'27 Radiator Apron

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ROBERTHOOPS
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'27 Radiator Apron

Post by ROBERTHOOPS » Wed May 08, 2019 11:06 am

I’m thinking of buying a new radiator apron for my ’27 Touring. The old apron has no crank thimble in it and no holes for a trim strip. It rattles like crazy. Both the Lang’s and Schneider’s catalogs mention that a hole must be drilled in the new apron, but I’m confused about where to drill it and don’t want to mess it up.
Thanks in advance, all help will be appreciated.
Robert

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George House
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Re: '27 Radiator Apron

Post by George House » Wed May 08, 2019 1:01 pm

Perhaps they’re referring to the machine screw hole in the front spring/motor mount that fastens the radiator apron to the front motor mount. This “New and Improved” radiator apron came out in Model Year 1925 when the motor mount didn’t have a threaded option. I think it came out in Model Year ‘27. Buy it and fit it then meticulously determine where that 1/4” or #12 threaded hole is. Drill it. If you screw up, buy another one. Sometimes you win and sometimes you learn...😜
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Re: '27 Radiator Apron

Post by ModelTMark » Wed May 08, 2019 1:46 pm

To locate the hole, buy some Persian blue from the auto parts store. Smear some on surface of 1/4-20 hole on the engine mount and then fit the upon. The Persian blue will transfer to the apron marking where the hole should be drilled.

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DanTreace
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Re: '27 Radiator Apron

Post by DanTreace » Wed May 08, 2019 2:12 pm

Mark is correct as that is easy way. Better if you tap out and clear the threaded hole in the motor mount, and check the fit for the new round head single slot screw with washer. Washer is needed to keep the hole covered, as sometimes the hole is a bit oversize diameter on purpose to help locate the hole when fitting to the variations of radiator mounting.... factory tolerances needed. Narrow slots are for the trim strip tabs.


668311.jpg
Original apron.

668312.jpg
668310.jpg
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ROBERTHOOPS
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Re: '27 Radiator Apron

Post by ROBERTHOOPS » Wed May 08, 2019 5:25 pm

Thanks to all of you and especially for the pictures. A picture is worth a thousand words.
Thanks again, Robert


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Re: '27 Radiator Apron

Post by Allan » Wed May 08, 2019 8:43 pm

Robert, I would not be in a hurry to replace an original apron. The reproductions I have seen leave a lot to be desired. Unless they have been updated, they are relatively flat, the rolled edges are not as deep and they need considerable fettling to make them fit, not just drilling a hole. I would rather spend that time making yours fit for use.
Not having the thimble can be a bonus. Most do not fit exactly. If you knock up a replacement, you can position it so that it does fit.

Allan from down under.


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Re: '27 Radiator Apron

Post by Original Smith » Thu May 09, 2019 10:46 am

Typical reproduction! Don Snyder makes those. I believe his reasoning was to appease the hot rod boys. I would have made it exactly like Ford did, and let the hot rod boys deal with it! I've seen them and they are great except for the hole.

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Re: '27 Radiator Apron

Post by Roffe » Mon May 13, 2019 2:42 am

I bought a new repro apron from Langs a few years ago. I was beautifully made like the original. It even had the small tubing to hold the crank spring.
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Re: '27 Radiator Apron

Post by Gonenorth » Mon May 13, 2019 7:21 am

George, I can tell you for a fact that the tapped hole was there earlier than '27 model year cars. My '26 Tudor was assembled in early December 1925 and it has the tapped hole present in the front mount and in the apron. Don't know about 1925 model year cars though.


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Re: '27 Radiator Apron

Post by Original Smith » Mon May 13, 2019 9:39 am

The apron Dan posted doesn't have the tube welded to it.

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Re: '27 Radiator Apron

Post by DanTreace » Mon May 13, 2019 9:52 am

Good eye Larry. 8-)

That apron was a nice one, but the collar was missing, needed one, found, and added. Originals were spot welded in just a couple of places.

If these collars or spacers are missing, you have to find an original (red primer part) or fab up something that keeps the apron spaced from the frame.
apron spacer.jpg
apron spacer.jpg (52.25 KiB) Viewed 1241 times
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
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Re: '27 Radiator Apron

Post by Allan » Mon May 13, 2019 8:24 pm

I struggle to see the relevance of the collar, other than it serves as a receiver for the crank handle spring. It is not a spacer to keep the apron away from the frame as that is done by the machine screw which fixes it to the spring yoke. It is not really a receiver for the crank handle spring either, as all the T's preceding its introduction had no need of it.
It does serve to make fitting the apron more difficult, as the hole in the end is rarely where it aligns with the handle and the pan snout. It is a PITA.
Am I missing something?

Allan from down under.

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Re: '27 Radiator Apron

Post by DanTreace » Mon May 13, 2019 9:35 pm

Don't think Ford would have added the collar, unless it does provide some purpose. Acts as a the receiver for the hand crank spring to compress when hand cranking.

But not all aprons have the machine screw, that is only a '26-'27 thing, the aprons for the earlier high radiators have the collar, but not the hole.
But must have caused some rattles, as the Improved Car apron (3977-C, with trim strip, -E no strip but with slots for it, and -F no slots) added that machine screw.....but Ford didn't eliminate the collar.....so it must have been a good reason :D

IMG_4847 (1000x750).jpg

These '23-'25 aprons (3977) are also different dimension in height, as the later Improved Car with the hole for the machine screw, you can't just drill one of these early ones for a hole, it won't fit to the Improved car engine mount well, as the crank handle is in wrong spot, the Improved Car has higher hood shelf construction that requires the later 3977-C, E, F.
IMG_4845 (640x480).jpg
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


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Re: '27 Radiator Apron

Post by Alan Long » Tue May 14, 2019 8:03 am

I have an official Technical Bulletin that was released by Ford after mid January 1926 that reads,,,,

“Fig. 128 illustrates the new design Radiator Front Apron No. 40111-X. This change was made by stamping a Hole “A”
below the crank handle hole, through which Screw T-8004, Fig. 129 is inserted into Hole “B” in crankcase Front Bearing and
Spring Clip Assembly No. 3075-D, Fig 130.
This change was made in order to keep the Radiator Apron from vibrating on the front of the crankcase front Bearing”

If anyone would like I can scan and email a copy of the Bulletin directly to them.
Alan


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Re: '27 Radiator Apron

Post by Jim, Sr. » Tue May 14, 2019 11:54 pm

All radiator aprons with a hole for the screw are not for 1926-27 cars. 3977-F has the hole, but it is for 1926-27 TT trucks.
The radiator apron started in1924-25 as part 3977
In 1925 Ford came out with an accessory nickel plated radiator and apron. that apron is 3977-B. (See Bruce's Black Book, page 566)(It is listed on Ford Letter, April 30, 1925)
3977-C is the 1926-27 apron with the nickel strip and the screw hole.
3977-D is just the nickel plated trim strip.
3977-E is the 1926-27 painted apron with the screw hole, but without the strip.
3977-F is for 1926-27 TT trucks. (factory #TT-8016) It is the same as 3977 used in 1924-25. with the added screw hole for securing the apron to the front engine mount/spring clamp.
Here are photos of 3977-C, on top. 3977-F in the middle. And 3977-B on the bottom.
Attachments
DSC06749.JPG
DSC06751.JPG
DSC06750.JPG
1922 Coupe , 1926 Touring

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