Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

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KellyJons
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Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by KellyJons » Sun Apr 30, 2023 11:20 pm

Hi folks, new here to the Model T world. Have some honest questions that I hope you can help me with.

I’ve noticed that many Model T Ford owners do a tremendous amount of long-distance driving with their vintage Fords. For instance, Dean Yoder and Steve Jelf, among others, regularly put hundreds, if not thousands, of miles a year on their Model T Fords. I have read through much of Steve’s blog and associated forum posts about his travels, and I am astounded at his willingness to hop into his roadster and drive rather astonishing distances.

I’m no stranger to long-distance driving and have traveled much of the US on both interstates and back roads in modern machinery. What gets me is that, even while traveling at or slightly above the posted speed limits, I am pretty much the slowest person on the road. I’m having a hard time getting my head around the idea of driving a Model T Ford, even on back roads, and not being run off the road 1000 times a day by high-speed drivers who close up on you at 30, 40, or even 50 miles an hour over your rate of speed, even on gravel roads!

And yet, obviously, Dean and Steve and many others are happily and even safely driving these long distances with what appears to be relative ease. What am I missing here? How does one determine the best roads to drive on and deal with the fact that you are in a vehicle that is traveling at half the speed or less of everything around you? Are there some secret techniques or preparations or advice, things like extra or flashing lights, or orange triangles or big signs, or…?

Am I making a big deal out of nothing? I’d like to join “the club” and also do some of this long-distance Model T Ford driving. These guys are doing incredible things!

Kelly

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Charlie B in N.J.
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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Charlie B in N.J. » Sun Apr 30, 2023 11:33 pm

Going through towns and cities can’t be helped and I’ll absolutely guarantee they are being hounded by those without time to spare. Wether real or imagined. Lightly inhabited back roads are a different story simply because nobody’s there. I had the three worst experiences driving a T (oddly enough) right after installing turn signals and stop lights. So much so that I flat out quit street driving and stuck to the development I live in. Big enough to drive around for half an hour or so without duplicating any route. That got old and I sold the car but I never drove on the street again.
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Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by FreighTer Jim » Mon May 01, 2023 12:06 am

Dean Yoder

That is who you need to search for
here on The MTFCA forum.


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Craig Leach » Mon May 01, 2023 1:02 am

Hi Kelly,
I have made some runs with my speedster from 120 to 200+ miles in a day. Yes speedsters can usualy go faster than regular T's. But that aside
The biggest issue I see with going any distance in a T is driver courtesy. First don't expect any from the people in modern cars. They live in a
different reality than we do. As far as I'm concerned the best safety equipment on a Model T is a good rear view mirror. If you have cars
stacking up behind you find a place to pull over. I know this is not always easy to do. Not in a blind up hill corner but when it's safe.
Most people will wave with all fingers if you do when they pass. I have seen T drivers back up 30+ cars behind them and not even think of
pulling over. That is illeagle in most states. And I have seen a state trooper threaten to have a T towed if they did it again. We are the minority
on the road and we need to share the road with them not the other way around. Some states have minimum speed limits that if they enforce
them would ban model T's from most roads in those states. I have heard of tours that are lead by a TT and never get over 20 MPH. on secondary
roads with a 45 MPH speed limit with a double yellow line. We are not governed by the same laws as farm equipment. The number of people
that want to ban us from the road is going up faster than the price of gas. Which is $5 + a gallon here. Sometimes our stuborn attitude is our
worst ememy.Damn I fell off my soap box again. I know I ramble on but please think about the number of times someone pasted you and gave
you a one finger salute.
Craig.


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Mon May 01, 2023 4:12 am

Been a few too many years for me, but I used to drive a lot of miles in my model Ts. Many of those miles were in speedsters which could run close to highway speeds. However, I also put thousands of miles in regular model Ts, same era non-Fords, and even a TT truck.

Most importantly as has already been said? Is pay very close attention to everything going on in front of you, just as close to what is behind you, and also a lot to either side of you! Try to keep an escape route in sight, but always be aware that others will try to block those from you.
BE POLITE! Allow faster cars to pass often and easily! Approach traffic lights slowly so that sudden changes do not entrap you into a messy entry into an intersection! NEVER forget that other people DO NOT understand your car's limitations for braking or acceleration.

Your safety is YOUR responsibility! Nobody else's!

Watch out for idiots wanting to take your picture!

And enjoy the drive!

And one more thing? If you really want to be safe? Buy a Subaru. But no car can connect you to the universe around you quite like a model T Ford!


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Plankhill » Mon May 01, 2023 5:54 am

Stay on as many rural dirt roads as you can find.

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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Humblej » Mon May 01, 2023 7:22 am

Kelly,
I agree with others, dirt roads are best for traffic and that is really the environment the model T was made for.

The worst are paved roads with limited or no passing opportunities, thats when other drivers are at their worst.

Freeways are out as most have a 45mph minimum speed limit.

Orange triangles, in many states, are only for vehicles manufactured for speeds under 25mph, so a TT yes, a T no, but so what, nobody seems to know what an orange triangle means.

When I was a kid 50 years ago and would drive my T, people would be kind and give me extra room, smiles, kind words, a honk and wave, or a thumbs up. Now, I am more likely to get a honk and a finger, passed on shoulder, cut off, and tailgated. Forget it, give me a dirt road where few dare to travel.
Last edited by Humblej on Mon May 01, 2023 8:46 am, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by TXGOAT2 » Mon May 01, 2023 7:41 am

You need rear view mirrors and you have to use them constantly. You have to stay out of other peoples' way. People will run right over a police cruiser stopped along a roadway with all lights flashing, and they will run right over you, regardless of what you are driving.

I drive a large diesel pickup over 55 miles every day of the week. I drive it at 60-65 MPH on the open road. I have to pull over for almost every other vehicle on the road. It's amazing how many people drive at high speeds, yet never learn how to pass another vehicle safely. I get out of their way. I usually come up behind them farther down the road, because they don't know how to use their vehicle and the road to make time.

Many people in modern cars have no idea of the realities of what they are doing when driving down the road in broad daylight at 100 feet a second. That's why so many of them crash, day in and day out.

You have to stay out of their way, no matter what you are driving. Car crashes are dangerous. There are no safe cars.

I heard this morning on the news that another car had driven off a 500 foot cliff. That's not what happened, of course. The "driver" did survive. The report did not mention whether he got good video on the way down, or if his telephone conversation was especially interesting or important.

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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon May 01, 2023 10:15 am

I won't repeat all my tips and opinions, as you've already read them on my website, but...

I agree with much of the advice so far, but I'm in the minority on one point. I grew up in Los Angeles traffic, so city driving doesn't scare me (though at times it does become pretty annoying). Driving a Model T through Kansas City, Chicago, Detroit, and some lesser urban centers, I haven't felt particularly endangered. The prime directive of Model T travel applies in both urban and rural settings: Avoid high speed traffic. That means no freeways or interstates, with a few rare exceptions. Cities have those high speed roads for sure, but they also have streets ("alternate routes") where the normal flow of traffic is within Model T range. In fact, going through Chicago on Harlem Avenue was too slow to suit me. Many miles of stop-and-crawl got pretty tiresome. If I go through the Third City again I'll try to find a less tedious route.

Getting philosophical, I think perhaps our attitude toward Model T travel depends on our world view in general. Some folks consider what could happen, and perceive dire peril at every turn. Others see disaster as possible but unlikely. One of my aunts used to fret that anybody in the family who was away from home might never return alive. But they always did.
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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon May 01, 2023 10:40 am

The fact that 330 million Americans do not all live near Plymouth Rock is testament that not everyone lives a life in fear. Steve Jelf sums it up quite well with
I think perhaps our attitude toward Model T travel depends on our world view in general
A thorough study of "T" accidents in the modern age will show that a great majority of multi-car accidents are survivable and it's the one-car mechanical failures that mostly do you in. So while you may be worried about "the other guy", it's really YOU who you should be worried about. Put your car in top shape, forgo non-FORD accessories on your suspension, pay attention, and have at it.

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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Oldav8tor » Mon May 01, 2023 1:11 pm

All good advice. I friend of mine who drives a lot of long distance recommends planning your route using google maps and the routing for bicycles. Word of warning...sometimes these routes will put you on trails designated bicycle only so pick the route that keeps you on roads.

Invest in good rearview mirrors. I have one on each side of the windshield and another strapped to the spare tire on the left running board.

In our area we sometimes have accidents where someone slams into the back of an Amish buggy. Often all the buggies have is a slow-moving vehicle sign and of course the buggies are black. If I know I'll be on some busier roads I have two magnetic amber flashers that I attach to the rear of the car in the hope that it will cause modern drivers to look up from their tiktok video and avoid a collision. So far it's worked.

Making sure your car is in good mechanical condition is a must....I'll go a step further and recommend auxiliary brakes (I have hydraulic rear discs). Being able to go is no good unless you can stop.

I have put 7600 miles on my car since August 2019. I've never been flipped off but then I live in a rural area. I watch for traffic backing up and pull over to let them pass. Some of them pass very slowly as the passenger is shooting video as they go by. My speed is always below 40, usually in the 33-35 mph range.
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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by TXGOAT2 » Mon May 01, 2023 1:22 pm

Keeping your car in good condition is a must. It's important that it reliabley delivers all the performance it is capable of. That doesn't mean you have to go full speed all the time, but you need to be able to rely on the car to perform within its design limits.

OTR truck drivers deal with a number of vehicle limits as compared to passenger car drivers, yet they travel the country day and night, in all weather, and have a respectable record as far as safety.

Choose a sensible route. Information is widely availble if you are not familiar with the area you're driving in. I prefer secondary roads to interstates. The scenery is better and the roadside stops are more interesting.

Most drivers on secondary roads seem to be saner and more courteous than the interstate crowd, too.

Stop-and-go driving is a tedious bore, for the most part, and hard on any vehicle, besides.
A great many accidents happen in rush hour stop and go situations. Avoid at any resonable cost.

An inexpensive navigation device can provide a lot of useful information, especially in unfamiliar territory. There's no good reason not to use one, and you need not permanently attach it to your car.

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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon May 01, 2023 2:02 pm

I'll go a step further and recommend auxiliary brakes...

Here in the relatively flat middle of the continent I've found the stock drive train adequate, but when I head for mountainous terrain I aim to have a Ruckstell or aux transmission with aux brakes. A mile or more of low pedal can get awfully tiresome.
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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Art M » Mon May 01, 2023 2:30 pm

Scott,
Would you identify the four gentlemen in the picture that your above posting. I think there are s lot of readers who would appreciate it.

Art Mirtes


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by BUSHMIKE » Mon May 01, 2023 2:58 pm

Art,
You beat me to it. I would love to put a face to name.


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by bdtutton » Mon May 01, 2023 3:25 pm

Hello,
I have only been driving a Model T for a couple of years and I have had pretty good luck by following some basic rules when taking trips.
*Number one is to plan your route on back roads. I sometimes travel on main roads where the speed limit is 35 mph or less. Avoid long steep grades if possible too...because you will feel like a bicycle slowly going up long steep hills.
*Number two is to watch your mirrors and pull over in a safe spot if a line of cars start forming behind you. Sometimes it is OK when there is just one because someone in the car is probably taking a video of your car.
* Number three is good brake lights and turn signals because no one knows what an arm signal is.
* Number four is to plan ahead - there are not many gas stations along the back roads.
.
Good luck...


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Scott_Conger » Mon May 01, 2023 3:35 pm

Names? Gladly.

left to right:

friend/passenger of George Akin, who's name I cannot recall...I'm sorry for that
Dr. Hobart "George" Akin - MTFCA Vice President
Dean Yoder - Model T Traveler Extraordinaire
Myself (the handsome one)
Hanging out in good company.png
Taken at our cabin in WY, on their way home from MTFCA National Tour, I believe it was the summer of 2021(?) and we were suffering from a terrible summer of fires...in fact they arrived at one of the few times our place could be seen from my road as a significant fire was burning just a mile or two away and could be seen jumping from ridge to ridge at night.

Previous night was spent in the Sunlight Basin in the Beartooth Mtns after traversing Yellowstone NP. They picked up water for the "T"s and themselves and we had an all-to-short visit that AM as they headed on their way East. By this time, Dean's radiator was sporting a water-bottle/radiator cap that was doing yeoman's service capturing and recycling condensate following the loss of the entire neck from the radiator.

This trip was chronicled in the MFTCA magazine. A few more pictures for the curious or interested..
Inspecting everything.png
More inspecting.png
Dean's radiator fix.png
Dean Yoder.png
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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by BUSHMIKE » Mon May 01, 2023 3:44 pm

Fantastic pics! Thanx Scott.


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Norman Kling » Mon May 01, 2023 4:37 pm

Try to do your driving during daylight hours. Get a good newer paper map and designate your route in advance. Avoid using GPS because it sometimes directs people by the most direct route and you need to pre plan the route. Even, perhaps, highlight it on a paper map. There is only one place in our county where it would be a very long detour to avoid a freeway. That is between San Diego and Escondido across Lake Hodges. The road is flat in that location with an on ramp immediately before the lake and an off ramp immediately after the lake. So I get on at the last on ramp and keep to the right and go as fast as the T will go and then get off right after the lake. So far, I have had no problem there.
When I am going uphill sometimes there is a slow vehicle lane which ends at the top of the hill. I use that lane and try to plan things so I can pull into the regular lane just before the end of the passing lane. That way I can be moving in high. Unfortunately, sometimes rude people slow down next to me to ask what my car is or to take a picture and I come to the end of the lane and have to stop. Then I can't get into high gear from there to the top of the hill.
Other places without a slow lane, I usually do not pull over until I reach the top of the hill, for the same reason.
Last Thursday we took a drive through the mountains, about 130 miles for us including the drive to and from the starting point. We were together in the club. No problem. We try to avoid rush hour and drive during the week when the sightseers are not so many.
Norm

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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon May 01, 2023 11:06 pm

Note that George's 1914 pick-em-up has two spare wheels, a front and a rear. In my book this is better than carrying tubes folded under the seat. I've adopted the same practice, but without the weight of extra wheels. I carry a front tire and a rear tire. The tubes are in the tires, with just enough air to keep them there.

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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by John Codman » Tue May 02, 2023 10:35 am

To Charlie B in NJ : I'm pretty much where you are. Here in SW Florida the roads are mostly flat, straight, and posted for 45mph or more. When I drive my T, I normally drive it down the dead-end side street next to my house, then turn around and drive back home. That's about 1 1/2 miles. I drove it often when I lived in Massachusetts because I could almost always find a 35 mph back road. It's been six months since I last started it. In fairness, my wife was having some very serious health problems for a part of that time, and driving the T was not in my schedule.


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by TXGOAT2 » Tue May 02, 2023 11:57 am

I'd want to drive father than that, even in warm Florida weather. Ten miles or more, each trip, whenever possible. The car needs time to warm up, dry out the crankcase, and recharge the battery, if present. Using up some fuel to prevent ethanol sickness is good, too. In some areas, early Sunday morning traffic is often fairly light. A T in good shape in level, low altitude country can do 40 MPH with no ill effect.


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by John Codman » Tue May 02, 2023 1:04 pm

I agree that 1 1/2 miles is too short. When I do take the T out, I try to do most of the lubing while the car is warming up. The only through street that I can take to get anywhere is posted at 45. Everybody drives 50-55 mph. the road is flat and absolutely straight for eight miles. My T's "sweet spot" is almost exactly 35 mph. I suspect that the engine is exactly the same as it was when Ford installed it in March of 1927. The only things that have changed is the Vaporizer carb has been replaced with an NH, I have had the head off for an inspection, and it has a new original-style timer. I take it easy with the old girl. Sadly, I'm beginning to think about finding the old girl another caretaker. I am a car guy, so I'll probably just finish the hot rod.


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Les Schubert » Tue May 02, 2023 3:13 pm

Driving on the highway I drive on the shoulder if at all practical. I’ve only been driving my 27 roadster for 48 years and many thousands of miles.


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by bdtutton » Tue May 02, 2023 5:44 pm

I have several friends that live along busy roads with 55 mph speed limits. They really like it because they can take their modern car out and race to work or to the store. Owning an antique car in one of those areas would be dangerous and frustrating. My wife does not know this, but when we were looking for a new house I only let her look at houses that were in good places to drive antique cars. It is just over 12 miles from my house to my office and almost all of it is smooth, low traffic roads with low speed limits. There is also a gas station half way between my house and my office in case I need some gas or a snack. If the weather was better I could drive my Model T to work every day. As for now I have to settle for sunny days. (1914 Touring)
.

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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by TRDxB2 » Tue May 02, 2023 6:47 pm

Last year 10 German Model T enthusiasts traveled coast to coast in the USA in 5 Model T' worth reading their experiences ,
Traveled June 8th to July 10 2022


Part 1 https://mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php? ... t+to+coast
Part 2 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=29823&p=231890&hili ... +2#p231890
Part 3 viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30091&p=231900&hili ... +2#p231900
--
--
Note the elevation chart is not meant to match the destination map changes as they traveled
Attachments
Travel chart.png
Travel chart.png (639.4 KiB) Viewed 5143 times
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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by DHort » Tue May 02, 2023 7:07 pm

Dean drives 45-50 mph and has a GPS that takes him on the back roads.

Steve carries a road atlas, and uses state maps to find the best route.

My last trip I used google set to bicycle routes, and had to switch to regular roads for a while whenever I ran in to bike paths.

What has been your longest tour in a T? Practice going 100 miles a day. Then 150 miles. Then 200 miles. If you trust your car to do that you can think about a long trip. Carry all the tools you might need if you break down. If you have a touring your trunk will be full! Remember that there is help all over the country. One time I needed some help, and within hours Dallas Landers told me to come to his shop the next day and all was good. Turns out he was less than 10 miles away from my hotel.

I have been on the interstate, but not by choice. No fun going 30 when others are going 80. I have no problem on a 55mph highway. If a car comes up behind me I go to the shoulder if it is paved and wave him to pass me. My car only goes 30-35mph. Do not make plans in advance to get from this hotel to the next hotel. You may not get that far that day. You have to wing it or sleep in the car. I cover the car with a tarp and have a tent with me.


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Luxford » Tue May 02, 2023 7:24 pm

In 2008 I shipped my Model T to America to drive to Richmond IN for the Centennial. I picked it up in Los Angeles and drove around LA for a week visiting friends. I stayed on the streets not the freeways and it was far nicer than driving around Sydney Australia.
We then drove east via Barstow and had to drive across the desert on the freeway to Flagstaff. No problems (except the E timer failed) tried the old Route 66 but it is so bad we lasted only a few miles. After 3 months driving east to Nashville and the Centennial we left the T in the MTFCA Museum came back in 2011 and drove west back through Yellowstone NP and on to Pincer Creek and Calgary Alberta. We then went west to Seattle and down the west coast back to LA. total 10,000 miles
Only had a few times when I wished I was on another road. Once in Missouri when they were resurfacing a road and it was one lane each way and it was several miles where I could not do anything except drive with everyone behind me. The other in Washington state driving north past Seattle, where I was instructed to drive on the freeway. It was 5 or 6 lanes wide and I stayed in the right lane and kept getting forced into the exit lane. I just went down the exit and found the entrance back up onto the freeway. As there were many lanes no one had trouble getting past me.

Other than that we just kept on secondary roads where ever possible, never a problem had a few flat tires because of the lousy tires we have had to put up with ran out of gas twice because of strong headwinds but people nearly always were considerate and often helpful when they found we were from Australia. I have driven Model T's for 60 years, I think it is a problem for new owners not familiar enough with what a Model T is capable of. I have know many Model T owners who have done cross country trips without any problems. At that same time T drivers in Australia did a circumnavigation of the continent. I note some are heading for Eastern Europe and Hungary next year, they won't be thinking how hard it will be just how much fun.

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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Steve Jelf » Wed May 03, 2023 12:23 am

Dave is correct in saying I've been using an atlas, but the Rand McNally style of highway atlas from Walmart is only a supplement because it can't show all the local roads. A state map is the same, only worse. Some folks like Delorme atlases. They do show secondary roads, but leave a lot of them unlabeled. Google satellite view shows all the roads, but often calls them by an official name not used in the real world. If Google calls a road H-22 but all the signs say River Road, that's not helpful. My actual travel atlas has been a notebook with printouts of county road maps. Those do show all the roads. The limitation of that approach lies in the sheer volume of material. If I printed out all 105 Kansas counties, all 100 North Carolina counties, all 84 Michigan counties, etc., I would need a trailer just to haul around all the paper. So I am currently assembling a flash drive atlas containing all the available county road maps I can find.

adams.pdf
(4.62 MiB) Downloaded 39 times
A Wisconsin county map.
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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Model T Ron » Wed May 03, 2023 5:42 am

My 1915 Touring is well sorted and has a WarFord along with rear brakes so when driving on back roads I hold around 40 and seem to do just fine.....my car will go over 50 but to me that's not safe as a T can not react under speeds that fast :roll: :roll: :roll: . Some people get upset and pass me but many just follow and look at the car. Sometimes a guy on a bike will ride along side me and give a thumbs up. For the occasional A$$ I just try to pull a little to the right and wave them on when it's safe to pass. Over time I have become less worried about modern cars as most people are amazed to see a T on the road......that said I do not go into situations with heavy traffic intentionally but I do not panic when I see modern cars. Everything in life is a risk but I drive safe and enjoy my car. The thought of only driving in a subdivision is unthinkable to me as I got my car to drive it. I also have a Model A and that does hold 55 with a Mitchel OD so its less of an issue but the T is by far much more fun to drive :lol: :lol: :lol: .

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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by TWrenn » Wed May 03, 2023 9:26 am

Just get in and go! :lol: Sure, you need to be vigilant about traffic, stay off of Interstates...duuuhhhh....but "normal" paved highways have hardly ever been an issue for me, sure I do most my driving on nice paved country roads, county type roads if you will, a few times on state and U.S. highways, there's always gonna be the crackpot in a hurry, you just get used to watching for them in your mirrors. Rare, but occasionally on a "4-Laner" (not an interstate) but those are often safer! Sometimes the most aggravating are the folks who will follow you for miles looking your car over when they had a chance to pass safely, then finally deciding it's time to "move on" and take a chance on a no passing zone! I move far to the right when I see a car wants to pass, to help them see around me and give 'em a little extra space if needed. Don't over think it. Enjoy the ride. I drive a good 3,000 miles and more between my 3 cars every year.


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Scott_Conger » Wed May 03, 2023 10:36 am

This is all good stuff and enjoyable reading, but I suspect our original requestor with a single posting and no response was just another BOT. Hopefully I'll be proved wrong, but am not holding my breath.
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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Steve Jelf » Wed May 03, 2023 12:52 pm

I suppose it's possible that a troll would study up on Dean and me, or that a Bot would be programmed to do so, but it seems unlikely. It strikes me as pointless. But, of course, a lot of stuff people do online is pointless. :D
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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by KellyJons » Wed May 03, 2023 1:56 pm

Hey fellas, Kelly here.

No, I’m not a bot or a troll, just a very, very busy guy who hasn’t had a good chance to get back to the Forum and leave a follow-up comment!

I do very much appreciate all of the responses to my original questions. I was beginning to despair when I considered the capabilities of a Model T and whether or not it would be something that I would want in my life. You guys have convinced me that I’m on the right track and that a Model T is definitely a machine I could enjoy driving here in semi-rural Northeast Ohio and for much longer distances.

In fact, I did send an introductory email to Steve a week or so ago and mentioned to him that I would like to drive a Model T from my hometown of Chardon, Ohio to a telescope maker’s convention in Springfield, Vermont within the next year or two. So yes, I’m serious when I say that I want to join “the long-distance Model T driving club.”

More to follow later… But I need to get back to building a deck for my neighbor!

Kelly


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Scott_Conger » Wed May 03, 2023 2:02 pm

Kelly

let me welcome you to the affliction! Wise of you to get input to this sort of thing to learn from good advice rather than bad experience.

Early on, I was sure you were the real deal, but as time went on and not hearing from you, I lost faith. Very glad to see you joining the fraternity. It's a load of fun.
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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by TWrenn » Wed May 03, 2023 2:07 pm

Kelly's biggest obstacle is that it's usually winter there til June!! :lol: :lol: Heart of the good ol' Ohio snowbelt!!
In my neck of the woods they close schools when there's only 2" of snow on the road, for Chardon it takes 2 FEET!! They know how to deal with it! :lol:


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by KellyJons » Wed May 03, 2023 2:19 pm

Yes, our average annual snowfall is a bit over 12 feet!

Isn’t there something about those skinny Model T tires being good in the snow? 😀

Kelly

ps - it snowed here this morning…


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by BUSHMIKE » Wed May 03, 2023 4:04 pm

Kelly,
Your biggest fear should be of being overtaken and hit from the rear by an Amish buggy on date night😉


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by DHort » Wed May 03, 2023 4:38 pm

Model T tires work great in the snow. They make fun donuts as long as beat the salt trucks.

Any other questions, ask away. No question is a dumb question if you do not know the answer.

Lot of good advice from many on this forum and on FB.


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by KellyJons » Wed May 03, 2023 4:56 pm

I know it may seem sacrilegious to some, but I do plan to drive my Model T every nice day that I can, even in the winter. As long as the roads are clear, I’m driving. I’m from Chardon, Ohio, and the cold doesn’t bother me much at all.

Speaking of which, are heated seats possible in a Model T? I seldom run the heat in my Subaru, because the heated seats are good enough…

Kelly

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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by walber » Wed May 03, 2023 7:11 pm

Heated seats are doable. That assumes of course that you have a battery and charging system compatible with the heating elements you want to use. Probably need to use 12 volt units as I doubt if there are good 6 volt options. I rode in a T speedster last week that had heated seats. Pretty nice on a somewhat brisk day.

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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by TWrenn » Wed May 03, 2023 7:38 pm

walber wrote:
Wed May 03, 2023 7:11 pm
Heated seats are doable. That assumes of course that you have a battery and charging system compatible with the heating elements you want to use. Probably need to use 12 volt units as I doubt if there are good 6 volt options. I rode in a T speedster last week that had heated seats. Pretty nice on a somewhat brisk day.

Not to dissuade nor argue, I agree they're "doable" however it would take one heckuva sized battery let alone charging system to keep up with the load. Electric resistance heat is well, an electric hog!! :lol:


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Rich P. Bingham » Wed May 03, 2023 7:59 pm

:shock: The prospect of retrofitting heated seats in a Model T just took the sphere of currently possible alterations and modifications to a whole new level. There should be an award for these "improvements", something like the Stynowski for the purists. :roll:

My suggestion ? There was a reason for the popularity of raccoon coats in the sainted days of yore. :lol:
Get a horse !


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by BUSHMIKE » Wed May 03, 2023 8:08 pm

A hydronic system with a very small 6v circulating pump would be pretty easy.


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by KellyJons » Wed May 03, 2023 9:36 pm

“ The prospect of retrofitting heated seats in a Model T just took the sphere of currently possible alterations and modifications to a whole new level. There should be an award for these "improvements", something like the Stynowski for the purists.”

Please elaborate, because I don’t know what that means. “Stynowski?”

Maybe one man’s heated seats are another man’s raccoon coat… 😃 Years ago, I had a 57 VW beetle that I fitted with heated seats, and that was the only heat that I had for nearly 100,000 miles of northern winters. It was heavenly. Certainly, heated seats seem to be a more direct application of warmth than a manifold heater, and would prove more efficient at keeping you warm in an open car, especially with a lap robe.

Sorry to be rocking the boat so early in my forum career! 😂

Kelly


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by TXGOAT2 » Wed May 03, 2023 10:11 pm

The best way to heat a T would be a hot water heater. That would require a water pump and thermostat. Some vehicles used gasoline heaters. They're very effective. Lack of room in a Model T limits choices.


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by TXGOAT2 » Wed May 03, 2023 10:16 pm

Raccoon coats were very effective and usually quite stylish. The trouble is, most people today are larger, on average, than they were in the 1920s, and very few of today's Americans could hope to find a raccoon coat large enough to get into, let alone to wear in comfort. There many racoons around here, but I don't recall ever seeing one anywhere near six feet tall.


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by KellyJons » Wed May 03, 2023 10:24 pm

“ … very few of today's Americans could hope to find a raccoon coat large enough to get into, let alone to wear in comfort. There many racoons around here, but I don't recall ever seeing one anywhere near six feet tall.”



Now that’s funny! 😀 Well done!

Kelly


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by BHarper » Wed May 03, 2023 10:31 pm

Hi Kelly Jons,

I applaud your desire to undertake long distance touring. Other posters here have offered good advice regarding the necessity to put your car in very good condition to make it a paragon of dependability. It is often said that the more time one spends with their car in the shop yields less time spent with the car at the side of the road.

In addition to having a car in which you have complete confidence, you also need to have confidence in your abilities to deal successfully with any mechanical problems which might manifest themselves.

You asked about how well the skinny tires on a Model T perform in the snow and I can tell you that if they can get a "bite" in the snow they do alright. Hard packed snow may present a challenge unless chains are mounted on the tires.


This road was a bit slippery and I did wish that I had mounted my Weeds before I ventured out.

199158.jpg

You state your desire to drive your Model T during the winter and "Maybe one man’s heated seats are another man’s raccoon coat…"
HEATED SEATS

HEATED SEATS

Heavy Sigh. (Looks down and shakes head from side to side.)

I am compelled to ask, Are you wanting the Full Model T Experience or just interested in Model T Lite?
If that sounds a bit harsh I do apologise. I am one of those "In for a penny, in for a pound" type of guys.

This picture was taken of me and my runabout in the middle of February. I had driven from my home in Keene, NH to Tamworth, NH for a Model T Snowmobile meet. The temperature never rose above 28 degrees and I was completely comfortable in my layers. The trip totaled 225 miles. The car gave me no trouble.

16473281_356558638076140_8849894271387503640_n.jpg


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by DHort » Wed May 03, 2023 10:36 pm

Just google Ed Archer Model T raccoon coat


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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by KellyJons » Wed May 03, 2023 11:33 pm

<laughing> I was just askin’ ‘bout heated seats, BHarper… nothing more than curious. I do appreciate your comments, though.

I doubt if I would ever even _consider_ installing them in my own Model T, because I too would want “The Full Model T Experience.” (Whatever that means… I’m sure there are lots of different opinions… does adding _anything_ to a stock Model T as delivered from the factory dilute The Experience?)

Frankly, I seldom even run the heated seats in my Subaru. I live in Northeast Ohio… remember, “six months of winter, every year.” LOTS of cold and snow! I wear long-johns and layers 6 months a year, basically… we are used to the cold. 28 degrees feels warm to me. I would not even have on a coat at that temperature… and would probably still have my sleeves rolled up to the elbows…

I know a LOT of vintage car drivers who have installed heated seats in their old Jeeps, Beetles, and Model A Fords, though… not everyone, especially as they get older, can be so Stoic and get by with just more layers of clothing. If they want to drive in the winter, they need at least a little help with the heat.

If I understand correctly, plenty of after-market heaters were available for vintage cars when they were new. There were even manifold heaters for Model T Fords, though I can’t see how they would have been of much use in the open cars.

Maybe it’s just a matter of degrees (pardon the pun), but I don’t personally see much difference between a manifold heater or water heat and heated seats. I could be wrong (please do set me straight if I am not thinking clearly), but to me, they are all just different ways of keeping the driver and passengers warm. All are straying into “ Model T Lite” territory a bit, perhaps? Along with all the thousands of other aftermarket accessories that were available for the Model T up to ‘27 and beyond to make the driver’s life a little easier or more comfortable…

😀 Again, my apologies if this seems like I am “rocking the boat” somewhat… just trying to figure it all out.

Kelly

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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Steve Jelf » Thu May 04, 2023 1:12 am

I doubt that any kind of heater would make a lot of difference in an open car. I've read that with side curtains on, or in a closed car, just removing the top floorboard warms the inside pretty well. I haven't tried it, but it makes sense that the radiator acting as a large heater core would provide plenty of warm air.
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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by TXGOAT2 » Thu May 04, 2023 9:05 am

J.C. Whitney used to sell a "bus heater". It was a square box about 10" X10" with a big heater core and a multi-speed fan inside. If such a thing is still available, it easily could be attached to a wooden floorboard for seasonal use. That would provide plenty of clean heat for a roadster with side curtains, and two of them would would probably be overkill for a touring car with side curtains. You'd need a 190 F thermostat and an effective water pump. For most Ts, a plywood floorboard could be made up with studs that would allow quick installation/removal of the heater unit or units. Windshield defrosting could be rigged up. An auxiliary battery or upgraded power source would likely be needed to power the fan(s) for any length of time.

Old Buicks and some other cars had excellent underseat heaters that mounted through the floorboard. A handy person could build something along those lines to provide heat in a Model T without losing a lot of interior room. A belt-driven generator or alternator would be needed for running an effective blower or blowers for any length of time.

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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by walber » Thu May 04, 2023 3:11 pm

I've never been a fan of exhaust manifold heaters wanting to blow fumes into the interior of the car. Smell bad and potentially dangerous if the exhaust leaks. They can help warm things up though if you want the vintage experience.

I have pulled the top floorboard in my speedster and it does help the feet and legs when it's really cold out. Probably smelly in a closed car but . . .

If you have a 12 volt system and alternator, there are a variety of inexpensive electric heater/defrost units available. It's not really a T anymore anyway so you might as well be comfy.

I put a hot water heater in my A and a buddy did one in his T coupe - small heater core and little electric computer fans in a case about 2 1/2" high by 12 wide and 8 deep. Heater unit was about $40 on eBay. Fan is 12 volt but very low draw and I got a small voltage booster for less than $10 online. Works fine and non-destructive. One of the very few excuses I find for putting a water pump on a stock Model T. All easily undone if you or the next owner want to.

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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by babychadwick » Wed May 31, 2023 9:46 am

I grew up driving my T in northern CA all around the bay area and sierras. Yes, it was a speedster but running a stock T head. The important thing isnt brakes or gearing but to always leave yourself an out. The brakes on modern cars keep getting more and more impressive yet everyday if you are driving you will come across an accident where they were "inadequate" just like in a T . . .It isn't the brakes fault, it's the drivers for not leaving themselves an out. Properly adjusted bands will allow you to lock up a wheel/wheels on a T just as easy or more so than aux brakes. Of course doing down a steep washboard road and looking out and seeing a wheel spinning backward as it bounces is a unique experience.

Once you have have a mindset of giving yourself room then it becomes a question of how do you become less of a nuisance on the road. That is easiest with gearing which will allow you that extra speed on the flat or added safety climbing or descending. A more powerful engine may get you to your rpm limit faster but the "limit" is still there.

Longer travel/trips can be trying if you try to carry all the tools you might need but can be reduced greatly if you figure set of sockets, combination wrenches, (doubling up on 1/2, 9/16, 5/8, 11/16, 3/4), a selection of pliers, screwdrivers, and some vise grips. All of which can fit in a small bag, another is your spare wire, nuts, bolts, tape, cotter keys, etc usually fits in a small can. You can't carry everything so improvising with what you have may be the biggest tool in your box.
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First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1923 touring and a few projects
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
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Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Steve Jelf » Wed May 31, 2023 1:41 pm

Longer travel/trips can be trying if you try to carry all the tools you might need but can be reduced greatly...

Ah, what to take. What to take? Whenever that question comes up there are folks who suggest so much stuff it's almost a fully equipped shop. You can almost imagine them pouring new Babbitt by the side of the road. At the other end of the scale are the folks who say you only need to take a phone and a credit card. In my book both are impractical. I don't fancy cramming my little runabout full of the bulk and weight of stuff I'm unlikely ever to need. And if you break down way out in the sticks, help by phone (if there is phone service) may be expensive and slow in coming. Even something as simple as dealing with a flat tire can take several hours If you're not prepared to do it yourself.

I like the list Dan Treace published in the Model T Times. I copied it and added or subtracted a few things to make my own check list.


The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring

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Will_Vanderburg
Posts: 811
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:59 pm
First Name: William
Last Name: Vanderburg
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 2
Location: Jackson, NJ
MTFCA Number: 28382

Re: Safe long-distance driving… how do they do it?

Post by Will_Vanderburg » Wed May 31, 2023 3:33 pm

I live in New Jersey. 59,000 people just in my township of 100 square miles. 4th largest township out of 565 and the 1st largest township in Ocean County out of 33 townships.

I drive mine everywhere I can go without using an interstate or a US Highway (although sometimes that cannot be avoided on US routes). I’ve had idiots cut me off, pass in no passing zones, pull out in front of me, you name it. I’ve driven in daylight, nighttime and roaring downpours.

You have to be constantly vigilant watching other drivers who seemingly cannot see a seven foot tall car coming towards them. I live on a VERY busy road. Everyday for 12 years, someone blew through my son’s bus stop. People are just in too much of a hurry to care.
William L Vanderburg

1925 Touring
1922 Center Door Sedan

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