1913 Speedster who built it?

[Catbird]

Excited about purchased a 1913 Speedster with some exciting upgrades! It is in transport to me. But the online dealer has no knowledge of parts worked into it except
5 McClaren wheels (new)
KC Warford (new)
Brass Livingston Vee Radiator
Large brakes
Alternator
E&J headlights (converted LED)
Electric Starter
Spotlight
12v System
"Fatman" steering wheel
Under carriage, fenders, black powder coated
Engine completely rebuilt

Questions:
what upgrades to the engine?
what brakes are on it? I an tell it has larger drums, like 1927 and 1926
what else?
who built it and how can I talk with them?

[Catbird]

Additional pics

[JTT3]

Wow sure is a nice looker, looks like dual exhaust a new Warford & ruckstell plus new Rocky Mountain brakes. Hi volume intake & straight through Nh carb.
There’s a lot of eye candy there. I also believe I saw a distributor set up based on the coil inside the engine bay on the firewall but not sure because of the master coil. I think you may be having some fun soon.

[ThreePedalTapDancer]

Very nice.

[Steve Jelf]

Does the dealer know where he got it? Maybe that person can tell you about it, or steer you to somebody who can.

I see two extra levers. One is the Layne Warford, and the other has a rod toward the rear. Ruckstell?

[Catbird]

Yes, Steve, it also has a Ruckstell.

[Aussie16]

A lovely looking speedster. I have no idea who built it but they appear to have done a very nice job. It is so clean I would say it has also not done many miles? I am a little perplexed as to why someone would install both a Ruxstell and a Warford? For such a light car and with a few mods, Henry's original 2 speeds are more than enough. Good luck with finding out who built it. I have always wanted something like that.

[OilyBill]

The best thing about this little speedster is that the original builder spared no expense or effort in building it. McLaren wire wheels were OVER $700 EACH when I bought my set in 2002. The quality of the build appears beyond reproach. Everything on the car looks like it was VERY WELL DONE. You appear to be getting a car that will be very capable, and a joy to tour with. I hope you spend many happy hours and miles seeing the country the best way possible - from on top of a Model T!

[Rajo23]

Likely an unpopular opinion here, but here goes.

What I see is a part salad.
If the engine is NOT a 1913 it is not a true '13 speedster. Is the frame a '13? Is the rear end a '13?
I would love to see a TRUE '13 speedster.
Fakes such as these are corrupting the idea of a '13 speedster.
Thus these should not be held in high esteem.
The excellent workmanship I see here ought to have been done on a car that is worthy of it.
The original builder is clearly an artist--why not build an above average black-era speedster or a 26/27 speedster (whatever year the engine/frame is)?

[Catbird]

Thank you for your opinions. I am still waiting delivery. I suspected it is not a true 1913 Ford, but a representation of a 1913 Speedster, and very well done. The dealer I am buying it from may not be a true Model T expert. Neither than me. But the car has a certain naïve charm. A large amount of money has been well spent. Not sure what money has been done to the engine, we'll see.

A farmer was asked about his well-loved axe. "Have had it for forty years. I replaced the head 21 times and the handle 26 times, and it is just as good as new."

If you love it, so what?

[Rajo23]

I should add this sentiment--

Please enjoy the car, drive it LOTS with smiles.
It is worthy of enjoyment.

[BobShirleyAtlantaTx]

Where did the automobile come from? The drop front axel is a major clue as to the quality we are looking at, on top of everything else! You will probably want to change the engine oil anyway, I’d make sure it has a Scat or forged crankshaft. All I can say is WOW the Automobile is Beautiful. Happy Motoring!

[Catbird]

Bob Shirley Atlanta tx,

What about the front axle?

I am trying to find the original owner/builder. The dealer does not know. I think he got it from another dealer.

Who knows what goes on inside the engine. There will be telltale cluse once I get it.

My other speedster (1927) owner died and did not leave documentation. Working around from an outside filter and an oil pressure gage. A Model A crank. Possibly balanced. I guess it has drilled passages. Have high compression pistons (had the head off due to leaking gasket) and dual Solex carbs and custom exhaust. Ruckstell axle. Obvious things.

But the joy is the detective work that we all like to do about our toys. Too bad they can't talk!

[tvw]

Yellow car is beautiful! Original 13 or not someone put some $ into that.
Warford and Ruxtell does seem like overkill tho.

[ThreePedalTapDancer]

Almost looks like the one on the cover of this book. I have a new warford trans, it’s a nice addition to have. Lots of good stuff on that one. Enjoy your purchase, looks like fun days are ahead.

[DanTreace]

Thank you for your opinions. I am still waiting delivery. I suspected it is not a true representation of a 1913 Speedster, but it is very well done. The dealer I am buying it from may not be a true Model T expert. Neither than me. But the car has a certain naïve charm. A large amount of money has been well spent. Not sure what money has been done to the engine, but imagine. . . . . . . .

Let's see when

Just real nifty to look at! The builder did great work, from the pics can see it has a ‘26-‘27 engine block, elec start, alternator. Intake is repro large alum, looks like ‘straight thru’ Holley NH carb too. Should be a bunch of fun, and some brass rubbing Has a lot of bling added to the dash like the ole time master coil used by some in the early teens, and that speedo head.

Check over all fluids and grease all before running as may need overall maintenance. Only other odd is that brass steering wheel spider, looks like it has dome cover for cosmetics? Can’t see the typical steering wheel nut that captures the wheel spider center to remove the wheel and gain access to the steering cluster underneath to lube its gearing.

[ThreePedalTapDancer]

The steering wheel is a fatman, I’ve seen that model before. It uses this folding mechanism underneath and has no hole on top. I think it’s a smooth top Fox fatman wheel.

219C7196-1F26-439F-8133-9E8CDC16F93D.jpeg (51.73 KiB) Viewed 2489 times

[Catbird]

Fatman wheel was also called a "Ladies Wheel." Can you imagine getting into a car with a hoop skirt?

[farmboy]

Look at previous title or registration for previous owner's name and address..

[Catbird]

Title/Registration is in dealer's name. He had it for two years as his personal car. I do have a title number. Can I use this to search back?

[farmboy]

You should be able to go to whoever issued the title in your state and get previous owners. Take copy of title when you go.

[Scott_Conger]

those days are long past where the state is going to give you any information at all regarding previous owners

[Catbird]

Thanks for all your replies. If you can't find it, I am giving up! No big deal.

[Wayne Sheldon]

I remember seeing ads in the club magazines for those steering wheels about twenty years ago. I noticed them because I had a cast iron original one on the 1916 center-door sedan I had thirty years ago.
I never saw an original one made of brass, and the brass ones I have seen were more nicely finished than the original cast iron one I had. The original cast iron ones are not common. I have only seen maybe eight of them over the years, about half in photographs of other people's cars.

The yellow 1913 is a very nice looking car! As said, not exactly a correct era car, but nice enough, and well balanced in appearance.
Since I have looked at hundreds of era photographs of speedsters, I can tell you that most of them from the brass era were crude, and had few if any mechanical upgrades. A lot of accessories were available for model Ts and other cars in the mid 1910s. Coal basket foot warmers, lap robes, and surprisingly a fair number of rear view mirrors were showing up by the end of the T's brass era! Firestone type demountable wheels were popular for the model T by then, and made by several companies. Beyond things like that? Mechanical upgrades were just beginning to show up.
The Moore two speed underdrive was the first major produced auxiliary transmission especially for the model T. They hit the market right about the beginning of 1916. The first commercial overhead valve for model Ts was Roof about 1917. "Better" carburetors were being offered, but not yet very popular. I think I once saw an era ad for auxiliary brakes from around 1917 also.
What is interesting (at least to me?), is that a couple companies (including Ames!) were offering speedster kits and bodies by 1915! Although they were available, and some were sold? They were not common that early. But they WERE around.

Dealer's exceptionally nice brass era speedster;

Another;

481859.jpg (45.12 KiB) Viewed 1987 times

They didn't all look so nice, but this one isn't too bad either. Note the fenders!

[Wayne Sheldon]

Somewhere, a few years ago, I saw a good era photograph of a brass era speedster. The car was nicely done, full fendered, with a basic seat, gasoline tank, and small toolbox on the back. Except that other details in the photo identified it as an "era" photograph, it looked like a typical Rootlieb gentleman's roadster kit car. I am fairly sure that I "harvested" that photo and had it either on my computer or in a Photobucket account that I used to have.
However, a few years ago now, I had two things that lost a bunch of era photos that I had. I estimated that between the two events, I lost between two and three hundred photos, and possibly more. Photobucket, a company I NEVER really trusted, broke the promises to the many thousands of customers they had with free accounts. They promised a certain level of non-commercial photo hosting, and more than implied forever. I opened an account with them because so many other people did, and shared photos through them. Photobucket made it tricky to copy their hosted photos, but simple to transfer copies onto another of their customer's accounts. So, for reasons of simplicity, I kept a few hundred photos there.
Then one day, they began playing games with my account. My photos got shuffled around, difficult to sort and find what I knew was there. Then they began advertising better levels of service, for a few dollars a month. Well, I don't tend to like people or companies that lie to me, or break the promises they made. Hijacking my photos doesn't make me want to ever do business with them either. I did manage to copy off about ninety percent of all the photos I had stored there. And since I didn't use them for photo hosting, generally none of the photos I shared went dark later.
A point of fact. When thousands of people didn't pay them their demanded (I will call it what it was!) ransom, hundreds of thousands of photos shared in good faith, slowly went away. Websites like the AACA, over the course of about a month lost thousands of shared photos! People that did no harm to deserve such treatment are denied information that had been shared in good faith.

The other event, was my own computer did a partial meltdown. My bookmarks files were almost totally erased. My photo files, fortunately, were not totally erased. However, they were horribly scrambled! After the scrambled files were carefully cross loaded onto a new computer, I spent so many hours searching through files, and moving things back where they belong. There are still hundreds of photos in files they do not belong in, but I don't care enough about them to fix it. And every once in awhile, in some bizarre obscure corner of my computer, I will still find a lost photo I want! Numerous photos ended up in word processing programs, where they absolutely DO NOT belong! They hide in programs I have never used.

If someone knows of the era photo of which I speak???? Could you please post it here? It would be a great addition to this discussion of what was and wasn't done in the brass era!
Besides. I would like to harvest it again so that I may share it with other people on other threads.

Meanwhile, I can only say it that such cars were in fact built during the brass era. So although they may be a bit too common today? (Debatable?) They are not entirely wrong.

Beautiful speedster! Enjoy it a LOT!

[TXGOAT2]

I'd guess that many very early speedsters were banged-up second hand cars that young guys bought cheap. With little cash for repairs or replacements, they probably took off and discarded cracked and battered fenders and running boards, and immediatley noticed better performance and economy. The cars looked racy, too, and more like aircraft of the day. Like motorcycle people, they quickly discovered that less weight equals better performance, and less sheet metal equals more speed.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Warwick Landy (Ausie16), et al,
I like the combination of a Warford type auxiliary transmission and a Ruckstell rear end. The Warford's main function of course is the overdrive for flat out running on relatively level ground! In hills, the two have slightly different gear ratios and advantages as well as disadvantages in shifting abilities.
Also, a few times, when flying in overdrive, there has been a need to downshift for just a few seconds. Often on a slight hill, where unnecessary shifting of the Warford is NOT advisable (especially if one like me keeps the transmission brake in play!), a quick couple of shifts of the Ruckstell usually works great!

If I am going to have only one in a model T? I tend to prefer the Warford type (Muncie, Chicago, Jumbo?) with standard rear end gearing. I love the overdrive, and usually can manage the shifting issues. A Ruckstell with 3 to 1 gears is good, and shifts easier, but lacks some of the flexibility in road use.
The 1924 coupe I used to have? It had a Rocky Mountain Six Speed (U-D-O progressive shift) with a Ruckstell! Talk about the best of both!

[Wayne Sheldon]

Pat McN, et al,
The big thing about speedsters, is that they were meant to fulfill a dream. Yes, they were usually a couple or few years old when as cheap used (and often almost obsolete!) cars, they were cut down into something resembling the racing cars common in their day!
Although even in the early 1910s, some of the top racing cars of the day were finely finished with full bodies? Look at things like the Peerless Green Dragon, Blitzen Benz, and some of the beautiful racing cars Case built! The majority of racing cars in the early 1910s were rough built cut-downs with second-hand seats and gasoline tanks. Many of them, even professionally built racing cars, if they were repainted at all? It was with a small broom!
Real racing cars, amateur built ones and even most professionally built ones, got much more attention paid to the engine or suspension to handle the competitive speeds of even then, than they did the looks of the car.
What a young man wanted was a look and a feel of a real racing car! A simple model T chassis stripped down to a simple crude body had the look! And able to do an easy 45 mph was so much faster than anything the young man had ever experienced in his life to be PLENTY FAST! Remember, MOST people in those days had never traveled much faster than a good horse could gallop. Even cross country passenger trains rarely ever exceeded 45 mph! And most trains ran well below that.

To use a modern term? Building speedsters was a "fad". It began before the model T was marketed, following the racing car styles of those days. And it continued to follow racing car styles through to the mid 1920s. Speedster bodies became much more full during the 1920s, because racing cars were more full bodied. In the early 1920s, there were dozens of companies building bodies and kits, many dozens more offering all sorts of accessories, for model T (and other) speedsters. By the end of the 1920s, less than a dozen companies were left building bodies. And the accessory manufacturers moved on to other accessories for other cars. In the 1920s to 1927, the boat-tail was king! As the cut-down open speedster slowly began to fade away.

The model T speedster thing never went away completely. A few people were building such cars for all sorts of reasons throughout the 1930s. There was an upswing during the wartime 1940s because young men coming of age couldn't buy a decent automobile for any kind of money they had. They only thing they could get was some old model T some neighbor had sitting beside a garage or in a barn. Some kids were happy with the old T model the way it was. Some painted silly slogans on it to fit their displeasure. Other? Believe it or not? Forty to fifty years ago, I personally met and talked with more than a dozen people that had built a model T Speedster during the wartime. I really miss those days, talking with people that had been there, done that. They told me this. Some old model T that hadn't been run if five or more years was the only thing they could get. But they wanted a bit more flash than that! So a simple speedster is what they built. If they didn't need to give their couple gallons of rationed gasoline to family that really needed it? They would burn a gallon or two terrorizing the roads outside of town!
Early 1970s, my first model T speedster. I drove that thing almost everywhere! So many people came up to me in parking lots and told me their stories, the one THEY built, and the fun they had with it!
Now, sometimes I tell their stories for them.

[Norman Kling]

It is a beautiful car. Don't be concerned whether or not it is a 1913. Henry Ford did not build a speedster. Any speedster is a custom built car and most are a combination of parts some are T and others are not. In our club, if the car has a T block it is considered a Model T. If the car had a different type engine, it would not be considered a T. You have a beautiful car and one to be proud of. Only thing you need to find out is what each of the various parts actually is so that if you need to do work on the car, you will know what parts to look for.
Norm

[Catbird]

Norman, I like your answer. Trying to find part date. I have an engine block number 593659. Seems it is a 1914. But another person said it is a 1915. The seller put a really pretty number on the radiator, saying 1913. But it seems like those years seem very similar (I think). Most part of tinkering with being a detective!

I'll do my best to cogitate this out.

[TRDxB2]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion
For example : the Model T Ford Club of America states in its Encyclopedia https://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/sernos.htm
ENGINE SERIAL NUMBERS
The engine number was also the serial number of the car. Engines were numbered when they were completed, and for the most part went into a chassis within a day or so. However, some engines were assembled and numbered at branch assembly plants. Highland Park would ship a block of engine-number records to an assembly plant and these engines might be made weeks or months afterwards. Consequently, engine numbers can only be used to date the "engine" NOT the car.
--
On the other hand for those that wish to describe there' Model T as "as it came off the assembly line" then a proper engine number is required to support its description. Many Model T's have been serviced over their life time and unless some specific service records were documented over its life, it would be impossible to prove or disprove that every part was true to its birth. Model T's are what they are to the observer, and that will always be true.
--
Origin of the term "speedster" https://www.classicspeedsters.com/blog/ ... -speedster
Speedster is an American term that describes a car whose earliest conception was like that of a horse-driven buckboard or buggy – small, light, open, and fast. Where it differed from the buckboard and buggy, aside from being horseless, was its purpose-built nature: to have open air fun and adventure on the roads. It’s hard to pinpoint who first coined the term “speedster” or ascribed it to a moving vehicle. However, by 1905 that term had found its way into the vernacular, as a few automobiles were being named “gentlemen’s speedsters.” An example is J. Walter Christie’s 1906 street model.
The term itself described a light, open car that was built for speed and adventure. Having fun at the beginning of the twentieth century in one of these often meant navigating rutted dirt roads over hill and dale, especially if one traveled outside the city limits. Minimalist bucket seats with no seatbelts were bolted onto an open platform structure. Leaf springs with no shock absorbers. Bicycle tires and iffy rear brakes. No protective bodywork aft of the dash cowl. This car shouted adventure!
“Speedster” appears to have been a slang term of the era, referring generally to something going fast, and so the name was soon applied to this new type of motor car whose main goal was to carry one or two adventurers on their way to glory or just plain fun.
--
As noted above by several members. The Ford Motor Company never formally made a Model T model called a "Speedster"
However Henry Ford did https://www.classicspeedsters.com/blog/ ... dster-pt-1

[TXGOAT2]

I had a "naked" 1947 Buick. Everything the car needed to run, except for a gas tank and seat and a small bracket for the gas pedal, was already attached to the chassis. I rigged up a gas tank from an Oliver Row Crop tractor and an old bucket seat. It ran very well with its Fireball Eight and 3 on the tree. No floorboard or any other sheet metal, and none needed.