engine in the car.

I always have used Scandinavia linings. If kevlar linings require removing the hogs head I wouldn't know, but that would be one more reason for me not to use them.

Humblej wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:27 pm

Ford Service Manual tells how to access the oil tube from the front of the engine by removing the cam gear cover. If a particular band lining needs the hogs head removed I would use a different lining. I have replaced bands on a 26 coupe four times in my life, always thru the access cover. And as difficult as it may be, it is many times more difficult to remove the hogs head with the engine in the car.

Not removing the HH to install Kevlar is playing Russian Roulette with 5 of 6 chambers loaded.

If you are HH removal adverse stick to Scandinavian lining. That doesnt mean your bands are not bent out of shape & wearing out your lining prematurely, but, the lining will wear out as opposed to the extra friction breaking a drum with poorly installed Kevlar.

Run the bands looser with Kevlar and a heavy foot don't slip them on off only
As stated you can get to the oil line if hogs head back on behind the timing gear orginals have hole and blow compressed air though it or ?

There are a lot of complaints about Kevlar being so tough that they have been implicated in causing cracked drums possibly due to the heat caused by Kevlar dragging on the drums, or being unable to absorb and hold enough oil to lubricate between the drums and bands. I am very happy with my Guinn’s wooden band linings that have been in my T for over 12 years, but they should be installed with the hogshead off to ensure perfect roundness of the bands. Jim Patrick

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:38 pm

Humblej wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:27 pm

Ford Service Manual tells how to access the oil tube from the front of the engine by removing the cam gear cover. If a particular band lining needs the hogs head removed I would use a different lining. I have replaced bands on a 26 coupe four times in my life, always thru the access cover. And as difficult as it may be, it is many times more difficult to remove the hogs head with the engine in the car.

Not removing the HH to install Kevlar is playing Russian Roulette with 5 of 6 chambers loaded.

If you are HH removal adverse stick to Scandinavian lining. That doesnt mean your bands are not bent out of shape & wearing out your lining prematurely, but, the lining will wear out as opposed to the extra friction breaking a drum with poorly installed Kevlar.

I have always installed Kevlar bands through the hogshead opening. Haven't cracked a drum yet. I would agree however that removing the HH would make a neater job of it, albeit more labor intensive.

Nv Bob wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:03 pm

Run the bands looser with Kevlar and a heavy foot don't slip them on off only
As stated you can get to the oil line if hogs head back on behind the timing gear orginals have hole and blow compressed air though it or ?

Bob, I thought of blowing through the little hole too, but didn't mention it because 1. Now ya gotta get the stinking gear off with risk of damaging it or something, and 2. Now ya run the risk maybe of blowing crap up through and into the trans. area. Maybe that's not that big of a deal really, but I'd prefer not to.

Blowing from the timing cover you risk separating the funnel from the line. When I changed the transmission last year the funnel was not spot welded to the line.

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:15 pm

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:38 pm

Humblej wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:27 pm

Ford Service Manual tells how to access the oil tube from the front of the engine by removing the cam gear cover. If a particular band lining needs the hogs head removed I would use a different lining. I have replaced bands on a 26 coupe four times in my life, always thru the access cover. And as difficult as it may be, it is many times more difficult to remove the hogs head with the engine in the car.

Not removing the HH to install Kevlar is playing Russian Roulette with 5 of 6 chambers loaded.

If you are HH removal adverse stick to Scandinavian lining. That doesnt mean your bands are not bent out of shape & wearing out your lining prematurely, but, the lining will wear out as opposed to the extra friction breaking a drum with poorly installed Kevlar.

I have always installed Kevlar bands through the hogshead opening. Haven't cracked a drum yet. I would agree however that removing the HH would make a neater job of it, albeit more labor intensive.

Thats more RISK than I am willing to take for myself or customers & friends. This I am firm on. I have one friend that has broken 2 low drums from over adjusting on fresh transmission overhauls despite my warnings & fool proof adjustment procedure. Yet, if properly adjusted & used properly they last A great long time. I have at least 5K miles since I have adjusted & 10K plus since installed. I love & endorse Kevlar, but am quick to point out their unforgiving nature.

John. Can you enlighten us on your foolproof adjusting procedure? I know I would benefit from it. Thank you. Jim Patrick

jiminbartow wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:12 pm

John. Can you enlighten us on your foolproof adjusting procedure? I know I would benefit from it. Thank you. Jim Patrick

Sure. This method is important to not over adjust Kevlar bands, but, also applies to all band lining. IMO.

Low Is easiest being externally adjusted. RHD has 2 bands externally adjusted. If you have all 3 externally adjustable, its real fast & easy.

Low: With the motor running & the parking brake set, tighten the low band adjuster until you hear a change in the triple gear noise. Back off 1/2 turn & lock the nut. Low is now optimally set to its safe maximum.

Reverse: Same with external band adjusters. As stock, press on the pedal while running. Note the movement in the pedal cam. Listen for the triple gear tone change. Take up on the internal nut until you remove almost all the extra lost movement in the cam ramp. As a check(with the inspection cover back on) Run & note the triple gear noise. There should be none until the pedal just starts to lift off the cam ramp.

Internal brake: (N/A with external brakes) For this band the procedure is the same as reverse, except one wheel must be off the ground. (take all precautions & block the front wheels.) With the parking brake off & running, Note the change in engine drag when the brake pedal is applied. Open the inspection cover & take up most of the wasted cam ramp movement. Re cover & check brake pedal travel when running. There should be no engine drag until a little after the ramp starts to engage.

With external adjusting pedal shafts, its a matter of tightening the adjusting bolt & backing off 1/2 turn once slight band engagement is sensed on all 3 pedals. They make the job faster, but, a stock pedal can be properly/optimally adjusted without them.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:52 pm

Low Is easiest being externally adjusted. RHD has 2 bands externally adjusted. If you have all 3 externally adjustable, its real fast & easy.

Low: With the motor running & the parking brake set, tighten the low band adjuster until you hear a change in the triple gear noise. Back off 1/2 turn & lock the nut. Low is now optimally set to its safe maximum.

I used John's low pedal adjustment method last year when I discovered that my lock nut had become loose on a long drive. I made the adjustment in a parking lot, and it was quick and easy. Thanks, John.

With the right wrench,(15/16 offset box wrench for the lock nut) resetting the low band adjustment can be done from the bottom side.
This saves the trouble of removing the mat & floor boards. Not a big deal normally, but on a center door with the carpet screwed down, its a welcome option.
Extra care must be taken working under a running car. (saftey last )
Chock the wheels & move carefully around the hot exhaust pipe.

Great! John. Thank you. Jim Patrick

Not knowing John's method, I do it differently. To ensure the maximum clearance between the relaxed band and the drum, I adjust the bands from the low side, adjusting them up until they work without slipping. It takes a little to and fro driving in my driveway to set them. Once they all perform as they should, a road test will reveal if any additional adjustment is needed. Kevlar bands will need a couple more adjustments as they bed in, but after that they just do the job. Do not be tempted to give the nuts a bit more of a turn to eliminate the need for these finer bed-in adjustments. The aim is to get them working well without the temptation to adjust out any extra pedal movement. It's a bit easier for us with two external adjusters on our RHD cars.

Allan from down under.

I am going to try speedy's method of adjusting my much loved cotton bands.
Art Mirtes

Like see how one adjusts reverse while the engine running?? Listening for a tone
But ok
5+/- psi blown through a hole to removing lint / sludge hasn't destroyed a Funnel yet but if it's old one it possible But the vibration much more a risk¹

Dont try to adjust the internal band adjustment with the motor running, your Friday weekly bath will be with oil.

I’d like to thank everyone who took the time to respond…. I’ll let everybody know how it turns out…… i’m going to be putting in fresh babbited rod bearings in and lapping the valves….. i’ll be installing the bands last!
Have a great Sunday everyone!

https://www.newaymfg.com/cutters

much better than lapping, will result in certain sealing if using new valves, and will leave a properly dimensioned seat

lapping leaves a wider seat. When calculating the very low valve spring pressure, if the valve seat area is increased the PSI seating pressure relative to area is reduced. You will be less able to "chop" through carbon bits and run a far greater risk of ending up burning valves/seats when you have wide seats. Cutting the seats to 3 angles almost always results in less material removed than lapping (valves less sunken into block) and assures correct seat dimensions. Something to consider.

Another potential issue with lapping valves against the seat, in addition to those cited above, is the tendency to cut a groove in the valve face, especially if the lapping procedure is too aggressive. This will give a good initial seal, but when the exhaust valve heats up and expands in operation, the groove will move out of register with the seat to some degree, which will affect seating, which may cause the valve to overheat, which will aggravate the problem.