MTFCA Forum

Ha! I put such little gas in Rattles to do a test run that I ran out of gas going up hill and that was in a 1926. Luckly a neighbor gave me a pull for the few hundred feet I had to go.

I haven't done it, but when I was a boy, I saw at least one car backing up a hill. Fortunately, there is a gas station in town just before the steepest hill I need to climb to get home, so If it is below half tank, I top off.
Norm

Since I own a 26, it's a non issue. However, as a passenger in a TT at one time, we had the seat lifted up, and the cap off the fuel tank with me pressurising it with my mouth, as the driver got it up a hill.

Never done it. First, I keep my tank with plenty of fuel anyway. Second, on a week tour back in '16 which did have reasonable hills, when I pulled in at the gas station to refuel for the next day at the end of that days tour, Clara had exactly ONE gallon left in her! And just came off a decent hill not more than 15 minutes prior to that. So.....

One time with my 25 touring. It was actually a bit tricky because my Rocky Mtn brakes didn't want to hold as I backed down to a driveway to turn around. I learned from the experience - once was enough.

Grandpa used to say "It costs less to fill a tank when its half empty than when its completely empty"

Only unplanetary people back up hills in a Model T.

I carry a second gas cap which has been fitted with a tire stem. The only time I have ever had to use it was on Stoney Pass near the headwaters of the Rio Grande a few miles outside of Silverton, CO, and that was on a full tank of gas (it was a STEEP mountain road). When the engine coughed and died, I got out the second cap and my tire pump. Put on the second cap, and put about 2 lbs of pressure in the tank. You only need a pound or two of air pressure to force the fuel up to the carburetor. Any more pressure than that and the pressure overcomes the float needle and floods the carburetor. Started the car and drove up to the top of the pass (with low pedal, low Ruckstell, and 4-1 gears).

Respectfully Submitted,

Trent Boggess

On our trip across the USA in 2011 we were driving down the west coast and about mid morning and stopped in a small town. We were approached by a guy who went on to tell us how he had found a Model T years before in a barn and had sold it for a big profit.
He then asked where we had driven from. My wife said from the town north that morning but we had driven the last few months from Richmond Indiana.
His reply was "what, how did you drive over the Rockies all that way in reverse"
Seems some people believe any hill requires a Model T to do it in reverse.

Circa 1908 my wife's Great Grandfather, Roland E Bruner Sr., purchased and developed what is now known as Missouri's Roaring River State Park. After service in WWI, his son Roland E Bruner Jr., supervised the construction and management of the park. The challenges were immense and the term "remote" understates the actual nature of the locale. Not one for horses, he kept always at the ready his trusty Model T truck (TT?). His duties required him to traverse some of the hilliest terrain in the state. I first heard of the odd "reverse" technique at least 50 years ago from my wife's Grandmother. She recalled it from the earliest days of their marriage. It seems her husband frequently drove his truck in reverse climbing steep hills. "Roland always did the most peculiar things." she'd often say shaking her head. I heard the story many times and never could understand why when climbing an incline reverse was any better than foreward but passed it off as a "gearing" thing. Many years later I became a T owner and it became very apparent why. I wish the old lady was still alive so I could explain it to her but I'm sure her husband has already beaten me to the punch.

Yes I have. We were on a tour about and in the late afternoon about 10 miles from the hotel. I had gas in my trailer and enough to return, or so I thought. We did not know of the dirt road and steep hill between us and the motel. A '15 roadster ran out of gas about 200 feet before the rest of the hill. He was towed to the top and had enough gas to make it to the motel. My carb ran dry in my '14 touring about 200 yards from the top of the last hill, so I made a quick U turn and backed up the hill. I then made it back to my trailer where my reserve gas was waiting. Reverse is a lower gear than low band so steering was fine.
Don

4th of July Parade in Home, WA - follows the waterfront to the last block then "up the hill" - Centerdoor had 1/2 tank of gas and I made it 3/4 way up the hill before she started sputtering - rolled down backwards to the next block, pulled back out and went up to the top in reverse. Last year - same parade route, same car with near 1/2 tank BUT I installed one of Scott Conger's "improved" NH needle & seat - sailed all the way up going forward up & over the top !

It's worth noting that the maximum available fuel delivery rate will diminish as the fuel level diminishes, or as the carburetor becomes higher relative to the tank on uphill slopes. The high flow needle and seat would offset that problem, within limits, and allow full power for hill climbing with less fuel in the tank or when operating on a steeper slope. Of course, if the carburetor is higher than the fuel in the tank for more than a brief time, the car will falter or stop, regardless of the needle and seat. I'd think the high flow needle and seat would be a good choice on any T with an underseat tank, and more especially so in hilly country.

From talking to my family that drove a T until well after WW2, there were two reasons
for backing up The Big Hill.
1) Fuel delivery as discussed above with an under seat tank.
2) Condition of the bands. With the muddy roads and heavy clay in our area
in Northern Alberta (no gravel except major roads) there was a lot of low pedal
driving when plowing the ruts. The low band was often well worn or not set up.
Reverse band was often much fresher allowing the driver to back up
to make headway.
Harry Lillo
Calgary

Period photo, obviously backing up a hill in San Francisco. Modern wisdom in comments all agree that stock T brakes couldn't possibly hold that heavy sedan with its full load of people if it were descending the hill.

I think you could descend the hill, assuming the car is in good shape, by using low from the very top, and being prepared to call on reverse if needed. If the bricks were worn to a polish, you might not have enough traction to use all the available braking. If the bricks were worn and wet, you'd probably slide to the bottom, no matter what you did, or be unable to go up the hill in any gear. Attaching a couple of 75 lb leather sacks full of sand to the spare tire carrier with 5 foot ropes before starting down the hill might be a good idea.

Never have had to. I have a Muncie 3 speed with reverse. 7 forward gears and 5 reverse. I bet it will really go in reverse if you could hang onto it. T reverse is fast enough for me. Never tried the others.

You've got the gears ... all you need now is an all-new Acme Ford T Caster Reversing Radius Rod Socket with handy dashboard control and super wide angle rear view mirror! Installs in 5 minutes flat! Never needs adjusting! (Not for racing... check local laws)

This accessory was supposed to be safety accessory both going forward & especially in reverse

No, I don’t back up hills. Back in ‘76 at the Colorado Centennial I drove my ‘23 touring - forward - up a hill NW of Colorado Springs called Pikes something-or-other. With a Ruckstell of course. Started with a tankfull right up under the gascap and refilled about halfway up.

I have backed up hills. The last day of the Rochester tour was short so I didn't fill up.started coughing 1/2 way up a long hill. At the top steam out the radiator and heavy breathing from the crankcase.
Also at the 100 year party a new driver had fried his low band, a spot in the woods on a narrow horse trail. I drove his car maybe 2 miles in reverse to the next parking lot.
My advice is go slow and grab hold of the wheel firmly as it will start whipping.

When you back up, the caster and toe-in angles in are reversed. The steering wheel gets easier to turn, and it will tend to go to lock rather than go to center. This can be very dangerous. Avoid backing up, and if you must back up, keep both hands on the wheel with a firm grip and go very slowly. Avoid potholes and ruts, and avoid sharp turns, so far as is possible. Besides the steering angle issues, a Model T has very "fast" steering, which will allow the car to go out of control very quickly when backing up if the driver allows it. A car with worn steering parts would require even more caution to back up safely. It's a good idea to practice backing up in a safe area, like an empty lot, to get the feel of how the car behaves when backing up. Go slow, and pay attention. It's a car, not a horse, and it will only do what you tell it to. It has no mind of its own, and absolutely no instinct for self-preservation. You must think for it.

I have mentioned before about backing the Speedster over Jackson pass. Filling the tank in the last town would have prevented this. I provided this pic to show what grade can be possible. You can imagine the difference between full and empty. At the time, we had the gas tank under rear seats, so it was even more of a climb for the fuel. Steering is definitely a challenge. Joy walked ahead to warn of oncoming traffic from around corners. A bus load of tourists stopped to enjoy the spectacle. As it leveled out, I turned and continued up driving forward but wasn't able to stop to let joy jump in. She walked the last two miles to meet us at the top. I wouldn't want to do it again, but it did get us over the top.
Rich

I was always under the impression when asked by a layman that they where under the impression that a model T had to back up hills
because they didn't have enough power in low to make it up a steep hill.
Craig.

"The only difference between death & taxes is that death doesn't get worse every time Congress meets" - Will Rodgers

There's enough power to make about any hill, if the car is in good shape and not overloaded. There is a hill out of Jacksboro that Ts often had to back up if they didn't have a full tank of gas. The "new" road is a longer grade, but not as steep. Another infamous hill is near Ranger, Texas. It has recently been rebuilt to make it "safer". I've been down it on the access road in my T, but not up it.

My grandfather told the story of crossing the Mississippi river on a ferry and have a man drive off in his T to have the car stall half way up the hill. He rolled back to the landing, restarted the engine and made a second try, also stalling half way up the hill. For try number three someone told him to turn around, he turned around and backed up the hill. This would have been about 1930, as my grandfather would drive from Oklahoma to Tennessee to visit his relatives who had moved back there a few years before.