MTFCA Forum

Posted: **Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:42 pm**

I received a new radiator for my T and installed it. I have only driven car since maybe 30 miles or so. Recently I was looking under the hood on left side and discovered the overflow tube broke loose and just hanging from the tank on top. Also the old radiator had a couple ears toward the top where a couple screws went though the shell to support it. Those ears were not on the new radiator and was wondering if Brass Works do not make them or think they are unnecessary or what. Can someone advise me on this please? Thank you!

Posted: **Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:58 pm**

Harvey,
I cannot attest to the overflow tube, mine is still attached after 1,500 miles, but when I got my radiator from them, the ears you refer to came in a small bag, and needed to be pop riveted in place. They said it was because of variations in the radiator shroud, so we can install them where we need.

-Joshua

Posted: **Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:59 pm**

Ears and screws? Is your car a 1926/'27?

Posted: **Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:05 pm**

My car is a 24 touring

Posted: **Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:06 pm**

Wayne,
Based on his profile he as a 1924 touring, and I have a late 23 touring, model year 1924. My original radiator had little "ears" on the right and left side of the radiator core, and the radiator shell was attached to the vertical sides of the radiator via one screw on each side. The hood welt then covered the screw. I presume these are the ears he is talking about, as they came separate on my round tube brassworks radiator.

Posted: **Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:09 pm**

Harvey, are you referring to these?

Posted: **Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:15 pm**

Maybe I tossed them accidentally or they were not included with the radiator. Usually I take care to see if I have everything I need to get the job done. Today I took my radiator to a shop and got the overflow tube welded on solid. One would think that paying $1000 for a radiator, it would be done right. Back in the day in a Sears
& Roebuck catalog, this radiator cost under $7.00. Yes those are what I need. I will have to order them. Thank you!!

Posted: **Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:18 pm**

Another thing I noticed was it appeared that the radiator neck was right up against the shell, but I suppose that is because I don’t have the sides fastened to those ears yet.

Posted: **Thu Jan 26, 2023 10:36 pm**

It is not unusual for the neck to be out of line. It can be shifted and be re-soldered in the correct place. Use your shell as a guide.

Allan from down under.

Posted: **Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:49 am**

Harvey Bergstrom wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:42 pm
I received a new radiator for my T and installed it. I have only driven car since maybe 30 miles or so. Recently I was looking under the hood on left side and discovered the overflow tube broke loose and just hanging from the tank on top. Also the old radiator had a couple ears toward the top where a couple screws went though the shell to support it. Those ears were not on the new radiator and was wondering if Brass Works do not make them or think they are unnecessary or what. Can someone advise me on this please? Thank you!

I may be overlooking the obvious here, so please forgive me but what did Lee say about your concerns when you asked him first?

Posted: **Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:57 am**

Please tell me, for the good of the hobby, that Brass Works was contacted before this post was created.

Posted: **Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:27 am**

I really do think it’s best that if you buy a new expensive item from a company that makes Model T parts and you believe there are issues with it. DONT come on the forum and start asking the forum about it and comparing notes!
CALL or CONTACT the company FIRST and talk to them about it FIRST!

REMEMBER Model T’s are a limited market and if we have suppliers making the parts give them a break to a point. Yes they can make mistakes but if you think you can make them better start a business to make T parts and the hobby might grow some more.

Posted: **Fri Jan 27, 2023 10:52 am**

The radiator has to be correctly attached to the frame mounting points with the correct hardware and the stay rod must be correctly adjusted to prevent problems. It is important that the frame crossmember not be distorted. The mounting bolts must not be overtightened. Hoses should not be very old and stiff.

Posted: **Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:22 am**

Ears? My Bergs (or original 17 radiator for that matter) did not have the ears you're talking about. The radiator attaches to the frame and the rod from the firewall. The shroud slips over the neck and attaches only to the frame.

Posted: **Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:01 pm**

Harvey - as mentioned above, the Brassworks radiator for my ‘26 came with the small bag with the ears, rivets and radiator petcock. The ears will help you adjust the radiator shell and the neck. I used my old radiator and ears as a starting point to measure placement for riveting the ears on the new one.

Posted: **Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:17 pm**

I am looking for a pair of the shell mounting ears (just the brackets, not an entire radiator), and called Brassworks a month or two ago.

They told me they are out of them. Perhaps they are reserving what they have to be included with new radiators, or maybe they are completely out and can't provide them at all, but they wouldn't sell me any.

They used to sell pairs of brackets with all hardware for $9.99 on their website, but now the kit does not come up in their product listings, although you can still find it thru google searching.

My car has what I think is a Brassworks radiator installed several years ago, the brackets are missing. I am pretty sure the radiator passed thru a couple of different owners before it found its way onto my car so in all likelihood was not a vendor issue. I may just need to get the measurements off of somebody else's car and make new ones.

Posted: **Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:10 pm**

Oldav8tor wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:22 am
Ears? My Bergs (or original 17 radiator for that matter) did not have the ears you're talking about. The radiator attaches to the frame and the rod from the firewall. The shroud slips over the neck and attaches only to the frame.

My Berg’s rad from 2009 had ears for attaching the shroud.

Posted: **Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:21 pm**

Will_Vanderburg wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 27, 2023 3:10 pm

Oldav8tor wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:22 am
Ears? My Bergs (or original 17 radiator for that matter) did not have the ears you're talking about. The radiator attaches to the frame and the rod from the firewall. The shroud slips over the neck and attaches only to the frame.

My Berg’s rad from 2009 had ears for attaching the shroud.

1917 has the short radiator, no ears is correct. The tall radiator (1924?-1927) has the ears.

The tall radiator must be a bit more top-heavy, they added extra brackets so the radiator wouldn't work fore-aft against the shroud and fracture the neck.

Posted: **Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:06 pm**

John, I had issues with a Brassworks radiator which I purchased through a local supplier here in Australia. The radiator neck was installed in the wrong place, jamming the neck against the hole in the shell with the shell only half way down the neck. I contacted Brassworks about the problem first, only to be told it can't be because they check each radiator with a shell. Three other shells I had on hand showed the same fit. I contacted my supplier who told me to get it fixed and let him know about it. He footed the $50 bill, as our consumer law demands. How he got on with recompense from Brassworks I don't know.The local radiator shop moved the neck forward just a tad over 1/8" before the shell would fit.
A recent thread about a bent Scat crankshaft followed the same route. Contact with the manufacturer was ignored. To their credit, Lang's as the supplier stepped in to resolve the matter, just like my radiator supplier did. Some dealers/suppliers/manufacturers do it well. Others not so. Calling out bad service is in turn a service to others.
Allan from down under.

Posted: **Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:39 pm**

In response to John Kuehn’s post about coming on the forum with a problem with my new radiator missing the top mounting ears for the shell, I have an apology in order.
You are right. I should have contacted Brass Works first before I came on the forum with my complaint. I am truly sorry if I offended anyone. Turns out, I misplaced the brackets with the screws which I need and found them today. I think I will have to take my radiator to a shop and have the neck moved ahead a little but that is no big deal. I would imagine the shell cannot rub the tank anywhere lest a hole gets worn in the tank and starts a leak. Again please accept my apology. I greatly appreciate all of the help with any questions I have and the great ideas that I can learn for this fun hobby of Model T’s.

Posted: **Wed Feb 01, 2023 6:44 pm**

Hi Harvey
I don’t think any apology is really necessary. I’ve had a T axle and a wiring block issue with a parts supplier and they were kind enough to replace an axle and a wiring block. The issue with the parts was from the vendors who made the parts and they were glad that I had called them about it.
I guess the point I was trying to make is the small T business’s and shops that the T parts houses deal with are not multimillion dollar operations like the automotive corporations are.

T’s are a very small market in this country and are in business because of hobbyist like us. And the majority of them do the best they can in my opinion. Most know they need to be accurate as they can in making the reproduction parts. The ones that do offer a good product and will stay in business as long as their parts sell.

Posted: **Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:04 am**

Hi John,
You are so right. We all have to be thankful that we have the parts availability for our great hobby of Ts. I am learning from experience that patience is absolutely necessary in all that we do with our projects. I do have highest regards for all of the venders I’ve dealt with.

Posted: **Mon Feb 06, 2023 8:16 am**

To end my story about my new radiator, after a quick repair at the radiator shop, it is back in my T and fits great. I’m confidant I will drive many miles and years trouble free. Thanks guys!

Harvey Bergstrom

Posted: **Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:40 am**

Allan wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:06 pm
John, I had issues with a Brassworks radiator which I purchased through a local supplier here in Australia. The radiator neck was installed in the wrong place, jamming the neck against the hole in the shell with the shell only half way down the neck. I contacted Brassworks about the problem first, only to be told it can't be because they check each radiator with a shell. Three other shells I had on hand showed the same fit. I contacted my supplier who told me to get it fixed and let him know about it. He footed the $50 bill, as our consumer law demands. How he got on with recompense from Brassworks I don't know.The local radiator shop moved the neck forward just a tad over 1/8" before the shell would fit.
A recent thread about a bent Scat crankshaft followed the same route. Contact with the manufacturer was ignored. To their credit, Lang's as the supplier stepped in to resolve the matter, just like my radiator supplier did. Some dealers/suppliers/manufacturers do it well. Others not so. Calling out bad service is in turn a service to others.
Allan from down under.

Allan....I wonder if maybe that radiator was the "special design" kind that Brassworks also makes...called an alternative shell neck hole placement....just sayin!

Posted: **Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:09 am**

This company has gone downhill since the new owner obtained it from Greg Goveia. All I have ever asked is the radiators to be made as good as Ford made them. Even Greg cut some corners, mainly riveting the side panels to the top tank. Solder doesn't do a good enough job. The radiators have to be able to flex with the frame. Granted, our roads today are superior to those in the twenties, but the quality does not have to go down!

Posted: **Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:55 am**

Well, that was helpful - not

You've bitched about them publicly and loudly for years on this forum, so not sure what the new owner has to do with it

I recall a time when there was a bunch of complaining by people about leaky float valves that looked like they were machined by beavers, but don't recall your ever having chimed in on that

Posted: **Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:30 pm**

...not sure what the new owner has to do with it

Much like folks griping about Mac's since Ecklers entered the picture. Nope. I crossed them off my list thirty years ago, long before the Ecklers deal.

Posted: **Mon Feb 06, 2023 1:37 pm**

Original Smith has brought out some very good practical points...... More truthful than your quote on quote " bitching " comments Scott Conger .

Posted: **Mon Feb 06, 2023 2:01 pm**

Bob

if you're unable to search the Forum, to see the veracity of my statement I'll be glad to help. Original has complained for years about this vendor and there is nothing untruthful about pointing that out.

Rather than drag this discussion farther into the mud, I'll simply post a single link (of many) to one of his many rants...a rant where he admits "I've raked them over the coals on brass radiators, so now it's time for the black ones": http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/82 ... 1530112403

Notably, the original poster solved his own problem by finding parts he'd lost and ultimately has absolutely no gripe with this vendor...and yet there are always guys ready to pile on in spite of that.

Posted: **Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:51 pm**

Scott, if you re-read Dan McEchern's post in the link you posted, he hits a few nails on the head. I was not so concerned about the miss-fit of my radiator neck. That was an easy fix. My concern was with the reaction from the maker when I reported the problem, absolute denial! It is how we are treated when registering justified concerns that causes the angst. Most makers/vendors offer excellent after sales service/responses. Some don't. When you are on the receiving end of such off handedness, it makes it difficult not to respond in the negative.

Allan from down under.

Posted: **Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:18 pm**

I'm still working on my perpetual project; a '23 runabout that I started maybe a dozen years ago

I had an unrestored, unaltered FORD issued radiator that it came with, and 3 unrestored, unaltered Ford issued radiator surrounds...2 were pretty good and one needed work.

Only 1 surround fit. And as luck would have it, it was the one that needed work (and it was the one that came originally on that radiator). This car just won't give me a break. I'd like to complain to the OEM, but I just dealt with it. This is the one and only time I will relay this story to anyone, because ultimately no one but me really cares.

Go figure.

Posted: **Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:40 pm**

I wonder how uniform the original radiators were, and for that matter, how uniform the shells were.

Posted: **Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:49 pm**

Pat, that's a good question, but regardless, the original buyer better find all the faults that they needed to have remedied pretty darn quickly, as the New Car Guarantee was pretty flimsy.

Credit to Dan Treace and others:

Of course, no one ever needed an original radiator repaired either, because they were just so darn well built.

: new radiator picture.jpg (60.12 KiB) Viewed 6780 times

Posted: **Mon Feb 06, 2023 10:03 pm**

I'm still working on my perpetual project; a '23 runabout that I started maybe a dozen years ago

So I'm not the only one. That makes me feel a little better about my long-term projects.

Posted: **Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:57 pm**

Show me a Model T or Model A where something fits right. I think, just like people, they sag with age. NOS doesn’t fit half the time either. You need to have some skills and adapt. Usually the radiator doesn’t fit because the frame is spread or twisted or anything and everything 100 years brings.

Posted: **Tue Feb 07, 2023 9:17 am**

Tx goat makes a “common sense” observation about how uniform T radiators and for that matter the rest of the cars and parts actually were.
The idea that all of the parts and cars were exactly alike are really “0ver thinking” how it really was. Some folks keep seeing the forest instead of the individual trees.

Posted: **Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:54 pm**

I can fully understand that the hurly burly of the production line would have resulted in some really poor fit of parts of varying precision. However, when a part was so out of spec that it could not be fitted at all, I am sure an alternative was found. Such parts may have been re-jigged for recovery or just discarded. A radiator shell may have been discarded, a radiator assembly more likely re-jigged which is what I had to do.

Allan from down under.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 4:19 pm**

Original Smith wrote: ↑
Mon Feb 06, 2023 11:09 am
This company has gone downhill since the new owner obtained it from Greg Goveia. All I have ever asked is the radiators to be made as good as Ford made them. Even Greg cut some corners, mainly riveting the side panels to the top tank. Solder doesn't do a good enough job. The radiators have to be able to flex with the frame. Granted, our roads today are superior to those in the twenties, but the quality does not have to go down!

Larry - Sorry I am late to the party (again) on this February post. You have your dates confused. Greg Gouveia sold the company to Bill Ingalls around 1994. Bill offered me a job and I instead bought the company in 2006. I met and know Greg. Greg complained about Bill to me and I fully expect he complained about me to other people. It's sad but complaining is a pass-time for some. Incidentally, the company history was discussed in the HCCA tour that you attended in October. I learned afterwards that you were in the building when other attendees came to apologize on your behalf for making disparaging comments in the back corner. I regret you did not fully participate or at least say hello because we all had a good time. It's water under the bridge but your comments, opinions and feelings have been noted. I hope one day you find the joy in the hobby that other forum participants have. God Bless.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 4:42 pm**

Lee

thank you for keeping this company viable and for the products you supply to the Old Car hobby. I myself look forward to receiving one of your products in the coming months as ordered through one of the suppliers who do business directly with you.

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 7:36 pm**

Lee,
I also Thank You for your contributions to our hobby.
You shipped my radiator earlier in April and I look forward to
installing and running the super cooler in my depot hack
which is my favorite touring T.
Without dedicated individuals like you we would be patching up
old Original radiators and complaining about them.
Harry Lillo
Calgary

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 10:01 pm**

Check the box and packing your radiator came in. My Brassworks radiator came with those two shell securement brackets separate from the radiator. I guess they come separately in case you have an aftermarket shell that does not line up with the normal location of the brackets, you can mount them where you want. Jim Patrick

Posted: **Fri Apr 14, 2023 10:21 pm**

Lee,

My new radiator is amazing. My overheating issues are gone. I would buy again in a heartbeat.

Posted: **Sat Apr 15, 2023 12:31 am**

Harvey Bergstrom wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:39 pm
In response to John Kuehn’s post about coming on the forum with a problem with my new radiator missing the top mounting ears for the shell, I have an apology in order.
You are right. I should have contacted Brass Works first before I came on the forum with my complaint. I am truly sorry if I offended anyone. Turns out, I misplaced the brackets with the screws which I need and found them today. I think I will have to take my radiator to a shop and have the neck moved ahead a little but that is no big deal. I would imagine the shell cannot rub the tank anywhere lest a hole gets worn in the tank and starts a leak. Again please accept my apology. I greatly appreciate all of the help with any questions I have and the great ideas that I can learn for this fun hobby of Model T’s.

I just installed my 26-27 high style brass works radiator and don’t have the mounts either, I didn’t see anything in the box or packaging, do you know where you found them in the box? As luck would have it I just threw out the box and foam today. Just my luck!

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