MTFCA Forum

So I’m in the middle of a rebuild, it’s a 27 engine still original and ran, but puffed a bit of smoke when throttled. I’m currently restoring the car and am now focusing on the engine.
My plan/ budget is to just do a minimal rebuild right now as I want to try and salvage the cast iron pistons and it ran not too bad to begin with.
I am replacing the valves because it had the original two piece ones and understand they can be prone to failure.
I ordered new .015 oversized valves with the reamer and the green timesaver thinking I could just lap these in. I just started with the first valve to see how it goes and think I just ruined it by lapping too much? It took a long time and in the end left grooves.
Now I’m thinking cutting new seats is the way to go?
Didn’t really wasn’t to spend a bunch of money on cutters for a single job, anyone out there close to Saskatchewan Canada who has a set, I could bring block or willing to loan?
Or might it just be cheaper to take to a machine shop at this point? Problem with that is they are usually so busy it seems to take forever around my area to get any work done.

Are you saying that you now have a step between the lapped & un-lapped face of the valve?

No step, just very small grooves, or is that normal/ ok?

Trying to get a good photo. I read that in another post grooves from lapping are bad? Because when they heat up and expand the grooves won’t line up? Just trying to clarify what is acceptable.

I wouldn't worry about that. It won't be long before someone will mention that lapping should not be done and that the right way to do this is with an expensive cutter that produces a proper 3 angle valve seat. All of that is true. But, for what you're doing and with your budget, you'll be fine. You don't need to do extensive lapping. Just enough to confirm full 360 degree contact on the valve face and the seat is all you need to accomplish.

The valve is not ruined. For best results and lasting valve job, the seats would need ground or cut, the stems would need to be fitted correctly in the guides, new springs would be advisable, and the valve lash would need to be correctly set. The valve seat width is critical, and the valve seat should contact the center of the valve face. Little, if any, lapping would be required. It's also important that the valve lifters be a good fit in the block, and that the cam is in good shape. Getting all this right with no experience and no tools can be very difficult. The first thing to do is to obtain printed matter explaing the various steps and procedures and specifications and reading up. Then you can determine if you want to proceed with doing it yourself. It is entirely possible to do a good job with (specialized) hand tools, but it must be done right with the proper tools for good results that will last. The appearance of the lapped surface on the new valve is normal, but there should nmot be a "step" or ridge where the lapped surface meets the original surface of the valve face. Keep in mind that the cast iron valve seat in the block is softer than the new valve, and some blocks have had hard seat inserts added.

People used to hand-lap cast iron valves to cast iron seats. Done correctly, it can give a good result. However, grinding valves used to be considered periodic maintenence. A proper valve job with modern valves will last for tens of thousands of miles.

I dont like the lip in the block above the lapped section of the seat. During a valve job, a cutter or stone removes this sharp edge with a 30 degree cutter/stone. Its also the way to move the contact surface lower on the valve face. The seating surface should not be to the top edge of the valve.
The created pocket is the equivalent to removing cam lift that amount.
The grind rings you see indicate to me to coarse a compound. Do less with the coarse & follow with some fine lapping compound.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 26, 2023 6:56 pm

People used to hand-lap cast iron valves to cast iron seats. Done correctly, it can give a good result. However, grinding valves used to be considered periodic maintenence. A proper valve job with modern valves will last for tens of thousands of miles.

I would encourage you to do the job right. A good & proper valve job is important to your performance.

It is often recommended NOT to rotate the valve against the seat when lapping. The best practice is to work the valve back and forth against the seat with light pressure. Use of the traditional suction cup hand lapping tool facilitates this.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 26, 2023 7:30 pm

It is often recommended NOT to rotate the valve against the seat when lapping. The best practice is to work the valve back and forth against the seat with light pressure. Use of the traditional suction cup hand lapping tool facilitates this.

True.
Also add some intermittent lifting to replace the worn/dry compound during the lap.
A suction cup on a stick type tool. Rotate between both hands like trying to start a friction fire.

For the price of sending to a machine shop, you could buy yourself a set of Neway cutters. When you're done, you'll have a proper narrow seat and will own the tools forever. You will be one popular guy.

With very wide seats and low valve spring pressure, you spread the seat force over a much larger area and thus have way less seat pressure than was designed. A small piece of carbon stuck on the seat and bingo you have a burned valve/seat. With a proper narrow seat, you will more than likely chop the carbon up and that's that...just a small miss that goes away in a few seconds vs a miss that goes on for awhile and you induce wear that should have otherwise taken 10's of thousands of miles.

I realize you're on a budget, but at some point, investing in good tools doesn't cost, it pays.

I think they look good. Did you lap back and forth or in one constant circular motion? What grit lapping compound did you use? The best way is to use a fine compound and lapping back and forth with the suction type lapping tool? Using a course lapping compound will leave ridges. You can remove the ridges with a few back and forth laps with the fine 1200 grit lapping compound. Less lapping is best leaving a narrow seat. Jim Patrick

So I started with the timesaver Green (very fine) using a suction cup method, I was having trouble getting a grind 360 degrees around so I thought maybe needed a different compound, so I tried using the permatex valve grinding compound, and used that for a bit also made the mistake of trying to duct tape a drill to the other end of the lapping tool, it was a lot more coarse and did speed things up but realized that was a mistake after I noticed some grooving so went back to the timesaver by hand.
But it was hours to do the one valve and my arms are ready to fall off

Lapping valves is good exersize.

Scott_Conger wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 26, 2023 7:55 pm

For the price of sending to a machine shop, you could buy yourself a set of Neway cutters. When you're done, you'll have a proper narrow seat and will own the tools forever. You will be one popular guy.

With very wide seats and low valve spring pressure, you spread the seat force over a much larger area and thus have way less seat pressure than was designed. A small piece of carbon stuck on the seat and bingo you have a burned valve/seat. With a proper narrow seat, you will more than likely chop the carbon up and that's that...just a small miss that goes away in a few seconds vs a miss that goes on for awhile and you induce wear that should have otherwise taken 10's of thousands of miles.

I realize you're on a budget, but at some point, investing in good tools doesn't cost, it pays.

Yes I’m thinking about this. Would be nice if I could do it with just one cutter but understand that the 3 angles are best.
Going to call a local machine shop tomorrow just to see what cost and time estimate I’m looking then way the options.
If I go the cutter route then I’m assuming that I should just replace the one valve I lapped already?

Brent

whether or not you buy cutters, at least give Neway a call. There is a fellow who regularly works with T hobbiests to put together the most compact, complete kit possible. Cutters come single sided or double sided (double sided is not twice the cost). You would come away with a set which will have a 46 degree cutter for the valve, and 30 (or 31) and 60 degree cutters for the undercut and top cuts. My set came with a double cutter of 46 and 31 degrees, and a single cutter of 60 degrees, along with correct pilots and T-handle, etc.

The 46 degree seat will "pound in" and conform to the 45 degree valve within seconds of the first run of the engine and make an absolutely tight sealing valve. You do NOT lap the finished seat. Some will tell you that you should, but the manufacturer advises not to, and I agree with them...lapping completely undoes what the cutter does for you.

My advice is to cut the seats, as mentioned earlier, so yes, your one valve is toast as it is. Not to worry, due to the way they're packaged and shipped there is no guarantee that they do not already have minor damage and it is always good practice to let a pro kiss-grind all new valves to a perfect and concentric 45 degree angle (then treat them with respect). So, your lapped valve can be refaced (you'll be shocked at the notch you've lapped into it).

Here's a good post discussing Neway cutters: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/82 ... 1543004867

Do NOT be tempted to try to buy a generic kit off of eBay!! You will not end up with the right stuff and no matter how cheap it is, you will over-spend getting the correct bits to make it work for a T.

There might be someone nearby with a seat grinder. I would grind them and even do a three angle job for you if I lived close by. I have grind a lot of seats for others. There might be a member in a car club near you who could help. Model t people seem to help each other and understand budgets.
Even a lap job like you described can give acceptable results. I have seen it work a lot 60 or 70 years ago. Keep us informed

Art Mirtes

So I called all the local shops and as I suspected they are all 3-4 months out. But the price one shop gave was $11 per valve which to me I thought was quite reasonable.
Art, if there was someone within a few hour drive from me I’d probably bring the block over and get it done, but doesn’t seem to be too many T enthusiasts in my area. Every show I went to last year I was the only one, only one other guy had a T.

Scott, think at this point I’ll call Neway and see what I’m looking at. Don’t really have budget for this but having two Model T’s and another 1914 engine that I was going to rebuild for fun eventually it might pay for itself.

Brent

here's a thought...just a what-if scenario: you buy the custom kit that Neway quotes...do the job and then deduct $11 x 6 from the total cost of your tool set and offer it for sale on the forum (I bet it will be snapped up by someone as a bargain).

This way, you get the experience and satisfaction of doing the job yourself, for only the cost of sending it out (less the time and energy wasted) and someone will get a great value on an essentially "new" Neway kit.

This way your budget doesn't get dinged but for the short period you hold on to the set.

Something to think about and perhaps even line up a sale and gauge interest on the Forum before committing to the purchase.

Brent:
If you are ok with the valve regrinding charge, and with 3 model T engines in the rebuilding queue, the Neway cutter purchase is a no brainer. And follow Neway's advice regarding not lapping the final assembly. jb

Just a thought. Looking at your second photo, it appears that the lapped area of the valve appears grey and the unlapped portion appears silver. If that is correct then your valve is seating deep into the block, grinding the seat will only make the valve seat deeper. Ideally you want the lapped surface on the valve to be in the middle of the valve edge, at least that is what I was always taught. The correct fix may involve installing seats in the block.
Hope this helps,

Well, Scott i took your advice and called Neway before I knew it I had an order placed. They were terrific to deal with. Ordered the 31-46 cutter, the 60 cutter, the wrench, solid .327 pilot and an expandable pilot in case the solid doesn’t fit or in case I am doing other sizes.
Total came to $288 plus shipping, taxes etc. That’s not that bad and now I’ll be able to service my valves from now on and not have to wait several months, life is too short for that.
Now I’ll just have to figure out how to use these so as to not screw up the block. Neway said to ensure the 46 degree cut was the last cut to do. Was thinking I would start with the 60, then 31 then 46? Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

As I recall, their website provides excellent guidance on their use and is what I used as my baseline for learning. https://www.newaymfg.com/literature/OperMan.pdf

a black sharpie can be used to "paint" the seat and then go in for a gentle cut and check progress. Your reamed guides are hopefully very close or perfectly centered below the seat(s). Minor shifts that occured when the guides were reamed will show up as slightly non-concentric seat cuts which should clean up quickly. The 31 and 60 degree cutters "raise" or "lower" where the valve seat is relative to the valve.

Remember, you'll have to shorten the valves a little to get them to close, so after shortening to that extent, you may use a valve to do the final check of the seat...a thin smear of Prussian Blue (just enough to tint the metal...not excess which will smear) and now you can let the valve go in under it's own weight...then I lift the valve by the stem and let it drop 1/2" or so and then carefully remove...there will be a very narrow "clean" ring on either the block or the valve depending on which was painted with the blueing. When you get a complete ring, you are done.

I found that the key is to do the cuts very lightly so as to not bias the pilot one way or the other and get off-center. Once you have a complete ring cut and there is no chance of bending the pilot, a little firmer pressure can be used. They are very efficient cutters so don't go nuts.

Good luck and I'm really happy to hear that they are still as great to deal with as I remember them being to me.

Don't overlook valve to lifter clearance adjustments, whether by use of adjustable lifters or by grinding stem and/or valve face.

Absolutely. As this is still the original cam and lifters I was going to shoot for around 0.015 clearance between valve and lifter but from reading looks like anywhere from 0.010 to 0.031 is acceptable? I would go to 0.010 but wondering if that is too tight for an original cam that likely has some wear in the bearings/bushing?

Original cam. There will be worn lobes & inaccurate original timing. They were not nearly as accurately ground compared to modern grinding methods. Uck. I would not keep an old original cam in my motor. Especially considering you have the motor out & broke down. This is the heart & soul of your motor.
If you must, I would set all the clearances .012 ish. When done, degree the opening & closing events for each valve. You will see the events all over the place. By changing each valve clearance to optimize the consistent opening & closing you will get a more consistent combustion profile between all 4 cylinders. You will at the least have a smoother running engine. What I have described is a readable, accurate method similar to the KRW piston position method.
I degree & check all timing events on any new or reground cams to insure all events are within a few degrees. I will typically find one or two out 10 or so degrees. I have found a defective grind cam by checking. Motor would have not run well.
Remember, trust but verify.

If you intend on using the original cam & original lifters "as-is" verify the lifters have not worn a depression into the lifter body from the constant working of the valve stem as you will never get a true valve lash reading with your feeler gauges !

Another good reason to go a little further with a new cam & adjustable/new lifters.
You are seeing first hand what a can of worms working on a T is.
If you use the old lifters, it would be better to pull them & resurface them.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 27, 2023 2:38 pm

Another good reason to go a little further with a new cam & adjustable/new lifters.
You are seeing first hand what a can of worms working on a T is.
If you use the old lifters, it would be better to pull them & resurface them.

Thanks, I agree, my initial budget for this restoration has over doubled almost tripled from what I originally thought. And just when I thought I had everything figured out there is something else.
I’m looking into getting a new cam, but by the time I get a new cam, cam gear, bearings, bushing, lifters, reamer I’m over another $1000. My wife is likely to make me live in my t coupe and doesn’t look that comfortable to sleep in ha ha.
My lifters do have a slight cup, maybe .015 so guess I’ll pull the cam and remove the lifters and reface them. But I’m afraid that will just open another can of worms.

Opening a used Model T engine/transmission assembly is pretty much akin to a plumbing job under the sink/house - it just keeps snowballing !!!

Good luck my friend & don't be shy about asking for help or assistance - most of us old guys have nothing better to do !

Called several places, looks like no new camshafts are available currently. Guess I’m stuck with the old one for now. Was thinking about putting in a Stipe 280 or 250.
Wasn’t sure which would be better suited for my car given it is a 27 coupe with a stock engine with original cast iron pistons, stock head, stock timer and coils, stock rear differential. I live in the prairies no real hills to speak of. Would like something I could tour with though.
Also, since solid tappets are no longer available I am going to go with adjustable type thinking the self locking two wrench type since I only have two hands lol, unless there is a reason the locknut 3 wrench style are better?
Suggestions?

Did you try Chaffins?
They used to carry a good inventory of their own ground cams.

If you plan on driving the car on tours, I urge you to install new aluminum pistons and rings, a new cam and bearings, new timing gears, valves, lifters and springs, and be sure that the cylinder bores are in good condition, reboring if necessary. Pistons and rings are very inexpensive. The crankshaft assembly must be in good condition for dependable service. A '27 coupe would benefit from a high compression head. Obviously, the rest of the drive train also needs to be in good condition, and you will need a good radiator and dependable wiring and ignition. It's a good idea to be sure the car is in good overall condition before taking it out on the road, and it's a lot easier to do this at home than it is to do it out along the roadside. Steering and brakes need to be in good order. A Model T in good condition will provide dependable service, even on long distance trips.

Hi Brent,
Sounds like you will be almost all stock nothing wrong with that. I have heard that the 2 wrench tappets may not stay in adjustment
I have no direct experience with this because I'm to cheap to buy them. I buy the 3 wrench ones. With the lack of new cams I would
suggest the Chaffins regrind, I like mine enough to buy another one. I also have some very nice stock cams in two engines that run
very well.
Craig

Regrind cam need undersized cam bearings. Only standard cam bearings available. They are made for new or good used cams.
The snowball gets bigger.

Also, used cam used lifters need to be timed not set with feeler gage.

To Pat’s point you’re doing a lot of work not to buy aluminum pistons.

Tried Chaffins, no luck. Would rather new than a regrind.
I think I’ll wait until they are back in stock. I can always pull the engine back out. Might just rebore and install aluminum pistons at that time, but really wanted to see how it will run with the original cast iron pistons because once I bore cast iron no more.

Here's perhaps a contrarian view on Iron pistons:

A "T" with Cast Iron pistons runs like a "T". Usually much quieter than with aluminum, and the idle will throttle down very low, beyond that of cars upgraded with aluminum. That's because the car is still a "T". It will run 28-33MPH very nicely all day long. That's because the car is still a "T". FWIW, I have driven an originally equipped "T" all over FL and GA, on multiple National and Regional tours all over the country, and never found the car lacking in any respect. That's because I know it's a "T", and I don't subject it to things a "T" cannot reliably do. It's 104 years old with 104 year old technology, and I bought it because it was an antique car...not a toy that needs improving. Folks who have bought cars too worn out to freshen up, have to resort to aluminum pistons (and usually lots of performance "bling") and unfortunately never feel or hear their car perform as designed, and that's a shame.

If you want to do 55MPH, or run up to 30MPH in low gear (all things folks have claimed to do here on the forum, and I believe them) then you need aluminum pistons and lots of upgrades. And your car will no longer be a "T" to the extent that you will ever feel or enjoy it's original attributes.

Since Model "T"s typically are neither considered nor treated like valuable old cars, there are no limits to the type of modifications performed or expectations that the car MUST keep up with traffic. Except for FORD Specials, I see little if any evidence that owners of EARLY Fords are interested in keeping up with Interstate traffic and I suspect that once you spend over a certain amount of $$ for an Antique Car, you are content to own an Antique Car, and not something irredeemably slow which must be "improved" to the point of being unsafe.

Nothing wrong with keeping Iron pistons while you can still do so.

You'll get a much better job for the money and effort invested by replacing the iron pistons with a good set of aluminum pistons and a good set of modern rings. Assuming the bores are in good condition, you will need to perform the same honing operations and ring fitting operations either way, and the requirements as to bore condition are the same. Ring fitting and new piston fitting would be done to manufacturer's specifications in either case, and considerations related to the condition of the rest of the engine would be the same. The rings shown in the picture are well-worn, and it may be that the pistons and bores are also well-worn, especially if they have been re-ringed before and worn out 2 or more sets of rings. I'd be very careful to accurately measure each bore before proceding with choosing to use either the old pistons or new ones. You can invest money and effort in a half-baked overhaul and wind up with an engine that does not run as well as it did before. Equipment used to be available to re-size worn pistons and re-machine worn ring grooves, and semi-finished or oversize rings used to be available. Ring groove shims were alo available. I doubt if anyone is equipped to do that work anymore. Within limits, worn ring lands can be resized with a lathe, but oversize or semi-finished rings would have to be obtained, or ring land shims. A machinist could knurl worn pistons skirts, but it would cost more than new pistons, and would still not guarantee good service and long life. New pistons can be bought cheaper than old ones can be reconditioned.

Pat

to which rings and grooves are you referring to? There are no pictures of these items on this thread.

It's a thread about replacing two-piece valves and creating new seats. Thus far the peanut gallery has advised to put in a new cam, new lifters, new cam bearings, new pistons (and very shortly will be advising new rods, crank and mains, I expect). All this for a fellow who is trying to do his car on a budget on a car that only "puffed a little smoke" on an otherwise good running engine. The puffing is more than likely worn valve guides and will be remedied by new oversize valves. All this is great advice for a full-up refresh or total rebuild, but all of that exceeds his stated goal of this job.

If he'd pulled the engine out of a dry creek bed, I'd be advising all sorts of things too...but he didn't.

A Model T engine with properly fitted aluminum pistons will run quietly and perform well at low speeds if it has a stock grind cam and stock flyhweel and magneto. If you add a high lift cam, low end performance will be compromised to some degree. A T with aluminum pistons can operate reliabley at somewhat higher speeds than one with iron pistons, or iron pistons and "heavy" rods. Normal engine imbalance resulting from lack of crankshaft counterweights will be reduced somewhat with aluminum pistons.

Scott:
You are correct. I had this thread confused with the worn rings/iron pistons thread elsewhere on the forum, which contains pictures of well-worn original style rings in an engine with stock, perhaps original, pistons.

Personally, If I was doing major valve work, or ring work, I would replace the iron pistons, if present, for the same reasons I would replace the original 2-piece valves, if present, and the fiber cam gear, if present.

I really do appreciate all the advice given. Maybe a little more context behind the story of this car will help to understand why I am trying to restore as original as possible.
I’m the 3rd owner of this car, the original owner came from the same town that I live in. The car sat in a shed for the last 43yrs and other that the missing interior was pretty much complete.
I changed the oil, flushed the radiator and water jacket best I could without removing the head, replaced spark plugs, flushed and cleaned gas tank and carburetor, then I put some gas in, fresh battery and fired it up. It ran quite well but obviously needed some attention as there was multiple oil leaks, the radiator had some leaks and the valves made some noise, when I would rev the engine it would puf a bit of smoke, but mostly from the oil breather cap. I was impressed how well it idled so low and didn’t detect any blow by or smoke at idle. Could even hand start on magneto. I took it for a quick drive and the engine sounded better than my other car, high gear was slipping so knew i needed to do some work to the transmission and clutch. Thus began my frame off restoration. The further I got into this the more I realized needed to be redone, I’m actually thankful I wasn’t able to get into high gear as the front axle and steering were in poor condition and with a bent drag link I oversteered once and lost control ending up on my neighbors front lawn. That was enough driving for me, back into the garage and began the disassembly.
I have another T that has a complete rebuild with aluminum pistons etc, but as Scott’s earlier post put it so eloquently I want to drive a T, I want to pay homage to this car being a survivor and see how it will do with the original engine components where feasible. At some point I will undoubtedly have to do a complete rebuild but I would like to at least get this car back on the road and unfortunately I have far exceeded my budget for this year.

In that case, I would have devoted my attention to the clutch, radiator and steering, and let the engine be for now, assuming it has no knocks. It's possible the blowby would improve with some miles driven. A used engine with 2 piece valves that runs well with no valve leakage and no high speed (over 35 MPH) driving could be expected to be reliable. I would want to adjust the valves to run quietly and with accurate timing. Properly adjusted valves give best performance and operate under minimal stress.

TXGOAT2 wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 03, 2023 12:50 pm

In that case, I would have devoted my attention to the clutch, radiator and steering, and let the engine be for now, assuming it has no knocks. It's possible the blowby would improve with some miles driven. A used engine with 2 piece valves that runs well with no valve leakage and no high speed (over 35 MPH) driving could be expected to be reliable. I would want to adjust the valves to run quietly and with accurate timing. Properly adjusted valves give best performance and operate under minimal stress.

I have a new brass works radiator, replaced all the steering bushings, axle bushing king pins, spring bushings and shackles, have another drag link to replace the bent one. Also have new clutch kit and clutch spring. Hopefully it all goes back together well.

Brent

drag links came in several lengths (no telling if what came off was a correct one for sure...maybe was, maybe wasn't...). Do some Forum research for the correct length for YOUR car and be sure you purchased the correct one. Having the wrong one could easily send you into the neighbor's yard on the OTHER side of the road...

And for full disclosure, I own 4 Model T's...my '13 being largely original complete with cast iron pistons, sporting an ugly 1970's "black" paint job. It is a sweet running T. My other 3 range from "maintained" but with an original engine (my main tour car), to "partially rebuilt" to my last one a runabout which could be described as "restored" with a performance cam and a Waukesha Ricardo head. I mention this to clarify that it is not my position that all cars should remain "original", but to state that there is a distinct difference between a FORD-built survivor and a brand-spanking-new restoration. Sometimes the FORD-built car is just fine for its intended purpose.

Have fun...stay safe...drive with eyes in the back of your head...

I would not do any un-necessary work on an actual original factory build Model T that ran reasonably well, even a late model. If I had the privilege of owning a mostly original early T, I would not be at all inclined to "update" it, and any needed repairs would be as close to original as possible.
In the case of a pristine original, early or late, but especially early, I would limit miles driven and be very careful about where I drove.

I have a near-original late T, and I drive it a lot. Over this last week, I have driven it 140 miles or more, according to an on board Garmin device.

I’m going to straighten out the old drag link best I can then put the other salvage one I have beside it to measure, I’m hoping it will be the same, I can’t believe there are so many different lengths all of which are close to each other. None of the suppliers have replacement drag links listed for the 26-27?

I have a '27 roadster that handles very nicely. I'll measure the drag link sometime today and post the result.

The drag link on my '27 roadster measures 30 3/4 inches, caps off.

I just reread to see that the drag link is bent...Unless it's kinked, there is no reason not to straighten a bent drag link and use it with confidence

I measured the other one and it’s shorter, so I straighten the original one best I could. Thanks Txgoat for measuring yours, I confirmed mine is the same length.

Take it to a friend with a little 12 ton press and take that last bend out of it (about 6" from foreground). Should barely take a tweek to get perfect and Should be just fine after that.

Scott_Conger wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 09, 2023 8:35 pm

Take it to a friend with a little 12 ton press and take that last bend out of it (about 6" from foreground). Should barely take a tweek to get perfect and Should be just fine after that.

Did you mean 1/2 ton?

Not really.

a 12 ton press is a pretty standard, almost Hobby-type press commonly found pretty much everywhere (I've never seen a 1/2 ton press). Apply as much pressure as needed with the part thoughtfully supported and guarded (it won't be much pressure in the grand scheme of things).

my point being that it is an easy job that can be controlled and tweaked in a small press as opposed to mounting it in a vice, dropping an 8' pipe over it and yanking.

My own press was bought from a hobbyist who "had it 20 years and never used it even once". I use it constantly. As purchased, it was more of a big rubber band than a press as it did more stretching than squishing. I've upgraded it and improved it so much over the years that it's like my grandpa's original axe...replaced the head twice and handle 3 times, but it's still grandpa's axe.

I am in Canada, but far, far from you, so that's no help. I had the same issue, and found a cost effective way to do 3-angle seats myself. Video here:https://youtu.be/WLcaqM89iQE

As usual, excellent content and delivery/editing

Kudos!

Great video Flivver! Where does a guy go to get those valves and keepers you used in Canada? How does the valve stem length compare to the model T ones?

I cut my seats but am wondering if I too should have used larger head valves as some of these sit fairly low in the block.

Scott_Conger wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:50 am

Not really.

a 12 ton press is a pretty standard, almost Hobby-type press commonly found pretty much everywhere (I've never seen a 1/2 ton press). Apply as much pressure as needed with the part thoughtfully supported and guarded (it won't be much pressure in the grand scheme of things).

my point being that it is an easy job that can be controlled and tweaked in a small press as opposed to mounting it in a vice, dropping an 8' pipe over it and yanking.

My own press was bought from a hobbyist who "had it 20 years and never used it even once". I use it constantly. As purchased, it was more of a big rubber band than a press as it did more stretching than squishing. I've upgraded it and improved it so much over the years that it's like my grandpa's original axe...replaced the head twice and handle 3 times, but it's still grandpa's axe.

Thanks Scott, great idea, my friend has a shop press like you speak of, I’ll take it to him and see if we can get the last bends out.

You will find that you have to "over bend" a little for it to rebound to straight. Keep at it...don't go crazy, and it will be very straight when you're done.

The part numbers are given in the video. With those, you can find everything at an autoparts store and/or tractor parts store. I ordered the valves online at Rockauto I think, and the keepers were from my local tractor dealer.

The valve length was just right for adjustable lifters - I did not grind them down at all.

Pizman wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:21 am

Great video Flivver! Where does a guy go to get those valves and keepers you used in Canada? How does the valve stem length compare to the model T ones?

I cut my seats but am wondering if I too should have used larger head valves as some of these sit fairly low in the block.