MTFCA Forum

The radiator on my Touring has never fit right, I had thought it was the frame, it was bent and welded, I bought a new frame and brought it to frame shop and had them make sure it was correct per the frame drawing I have. Now that I putting it together with the new frame I am having the same problems, It's as if my radiator is to high, I can pull the bottom of the radiator shell out towards the front of the car which helps but can't pull it out far enough, the light bar is in the way, looking for guidance on what to check or do.
I can get one side or the other to fit but that moves the center of the hood on the cowl side to the left or right of center.
The top of the shell is 21-1/2" from the hood shelf, I've check the dimensions of the hood against the drawing on Lang's website, I'm stumped.
The 3rd picture is me holding the hood bottom edge where it should land when closed.

Before I'd mess with the hood fit I'd finish mounting the radiator shell, bottom & sides. What do the hood hinges look like, top & sides.
Pictures are needed
Next questions would be about the hood shelf and wood blocks. Then how the hood fit with the hood clips attached.

Bruce, I am having similar problems. I took my radiator completely off. I put a square on one frame rail and measured almost 2" shorter than the other rail. My first suspicion was the frame was out of square. I purchased the T from my late best friend's estate. I had helped him build some of this truck. I remember him telling me he took the frame and had it worked over: square, level, straight, the whole works by a old guy who did this for 30+ years. I also had that guy do a frame for me. When I got it back, I checked dimensions, square, level and it looks like brand new less paint. So, I believe the truck frame is good. Since my friend purchased a body from Courier Coach Works, I know the body is straight but there is still a 2" difference. It may well be the front axle/springs or the engine mounting flexing the frame.

My thoughts are to strip off everything in front of the firewall, put jack stands behind the firewall under the frame, strip off the front suspension, disconnect the front motor mount, and jack the front of the engine up a touch to get the weight off the frame. See how the measurements are then. With all that done, there wouldn't be anything holding the frame out of square so the measurements should be correct. From there, replace one item at a time and measure between each addition to see if a fender or the engine or whatever is pulling the frame out of alignment. Could even be the steering column.

I well know how frustrating it is when the hood won't fit correctly.

Good Luck,
Terry

A sagging frame will give you those problems with hood fitment....less measurement at the top, and pronounced gap below. Unequal sag will give unequal gaps or closeness. Traveling on dirt roads in the day would affect frame straightness.

The bottom edge of the hood is not supposed to come all the way down to the hood shelf on either side. With the hood on the car and fitting the cowl and radiator shell reasonably well, and latched down, the hood sides will be about 5/8 to 3/4" above the hood shelves.

The radiator shell does not sit down flat on the frame or the hood shelves. It sits on springs a little higher than the hood shelf.

I remember reading somewhere that one way to align a hood to the body is to use shims to lift the body slightly. Maybe someone more knowledgeable about this will comment.

bmklawt wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:44 pm

The radiator on my Touring has never fit right, I had thought it was the frame, it was bent and welded, I bought a new frame and brought it to frame shop and had them make sure it was correct per the frame drawing I have. Now that I putting it together with the new frame I am having the same problems, It's as if my radiator is to high, I can pull the bottom of the radiator shell out towards the front of the car which helps but can't pull it out far enough, the light bar is in the way, looking for guidance on what to check or do.
I can get one side or the other to fit but that moves the center of the hood on the cowl side to the left or right of center.
The top of the shell is 21-1/2" from the hood shelf, I've check the dimensions of the hood against the drawing on Lang's website, I'm stumped.
The 3rd picture is me holding the hood bottom edge where it should land when closed.

Since you have ensured that the frame is straight lets move on to the issue of getting it o fit when moving the hood left or right of center. The hood has to fit dead center so do you have a support bar from the firewall to the radiator and also these parts (hood rod clips) on the firewall & radiator that the hood hing bars rest in? This will keep it centered, The when the hood lips on the hood shelf are clipped are attached then the hodd should fir

If you add shims to the body mounts it might help some.
Loosen the bolts to the body to frame bolts just behind the engine and add two flat washers on each side. Place them between the body and the mount.

Be sure to loosen the two body to frame mounts behind the two just behind the engine and start by adding one washer at that point.

Use washers that are fairly thick. You can find the different thicknesses at Ace or Tru value hardware stores.

Remember to loosen the body to frame mount all at one time and then start adding the washers. Good luck.
There are several older threads about doing this to get the hood to fit better.

I looked at the November 8 and 9, 2019 posts, specifically the two from George N Lake Ozark and Mike Robinson. They pointed out that new springs were too long and stiff.

I am installing a new radiator on my 1927 coupe and found the same problem with my new springs (see attached photo). I have found two of the original springs. As a trial, I have put the old springs above the frame. Hopefully, I can find the other two original springs so I can use them inside the frame.

It is too bad that the suppliers don't provide springs that match the original.

I do have the support rod in from radiator to cowl also the hood hinge bars, hood does sit 1/2"to 3/4" above hood shelf, the radiator is sitting on the hood shelf with no hardware, I imagine the problem will only get worse when I put the radiator mounting hardware on, I do not have the engine in, waiting on a motor mount, I just wanted to see if the new frame fixed the problem, I just checked the frame and it is not bowed.
I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something, I feel the radiator is to high, body is to low or I have a badly made reproduction hood, wish I had an original hood to try. I'll wait until the motor is in and I can get the radiator mounted and see were I'm at, I believe the problem will get worse, never thought about raising the body, will that mess with the steering column?

What is the radiator resting on when you attempt to install the hood? Do you have a 1926-'27 frame with the correct front crossmember? ****

Does your car have the stamped steel brackets that attach to the firewall at each side, above the frame, and extend downward alongside the outside of the frame frame rail? (Some cars have them; some don't)

If your car has them, installing them should locate the firewall at a specific height above the frame. There is another thread about assembling a 1927 coupe that discusses these brackets.

You might be able to adjust the radiator by tightening the stud on one side and loosening on the other side. Do not completely compress the springs because it must be able to flex as you drive. Also shimming up the body on one side helps. But if the frame sags very much you will pull the wishbone to one side which will cause the car to pull to one side as you drive along. Difficult to steer and the tires will wear faster. So you can try some small adjustments on the height of the body or on the radiator, however if more than a quarter of an inch you should straighten the frame.
Norm

bmklawt wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:21 pm

I do have the support rod in from radiator to cowl also the hood hinge bars, hood does sit 1/2"to 3/4" above hood shelf, the radiator is sitting on the hood shelf with no hardware, I imagine the problem will only get worse when I put the radiator mounting hardware on, I do not have the engine in, waiting on a motor mount, I just wanted to see if the new frame fixed the problem, I just checked the frame and it is not bowed.
I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something, I feel the radiator is to high, body is to low or I have a badly made reproduction hood, wish I had an original hood to try. I'll wait until the motor is in and I can get the radiator mounted and see were I'm at, I believe the problem will get worse, never thought about raising the body, will that mess with the steering column?

I think you are jumping the gun. You need to get the radiator properly mounted etc and then see how the hood fits. When I look at the pictures it appears that hood lines up vertically with the body, and if the hood was pulled & clamped down it would fit on the top and closed the gap on the hood shelf. In any case the hood needs to be clamped down in all 4 corners to see what the issues are (radiator attached properly too.
Make sure you have the right parts too. The radiator mounting kit is different for 26-27 too. I'd wait till you get the engine back in as well,
Remember that Model T parts were not expected to fit together as preciously as today's cars are, although we try. --
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Also you can expect a little fitting issue around the radiator shell. Both the high steel vs high nickle have slightly different profiles on the top and might make the hood fit look wrong but it isn't

It is too bad that the suppliers don't provide springs that match the original.

Yes, it is, but suppliers sell what is available at spring manufacturers.

This is an Excellent example of the difference between restoring the entire car vs. simply throwing away or losing all of the original fasteners and expecting to just buy perfect equivalents off the shelf

Lee Spring offers 490 different possible springs for this type of configuration. Perhaps one off the shelf will fit: https://www.leespring.com/compression-springs-hefty

They will also custom-wind exactly what you want...just spec it out and buy a bunch of them to meet the minimum order. Order them here: https://www.leespring.com/custom-quote-request

Just thought of this, the cowl is bent up around the stanchions, sometime in it's past to looks like the car hit something at the stanchions and bent them back. Both front doors are a little hinge bound and look a smidgen higher on the striker side than the hinge side. It appears to me if I were able to bend the cowl up at the hinge that might make the hood fit better and bring the open side of the front doors down to line up with the striker better, I haven't a clue how to check that, I've been looking for a cowl for a few years now with no luck.
I'm assuming I have the correct frame, can't read the serial number but it does match up with the original frame, bought 3 frames before I learn the difference between the years

But just comparing parts removed from a Model T to current reproductions isn't the same as comparing to original specifications. There is always a bit of uncertainty on some parts as being original after 100 years or potential repairs. Coil springs can weaken over time as well. Not saying this is the case but the two old springs are different heights and that can be due to a previous fix.

If the frame has a plausible number stamped on the top near where the right front door is, it's almost certainly correct.

If the body was in a rollover or heavy frontal collision, or if a tree or barn roof fell on it, it may have a number of issues. Body dimensions are available for Model As. I don't know about Model Ts. Having another touring car on hand that is straight for comparison would be helpful. I think the dimensions for a 26-27 roadster would be the same as a touring from the back of the front seat area forward.

Pictures of the body damage prior to any repairs might be helpful.

bmklawt

don't look at it as having bought extra frames...more like the start to 3 more cars (I find that "4" is an almost perfect number )

1926-27 Frame dimensions --
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Frame Identification

Scott C. makes a good point.
Sometimes when we get started restoring a T it’s really tempting to add all new parts as much as possible and especially the fasteners. You can find cans of nuts, bolts, radiator springs and etc in boxes on trailers and pickups at swap meets from others who gathered them up from home or wherever.
It’s best to keep all the fasteners and small parts.

And yes I also bought new radiator mounting springs along with some screws in my 24 Coupe rebuild and wound up using the originals I luckily saved and boy was I glad I did !
The new ones were too long! I carefully cut off a little of it but chose to use the originals. I buffed them with a wire buffing wheel, painted them and all was good. The radiator fit and was aligned just fine.