LED light issues

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Matt in California
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LED light issues

Post by Matt in California » Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:41 pm

I decided that I wanted to give LED lights a try. I purchased 5-30 volts non-polarized bulbs. When they arrived I installed the first bulb and it light up nicely, but when I installed both neither worked. I tried again with one LED and one incandescent and it worked. One incandescent alone also works...

So then to eliminate any type of wiring/battery issue I got a good battery and a wire and tested directly on top of the battery. Nothing.

Anyone have any idea of what I could possibly be missing?

Matt


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Re: LED light issues

Post by mtntee20 » Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:03 am

Matt,

LEDs are polarity specific, as they have a positive and a negative contact. Most modern light bulbs have a diode bridge included in the bulb so the connected polarity will not affect the LED operation. Meaning, the "bulb" is NOT polarity specific even though the LED IS.

Having explained that, it would appear one of the bulbs is having a polarity problem. Either the bulb does not have the diode bridge or one/some of the diodes may have failed or are installed incorrectly. I recommend starting with one bulb, test it to ensure it works. Then, swap bulbs to see if the other one works. If so, it would appear there may be a wiring problem but, if the diode bridges are working properly, it shouldn't matter. IF the second bulb doesn't work, then you know where the problem is. Second, when two are installed and one is not working, just swap the bulb places and see if they work then.

Still having problems; contact the seller for replacement or refund and try a different bulb or bulbs and/or a different brand.

I have LEDs in 5 lights on our Milk Truck with three of them being double filament bulbs for running and brake lights. They all work together perfectly.

Good Luck,


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Re: LED light issues

Post by Sarikatime » Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:23 am

Each led bulb needs a resister to work. Call the seller for advice on proper installation.

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Re: LED light issues

Post by jsaylor » Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:10 pm

Sarikatime wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:23 am
Each led bulb needs a resister to work. Call the seller for advice on proper installation.
Load Resistor is only needed when used as a turn signal with a bi-metal flasher.

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Re: LED light issues

Post by BE_ZERO_BE » Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:01 pm

As stated, the LED bulbs are non-polarized.
This means they will work with positive or negative ground.
They don't care about polarity by design.

I hade an issue of "cross-talk" between my LED brake lights.
I solved it by putting a diode in series with each bulb.
Don't ask me why - it just worked.
Maybe that is a solution for this.
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Re: LED light issues

Post by Luke » Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:16 pm

Matt,

It would be useful to have a little more information; are these headlamps, or tail-lights for example, and are there also other lamps in the circuit at the same time? Is this a straightforward 6V or 12V battery system, or is it a magneto-lit T?

From a general fault-finding perspective I'd first start with all lamps out of the circuit, check that your wiring and connections are in good order, and that polarities are correct. The latter may be quite important if you're talking headlamps, each lamp will need to be doing the same thing as the other, thus the high/low switching and connection to the lamps must be the same.

If it's a magneto-lit T then that could be a bit more interesting, I'll await your response before going on about how to deal with such a beast :)

Luke.

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Re: LED light issues

Post by TRDxB2 » Sat Feb 04, 2023 3:57 pm

Matt in California wrote:
Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:41 pm
I decided that I wanted to give LED lights a try. I purchased 5-30 volts non-polarized bulbs. When they arrived I installed the first bulb and it light up nicely, but when I installed both neither worked. I tried again with one LED and one incandescent and it worked. One incandescent alone also works...

So then to eliminate any type of wiring/battery issue I got a good battery and a wire and tested directly on top of the battery. Nothing.

Anyone have any idea of what I could possibly be missing?

Matt
I'm guessing this is the bulb in reference https://www.ledlight.com/led-headlight- ... rized.aspx
led bulb.png
For positive ground or negative ground. 5 to 30 Volt wide voltage. Long life up to 30,000 hours. Made with 2525 LED's for long life. Dual filament up to 1200 Lumen low beam. Works both in a socket that is wired for a single filament and works in a ba15d socket that is wired for dual filament. Up to 1800 Lumen high beam. The base is BA15D the diameter is 15mm with two contacts on the bottom and parallel bayonets.
--
--
I assume that you tested each individually and they worked.
What isn't at all clear is how you are hooking these up. The wiring diagram shows that they are hooked up in parallel so each bulb is independent of the other. If both bulbs are good and work on one side and not the other then there is an issue on the bad side (ground, socket and/or wire connection). Something else too, even though they are non-polarized, you might try reversing they way you inserted the bulb that doesn't light in its socket. The reason for this is that even tough they are nob-polarized (for voltage) they are dual filament so both need to be oriented properly in their respective sockets for your High/Low beam to work equally
1926-1927-model-t-ford-wiring-diagram-p1.jpg
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Re: LED light issues

Post by Matt in California » Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:54 pm

I appreciate all the responses! I will try to be clear as possible to clarify what I am experiencing.

Set-up:
-Yes, These are the headlight bulbs from LEDLight.com
-The headlight bulbs are connected in parallel on 12vdc battery.
-I tested and get 12vdc at bulb.

Test 1: Remove one incandescent bulb and replace with LED bulb. Single LED lamp works fine.

Test 2: Two LED lamps. Neither light up.

Test 3: Remove one LED lamp. Other LED lamp does not turn on.

Test 4: Replace one bulb with incandescent that has one filament burned out. LED lamp does not turn on.

Test 5: Connect one LED directly to battery with wire. LED lamp does not light up.

I hope this clarifies things.

Matt


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Re: LED light issues

Post by mtntee20 » Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:56 pm

Matt

Do both LED lights work when individually tested with 12v?

Are you still getting 12v at both sockets?

Do the standard bulbs still work as they did before you started with the LEDs?

IF one worked to begin with and does not work now, sounds like a power supply issue in wiring, switch, fuse, battery, or battery connections.

If one still works, just swap the led bulbs in the same socket to see if they both work in one socket.

If they both work in the one socket, do the same test in the other socket. Maybe this will help isolate the problem.

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Re: LED light issues

Post by TRDxB2 » Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:30 pm

Matt in California wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:54 pm
I appreciate all the responses! I will try to be clear as possible to clarify what I am experiencing.

Set-up:
-Yes, These are the headlight bulbs from LEDLight.com
-The headlight bulbs are connected in parallel on 12vdc battery.
-I tested and get 12vdc at bulb.

Test 1: Remove one incandescent bulb and replace with LED bulb. Single LED lamp works fine.

Test 2: Two LED lamps. Neither light up.

Test 3: Remove one LED lamp. Other LED lamp does not turn on.

Test 4: Replace one bulb with incandescent that has one filament burned out. LED lamp does not turn on.

Test 5: Connect one LED directly to battery with wire. LED lamp does not light up.

I hope this clarifies things.

Matt
if you connected one of the LED bulbs directly to the battery and it doesn’t lit up. i’d say it’s burnt out
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Re: LED light issues

Post by Luke » Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:35 pm

Matt,

Thanks for the more detailed description, that's useful.

Without being on site to check I suspect you'll find an earth (or lack of!) is likely at the root of the problem. The other alternative is that your wiring isn't correct.

If you connect a wire between -ve on the battery, then directly to the headlamp socket surround (ie. where the earth connection should be), what happens?

Luke.

Tailpiece: when you are fault-finding bear in mind that incandescent bulbs have a very low resistance relative to a LED. As a LED doesn't require anywhere near the same current to light, one of the incandescent bulbs could well supply the requisite 'supply' path for the other LED in the cct (when it's not getting it from the correct place).

Thus a broken or misplaced connection is pretty much the only answer.


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Re: LED light issues

Post by tdump » Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:31 pm

I am not a rocket scientist and I have not even had a chance to play 1 on tv but what I remember from my college days and getting my degree in electronics, LED means Light Emitting Diode. Diodes won't let current go thru but 1 way unless they are damaged.so how on earth did they ever fix it so it could light up either way?
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Re: LED light issues

Post by BE_ZERO_BE » Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:42 pm

Mack,

These "non-polarized" LED assemblies have an internal bridge rectifier inline with the power leads.
Thus, the LEDs will always see the correct polarity.
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Re: LED light issues

Post by TRDxB2 » Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:27 pm

Matt in California wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:54 pm
I appreciate all the responses! I will try to be clear as possible to clarify what I am experiencing.

Set-up:
-Yes, These are the headlight bulbs from LEDLight.com
-The headlight bulbs are connected in parallel on 12vdc battery.
-I tested and get 12vdc at bulb.

Test 1: Remove one incandescent bulb and replace with LED bulb. Single LED lamp works fine.

Test 2: Two LED lamps. Neither light up.

Test 3: Remove one LED lamp. Other LED lamp does not turn on.

Test 4: Replace one bulb with incandescent that has one filament burned out. LED lamp does not turn on.

Test 5: Connected one LED directly to battery with wire. LED lamp does not light up.


I hope this clarifies things.

Matt
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Re: LED light issues

Post by Luke » Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:46 pm

TRDxB2 wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:27 pm
Doesn't this matter
Frank

Just to clarify my earlier response in relation to your comment:

I agree it would matter (a lot !) if it was simple matter of a LED put across a known good battery not lighting up.

However as Matt has also said the LED will work ok with an incandescent bulb connected it suggested to me that (a) the LED was ok and (b) that what he actually did was run a wire from the battery +ve to one of the socket wires/connectors on the headlamp assy.

My assumption would well be wrong of course! I guess it's one of the problems of trying to fault find at a distance, and with intermittent slow serial communication, but regardless it will be interesting to see the result.

Luke.

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Re: LED light issues

Post by Matt in California » Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:34 am

TRDxB2 wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:30 pm
Matt in California wrote:
Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:54 pm

Test 1: Remove one incandescent bulb and replace with LED bulb. Single LED lamp works fine.
...
Test 5: Connect one LED directly to battery with wire. LED lamp does not light up.
...
if you connected one of the LED bulbs directly to the battery and it doesn’t lit up. i’d say it’s burnt out
Please note in Test 1 the LED lamp is working fine! If the LED never lite up I would not be so bewildered.

I will try some more things based on suggestions I see here.

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Re: LED light issues

Post by Susanne » Sun Feb 05, 2023 6:52 am

I may not be seeing the whole picture, but -

Testing direct to battery (wire to tip to shell (or other tip) to battery) if one of the LED bulbs is NOT working when hooked directly to battery the LED bulbis at fault. If said bulb doesn't work one way but then does work the other, the internal rectifier bridge in the bulb is faulty and not allowing current to pass. IF you have a series circuit (common on early electric lighting) then the faulty bulb is not allowing the ground side of the good bulb to carry through to the ground on the other bulb.

This is a common problem on 15-18 T's when converted from mag lighting (OK, darking, if you know what I mean) to battery lighting... People change the electrical source wire from the mag post to the switch, leave the rest alone, and don't realize that if one bulb or its connector is bad, you now have the famous Ford Unlighting. I was playing at this before we moved, but I was considering using a single coaxial cable as a supply source, that way it still LOOKS like one wire is feeding everything but actually each lamp has its own power supply... and covertly grounding the shell of the bulb socket to, well, ground to complete each individual circuit.

But using an LED (even tho they say it doesn't matter) sometimes polarity DOES matter... if your bridge rectifier is broken or insallled wrong, then you have a traditional LED bulb - one direction it works, the other it's at best dark, at worst it sends up the square smoke ring of death.

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Re: LED light issues

Post by TRDxB2 » Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:01 pm

It would be better to address the leds by number to better understand which is which. Note that the directions for LEDs state "The led row furthest away from the base works better as the high beam. Please check the headlight to make sure both leds are illuminating when the high beam is selected. Just one row of leds on both sides light when low beam is selected" so this may or may not have something to do with the problem.
I diagrammed some tests. If one bulb does not light , reverse it in its socket. Your testing with an incandescent bulb is pointing to this as the possible problem. Since things are connected in parallel each bulb should be working independently of the other. If they were connected in series then as Susanne stated one would affect the other
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Re: LED light issues

Post by Allan » Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:17 pm

Matt, I think your T is just trying to tell you something. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Allan from down under.

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Re: LED light issues

Post by Matt in California » Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:40 pm

Allan wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 4:17 pm
Matt, I think your T is just trying to tell you something. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Allan from down under.
Allan,
Who says my T isn't broken :mrgreen:

Okay, I figured out my problem! And I don't feel like the sharpest pencil in the pack! I ordered the wrong bulb and didn't read clearly or understand what I purchased. Here is what I ordered:
https://www.ledlight.com/ba15d-led-head ... rized.aspx

When I saw Frank's post, I didn't notice the small, but important difference:
https://www.ledlight.com/led-headlight- ... rized.aspx

The price and image is the same... I assumed dual connectors on the bottom would mean dual filament. To get these working I figured out on my own as clearly stated in the instructions: "1142 Configuration meaning ground on one contact and 5 to 30V on the other contact." BTW if you are trying to figure out why it worked with the other headlight installed, the second filament of the incandescent headlight give a path back to ground.

When I went to make the order I was dizzy reading all the descriptions and restarted my cart more than once.

I appreciate everyone's' patience and insight! In the end the issue seems to be the nut behind the wheel.

Matt


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Re: LED light issues

Post by Luke » Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:17 am

Definitely what I'd call a misplaced connection ;-)

I should think it an easy mistake to make, good on you for 'fessing up and telling all here - it might save a few others the cost + annoyance 👍

Luke.

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Re: LED light issues

Post by TRDxB2 » Mon Feb 06, 2023 2:24 am

Matt, what your order, BA15D - 1142 Bulbs are referred to as Marine bulbs. Easy mistake to make.
BAyonet base: 15 millimeter diameter: Y offset pins (no Y = parallel pins) : Single Contact:Double contacts
Model T bases are either BA15S or BA15D. Currently many filament & LED bulbs for BA15s/d sockets are described as taillight, brake light bulbs and 1156 bulb. (1157 bulbs take the BAY15D socket). So that's one of the reasons why those bulbs aren't bright enough for use in Model T headlights.
6v 1158 filament bulbs are dual filament, consume about 3amps and not very bright.

Note the diagram below from a manufacturer is a bit confusing so I am added another further down in this posting
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Re: LED light issues

Post by jab35 » Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:35 am

Frank and others: Thanks for the information.

Frank, is the figure in your post from a bulb manufacturer? It shows pin arrangement, but the BA 15D base contact polarity must be a typo, I would expect base and pin contacts to be same polarity as the for the BAY 15D?

It's small things like this in what I assume are Chinese to English translated specifications that sometimes steer the buyer to the wrong conclusion/wrong purchase. Just a rant, YMMV, jb

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Re: LED light issues

Post by TRDxB2 » Mon Feb 06, 2023 12:12 pm

jab35 wrote:
Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:35 am
Frank and others: Thanks for the information.

Frank, is the figure in your post from a bulb manufacturer? It shows pin arrangement, but the BA 15D base contact polarity must be a typo, I would expect base and pin contacts to be same polarity as the for the BAY 15D?

It's small things like this in what I assume are Chinese to English translated specifications that sometimes steer the buyer to the wrong conclusion/wrong purchase. Just a rant, YMMV, jb
Yes the picture of the bulb bases above is from "a" manufacturer. It is unlikely case has a connection to one of the contacts on the bottom of the socket. Likely they artist was referencing the type bulb connections vs the socket. New BA15D sockets have just 2 contacts & its up to the type of bulb to decide its ground position (as you have found out). "Marine bulbs" or bulbs wired in series like Model-T's with a dimmer.

Let me know if this revision makes sense
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Re: LED light issues

Post by Novice » Tue Feb 07, 2023 1:34 am

Matt. I have tried the BA15D dual hi/lo led bulbs. I prefer the round type which is also dual beam and the beam puts out a even light. The BA15D beam is either C or U shaped depending on what headlight sockets are on the car. and it is too bright for on coming traffic. But would be great out in the boonies. Might work off your magneto connected in series since BA15D is ac/dc but no hi/lo. Good Luck
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Re: LED light issues

Post by jab35 » Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:16 am

Thanks, Frank:

Your edits/corrections make it all good. When I see an obvious error like this in a technical spec, I immediately wonder what other 'lies', intentional or not, are being told, and how many of them I've accepted as fact. The 'fact-checkers' on the forum have filled in gaps and corrected false information in many similar situations and I appreciate that. Best, jb

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