MTFCA Forum

We just bled the "Sure-Stop" disc brakes on my 1927 coupe. This was a first for my son and me. It went very well with some guidance over the phone from Birdhaven (Bill Devine). He has been very helpful with the brakes and other things involved with my coupe restoration.

The first four photos show "bench" bleeding the master cylinder. The first photo shows the reservoir being temporarily supported on a 2x4. The fourth photo shows my son activating the master cylinder. Bill said to disconnect the cylinder rod from the brake pedal so that there is full movement of the plunger.

The fifth photo shows the master cylinder as the disc calipers are being bled. There was some fluid leakage from the rear of the cylinder when the yellow plug (shown in the second photo) was removed and while the main hose was being attached. The leakage was minimal. I held my finger over the vent hole in reservoir cap so that probably helped.

I am impressed with the "Sure-Stop" brakes and am looking forward to using them.

I hope the above will be helpful to someone.

I own a 1926 Roadster with sure stop discs and they are wonderful. I still drive like I have NO brakes because of the small rear tire contact on the asphalt and no front brakes. BE CAREFUL OUT THERE! bobt

You are making this too complicated. The easy way is to get a new oil pump can and short length of plastic tubing that fits over the billed valve on the brake and the pump can. Put the tube on the bleeder and open the bleeder and. Pump the brake fluid up to the master cylinder. When you see fluid in the master cylinder close the bleeder valve then go to the other side. It only took me 15 minutes to do mine. Btw this is how aircraft brakes are bled

Emeraude wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 12, 2023 9:27 am

You are making this too complicated. The easy way is to get a new oil pump can and short length of plastic tubing that fits over the billed valve on the brake and the pump can. Put the tube on the bleeder and open the bleeder and. Pump the brake fluid up to the master cylinder. When you see fluid in the master cylinder close the bleeder valve then go to the other side. It only took me 15 minutes to do mine. Btw this is how aircraft brakes are bled

I used the same method when I installed mine. Common on motorcycle and car work for a new system. It is called reverse fill. Works like a charm as you push the air up and out.

I'd be cautious using even a brand-new oil can to fill or bleed brakes. A new can may contain some type of lubricating oil from assembly/testing. If you use an oil can, use a new one that has been flushed with a brake-cleaning solvent and then flushed again with fresh brake fluid.

I added Birdhaven Disc Brakes to my '23 Touring 4 years ago. What a fantastic product!! After a month or two of driving I had one of the brake line fittings work loose at the tee and cause my disc brakes to fail. Luckily, I had de-adjusted the transmission brake to work as a back-up and was able to get safely home. At Bill Devine's suggestion I used thread locker on the tee fittings to prevent a recurrence. I have had no further problems. I love my disc brakes and despite what purists think, I recommend them to everyone who drives their T. Thank you Bill and Birdhaven.

I have seen this brake line issue more than once I wonder are we using a flare nut wrench when we install these brakes. A standard open
end wrench will round out the flare nut before it's tight if it is not a real good quality wrench as in a Snap-on, Mac or Matco. I'm not sure
Loctite is a good option if the nut is not tight in the first place. Yes Yes Yes if you use a oil can to bleed brakes ( I like that method ) if I
don't have my pressure bleeder available. just a very small amount of oil in a brake system will make a mess of things.
Craig.

Within the bounds of available friction surface etc via the rear tyres I think improving the Model T braking action is a laudable idea. I should imagine something like this would reduce drivetrain stress as well as hopefully improve stopping distances. However I was curious about at least once aspect of the design:

In looking at the photographs I wondered about the loading on the master cylinder mounting bracket (and the engine rear flange + bolts) when a force was applied via hefty stomp on the brake pedal. There seems to be quite some lever arm there, and maybe only a couple of securing bolts?

A quick search didn't reveal any dimensions of the product, nor full fixing detail, but as I've never seen one of these units in the flesh I'd be interested to know what people thought about this, also whether there was much evident flex of the bracket in use? Not saying there's anything wrong, just the enquiring mind musing away during a wet day.

Luke.

Just my personal observation about Sure Stop disc brakes. It takes just the lightest firm pressure on the brake pedal to activates these brakes. If your axles have little or minimal end play and the calipers are installed correctly you will have a very responsive pedal and never a need to stomp on the pedal. Mine have “saved my bacon” at least twice when I should have been more alert and cautious when driving in traffic. Like to oilcan bleeding concept too!!!

Mike you shouldn’t be cooking bacon while drive your T unless it’s in the manifold cooker in which case I’d ask do you find the thick sliced bacon vs the thin bacon is better suited for the manifold cooker?

Luke, The master cylinder mounting bracket is made of 1/4" plate steel and is very ridged. Flexing is not an issue. I have needed to "slam" on my brakes a time or two but due to superior braking efficiency, excessive force is not needed to bring a Model T to a stop. Your concern is valid but I have found the Sure Stop system is extremely well designed and the quality of components to be excellent.

Luc P. for extra strength , I made an all thread [bolt ] there .
See Pictures .
Toon

Guys, thanks for responding.

Good to hear the brakes are effective and don't require much force in the normal course of events, my curiosity was more centred around an 'emergency stop' situation where it's a natural reaction to stomp hard on brakes. A quick 'back of the fag packet' calculation suggested to me there could be as much as 500kN or more in tension applied to the two(?) securing bolts, and a significant bending moment to the bracket and hogshead flange, which is what piqued my interest.

Anthonie, those photographs are revealing, thank you. The bracket and cylinder appear different (was this an earlier model, or a unit you've made yourself?) however the photos give further insight as to how the master cylinder is secured. I originally thought the bracket might have been ~3/8" thick but from the greater detail I can see, and from John's comment that it's just 1/4", I think that reaction rod you've installed is a good thing, although I imagine where it's connected to the lower mounting bolt of the cylinder could lead to some rotation of the bracket under load.

Otherwise I want to reiterate I wasn't criticising the quality of the components, indeed they look well made, it's just that I wondered about the capacity of the system to deal with the possible force applied from a heavy boot, and from that whether the design might be improved (if needed).

Luke.

The force I apply to my sure-stop brakes is similar to what I apply in a modern car with power brakes. If you stomp the pedal you will likely lock up the rear wheels. For heavy braking (not a panic stop) the old trick of pumping the brakes works well.

Count me "IN" as a believer in Sure-Stop Disk brakes from Birdhaven. I wouldn't drive my T without them.