MTFCA Forum

Not supposed to be welded this way, is it?

No it is not- there should be a latch there or a mating tab, depending on style of rim, but not welded.

The valve is awfully close to the split, is it a T rim?

Check this earlier post. It has different methods of what methods were used to secure the rim. https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/1 ... 94060.html

It looks like a less-than-wonderful repair of a broken rim. Actually, it might be okay to use that way. These type split rims are NOT the infamous "widowmakers" of old. With a bit of care PROVIDED they are not dangerously warped, they can be safely used without a functioning latch. That may not be the popular advice, but I ran several rims for many thousands of miles with no latches.
The main caution is when first airing up a freshly mounted (or otherwise flat) tire, air it up slowly at first making certain that the ends of the rim line up and butt together properly. Once you get to about 15 to 20 psi, the way the inside pressure pushes the rim inward, the ends are held under tremendous pressure to stay together! (The tire beads hold them lined up, the pressure holds them together!) Even IF the rim did somehow manage to pop apart, about all the damage it could do would be to destroy a good innertube. No rim pieces could go flying with enough force to do much harm (as long as some small piece of gravel doesn't get caught perfectly within the airstream?).

To prove this to myself many years ago? I mounted a bad rim and tube onto a good tire and aired it up to about 20 psi. Then I tried for some time to beat it apart with a heavy sledge hammer! Couldn't do it. So even a fully aired up spare not mounted on a wheel should be safe to handle. And a latchless rim mounted on a wheel is in no way less safe than one with a latch!

Of course, the better thing to do is repair or replace the missing or broken latch properly! "Properly" depends upon which type latch it had originally.

Wayne
You mentioned something that I’ve thought about a few times when finding a decent split rim but a broken latch not working.
in my mind a split rim could be welded together at the split and be used that way. I think you would have to be carful with tire installation and removal because the rim material isn’t that heavy.
Just a thought but it seems that it might work. Thoughts? And why didn’t Ford make a 21” solid rim instead of going with the split.

John kuehn wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:52 pm

Wayne
You mentioned something that I’ve thought about a few times when finding a decent split rim but a broken latch not working.
in my mind a split rim could be welded together at the split and be used that way. I think you would have to be carful with tire installation and removal because the rim material isn’t that heavy.
Just a thought but it seems that it might work. Thoughts? And why didn’t Ford make a 21” solid rim instead of going with the split.

Dont.
Non clincher tires do not stretch like clinchers.
They work on wire wheels because of the center drop. Like all modern rims.
Fix up a latch or carefully run without a latch.

Thanks for the information and it makes sense now that I think about it.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:25 pm

John kuehn wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:52 pm

Wayne
You mentioned something that I’ve thought about a few times when finding a decent split rim but a broken latch not working.
in my mind a split rim could be welded together at the split and be used that way. I think you would have to be carful with tire installation and removal because the rim material isn’t that heavy.
Just a thought but it seems that it might work. Thoughts? And why didn’t Ford make a 21” solid rim instead of going with the split.

Dont.
Non clincher tires do not stretch like clinchers.
They work on wire wheels because of the center drop. Like all modern rims.
Fix up a latch or carefully run without a latch.

I ran my Canadian '26 Touring rim (split style, but different latch design) for years with a bum latch and the rim ends welded together.

It was welded after the tire was mounted and aired up — a few little tack welds to keep everything in alignment, and not enough heat to affect the rubber. My plan was to grind off the welds if I had to fix a flat (back in the shop). Never happened, I ran that tire until it wore out and fixed the latch properly when the replacement tires were installed.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:25 pm

John kuehn wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 11, 2023 8:52 pm

Wayne
You mentioned something that I’ve thought about a few times when finding a decent split rim but a broken latch not working.
in my mind a split rim could be welded together at the split and be used that way. I think you would have to be carful with tire installation and removal because the rim material isn’t that heavy.
Just a thought but it seems that it might work. Thoughts? And why didn’t Ford make a 21” solid rim instead of going with the split.

Dont.
Non clincher tires do not stretch like clinchers.
They work on wire wheels because of the center drop. Like all modern rims.
Fix up a latch or carefully run without a latch.

That is the main point. The common bead will NOT stretch enough to go onto or off a non-drop-center rim!
The funny thing is, that a number of years ago I picked up a 20 inch tire to use as a "roller" under my Paige which is not a running car. The tire looked fine. I put it on a rim, aired it up, and put it on the car. I needed to roll the car from one building to another. Part way there, the tire expanded and blew off the rim destroying a new innertube! Turned out someone had previously forced the tire off or onto a rim not designed for that. The wires inside the bead were broken by a hydraulic tire machine. Once mounted and aired up, the bead simply and slowly stretched out again because the wires inside could not do their job and hold it in. The 20 inch bead stretched out to over 22 inches! Two days later it shrank back down to a good looking 20 inch size again. I then destroyed the tire so that it couldn't manage to fool anyone else.
The funny thing about it, is that I have run into several other cases of tires being ruined by modern tire machines stretching them until the wires inside the bead break.

Chris Branford's method is a reasonable temporary solution. If a rim was warped enough that there was a chance it could come apart? (Rather unlikely?) I would even maybe recommend tack welds carefully done. Generally though, I wouldn't bother. Mounted on a wheel which itself will lock the rim in place? A rim failure is no more likely than a very good and properly latched rim.

Thank you! Now I can’t wait to pull and examine the other three!!

Just yesterday, I dropped off a Ford 21" split rim at the local metal recycling, along with some other junk. The rim had the correct tab rivited to the rim that is secured by a round headed bolt into the opposite end of the rim. The reason for trashing it was, it had about a two inch crack running longways with the side of rim. I thought this was the only flaw so I took it to a local club member to weld. The rim had a lot of crusty rust in the bottom (valley) of the rim which he cleaned out. After he removed the rust, he discovered at least two places where the rim had actually rusted through the metal, in addition to the known rim crack. We both decided that the rim wasn't worth repairing as we now knew of at least 3 places to repair and there might be other places that had been covered by the crusty rust that might be so thin as to cause future problems.

I would like to get a few bad rims really cheap. I have a couple really old tires I want to mount on rims and air up to maybe ten pounds just to to preserve and display them. A few of the tires I have are 20 inch rims, but even a twenty-one inch model T could be altered to work. Cut just over three inches off one end of the circle and they will pull in perfectly!

Anybody near me with rims they prefer to not scrap?