roadster pickup holes in cab for turtle back?

[70boss2wv]

I'm looking to buy a roadster pickup. I'm trying to learn as much as I can before buying one.

I'm looking for pictures of what this area behind the cab would look like on a roadster pickup that came from the factory as a pickup vs. a roadster with a trunk.
I find it easy to think Ford wouldn't bother to make 2 different rear panels (one with holes,and one without), when all they had to do was to screw in a couple screws.
It would be great if there were any pictures of roadster pickups with no holes in the back of the cab for the turtle back?

So, I've been looking for pictures of this area
There's pics of a 27 with a lot of patina, that is hailed as very original, that has these holes.
There was a high dollar one sold at Barrett Jackson, that had bolts in the holes, and claimed to be a nut and bolt restoration.
I've yet to find any pics of a cab without these holes.
Does anyone have pics of a known original Pickup?

The other thing I learned was that the Pickup, and Fordor have 9 leave rear springs. (Don't know how many the other cars had, 8?) Any connection between the rear leaf count, and the holes would be most appreciated.

[Hap_Tucker]

Leonard,

Page 409 of Bruce McCalley's book "Model T Ford" shows the rear photo of the 1926-27 back of the front seat for a roadster that was fitted with a turtle deck. It has an embossed area on the back of the panel and holes for bolting the turtle deck to the front seat bucket.

The same page shows the same rear photo of the 1926-27 back of the front seat of a roadster pickup that came from the factory as a pickup. It does NOT have the embossed area on the back of the front seat and it does NOT have the holes for the turtledeck.

On page 404 Bruce shares: "There are two types of rear seat panels used on the [1926-27] Runabouts; one with embossed moldings to match the turtle deck, and one which does not have the embossing. One might presume the non-embossed type would have been supplied with the factory-built pickup."

Remember that any dealer would gladly install a pickup bed on a customer's 1926-27 roadster and make it into a roadster pickup.

I would GUESS and it is only a GUESS since I do not have any evidence to support or refute this idea: I suspect a customer could probably "order" a roadster with both the pickup bed and rear turtle deck so they could use it either way they desired. In that case it would have the holes in the back of the body to attach the turtle deck. There is evidence to support that in the 1909-10 time frame the customer could order a closed car and order an additional open car body to swap out for the closed car body for summer use.

I'm off to mow the yard before it rains. I'll try to post the photos later. If you don't have a copy of Bruce's book -- and you are considering purchasing a Model T, I would highly recommend the book if you are interested in originality. Bruce's book is out of print but a digital version is still available.

If you are more interested in a good driver -- there are many combinations of parts from various years that will also give you good service. Ford designed it that way.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

[Les Schubert]

I am of the understanding that the pickups had “filler” pieces that went between the front of the box and back of the cab. Particularly if it was ordered as a pickup. Perhaps only in Canada

[DanTreace]

Have found this subject interesting, and believe now the very early Improved pickups may have had the 'plain' rear panel. But can't prove it with any Ford ref. docs.

Have had a few '26 runabouts, and they all have the curved boss to strengthen the rear panel on the body.

Here are pics, and one close up of a Nov.1925 mfg. runabout pickup. Was told this T was always a pickup, and it does indeed have the missing holes and captive nuts in the rear panels. Therefore this body could not have had a turtleneck installed, and all the decks have mounting holes for this spot.

rear edge tack strip.jpg (57.43 KiB) Viewed 5888 times

Note no holes in pillar.

Early 26 bed with stake at front.jpg (42.99 KiB) Viewed 5888 times

Another body, with holes in pillar, this one is unknown date, but has the early bed with front stake pocket at the body.

Ford factory photo, maybe prototype of the Improved Car runabout, showing how the pickup bed and deck can be interchanged. This is famous photo of the plain panel.

this restored one does have a plain panel....but may be fabricated? Don't know. (photo from the forum)

[DanTreace]

Les

As far as my knowledge, that 'filler' panel in the US was an added feature when the pickup bed was re-designed to have the front stake pockets moved back 7". The filler plate made the Delivery Unit look complete. . All the early beds with stake pockets at front edge have no signs of rivet heads that would have retained that filler plate.


Later bed, front take pocket back, filler plate.

Note the below early bed style '26 with stake pocket up front, and no filler plate. You can see the gap between the body and bed.

[rnwilliams]

I have researched this subject for several years for my 1926 Roadster Pickup I am building. I have read everything on the subject that I could find and talked to everyone I know that would talk to me including several people who have a, from the factory, Roadster Pickup. I have also looked at every picture I can find of all 1926 Roadsters. Although I can't prove it I firmly believe that the early 1926 Roadsters and what became Roadster Pickups, either from the factory or at the dealer, came with NO holes to mount the turtle deck. There is to much Picture evidence that this is true. There are several pictures of early 1926 roadsters without bolts holding the turtle deck to the body. I don't know when the holes were added, but I believe when the holes were added for the turtle deck they were also present on the Roadster Pickup.

I believe the same thing about the back panel. The two different styles of the back panels (embossed and smooth) have the same part number. I believe the very early Roadsters and Roadster Pickups had a smooth back panel and the later ones were embossed. I have no idea when the change took place. There is also picture evidence of early Roadsters with smooth panels behind the turtle deck.

You didn't ask but I also believe the early Roadsters and Roadster Pickups had a floor panel under the turtle deck as shown in Dan's pictures but the later ones did not. This is confusing to me because there is no room for the bolts that hold the wood in the bed to go between the floor panel and the bottom of the bed. I have test fit mine with the floor panel in place and the room is just not there. On the later turtle decks the floor panels were made to the bottom of the turtle deck its self but were not present on the Pickup. Many pictures of from the factory Roadster pickups show no floor panel under the bed.

Having said all of this I am building my truck with no holes showing in the back of the roadster body and a smooth back panel. I am also trying to install the bed with a floor panel under the bed. Right or wrong I really have no idea. I wish someone would prove or disprove me.

The thing I still have not settled in my mind is what holds the battery cover up in the Roadster Pickup bed with no floor panel under it?

[Original Smith]

I saw no mention to the year you are planning to buy. They made pickups in 1925 too!

[DanTreace]

Richard is doing a '26, noted in the first line of the post.

As for the metal deck pan, Richard, I recall on my Nov. 3, 1925 mfg. date (engine 12,635,xxx) the bed wood little carriage bolts were very short length, and since the metal pickup bed rides on channel below the curved lower sides that the bed boards fit to, there wasn't any contact of the square toothed washers or the small square nuts holding those bolts that go through the metal bed strips.

Don't have any photos of the underside, but this is the upper as removing the old wood boards.

Scan0453.JPG (56.05 KiB) Viewed 5741 times

As for the mounting holes in the rear of the runabout body, you may be correct. This is the photo of painting a turtle deck of the Improved Car, on the line at the Indianapolis assembly plant. Enlarged the detail at the body and there sure seems to me no mounting holes. This factory photo below is dated Nov 24, 1925. So that should be true, early runabouts were missing the holes, and that was later added as design change, just like many other changes during the Improved Car production. Lots of minor differences in construction. Same with the pickup bed, the early bed, front state pocket up at the body, later beds, front stake moved back.

[70boss2wv]

AI'm glad to see that this subject that has some interest.
I'm not sure if more pics will help, or hurt, but I think it would be cool to see what's out there.
No one commented on the rear leaf count. Any thoughts on that?

Hap,
Thanks, I will get that book.

Richard:
Your are correct, I meant to ask about the metal deck pan under the bed, as well. Getting old is not for wimps.

[DanTreace]

Leonard

Original Nov. 1925 mfg. Improved pickup, has all the features of factory to me, note the stance.

Can confirm this one did have the nine leaf rear spring, as used on sedans, needed for the anticipated loads the Ford could haul

26 pickup before.JPG (111.38 KiB) Viewed 5670 times

[David Mcbride]

when i figure how to post using my I Phone i will post pics of my 3 1926 rdpu s. one is a smooth back the other 2 have the embossed. The smooth back came out of colorado it was represented as a gathering of parts by no means an original. therefore the smooth back by no means it came from the factory that way. one of the other I bought at chickesha with documentation including pictures when originaly bought. the pictures are an example on a farm ordering a roadster and a pickup bed at the same time. The bed must have been put shortly after arrival per the pictures. The turtle deck condition on a scale of 1 to 10 was a 10. I did not buy the turtle deck at $2500. Gator Gould bought it for a customer. This truck is what it is from the factory. Currently it is with ross lillieker being refreshed. I will call ross tomorrow and ask him to count the leafs. the other rdpu also came out of colorada appears to have been a pickup from early on how early I do not know. I counted the leafs and they are 9. I have not unbolted the bed to get a close up look at the back of the body. The filler is what stands out to me on this one a picture would explain what struggle to do. On the facial it is molded to conform with the truck bed. My filler on the gathering of parts is totally different i assume it to be a repop.Enough now I will get on trying to learn how to post pics with an I Phone. If any body has pics of thr filler I would love to see. thanks. IN closing Clair carleson and I will be driving our rdpu from Jackson Hole to Billings on the July Tour.

[Mark Osterman]

Here is my ‘23 runabout with an original “slide-on” pickup box and side mount spare. Also the same car with the turtle deck and rear spare mount. The holes were pretty close but not exactly.

[Original Smith]

I rolled under my '25 this afternoon. The four slats in the factory roadster deck support most of the trap door. There are two front to back slats that keep all the left to right slats in place, and they support the trap door on the left and right. Keep in mind this is for a 1925. I hope this is the same for a 1926. But don't know. The trap door is the only part that is the same other than the tailgate.

[DanTreace]

My filler on the gathering of parts is totally different i assume it to be a repop.Enough now I will get on trying to learn how to post pics with an I Phone. If any body has pics of thr filler I would love to see. thanks. IN closing Clair carleson and I will be driving our rdpu from Jackson Hole to Billings on the July Tour.

Photo showing later '26 beds with filler plates. The top bed is molested on the kick out for the battery lid (trap door), likely was used as a trailer. Both show most of the filler panels, these panels are riveted to the bed, so they are usually there, on these later '26 beds, or the remains of metal under the rivet heads if the plates are missing. Note both beds have the front stake pocket back about 7"