MTFCA Forum

I was told this was for the early generator equipped cars. Can anyone confirm this? If so, what years would it be used on?

I refurbish, adjust and test later Ford cutouts up through 1938, but am not familiar with early model T applications.
Thanks,
Steve

Yes it is. I have converted one of these to a diode and internally it’s just like a Model T.
I cannot remember if it was neg or positive ground.

Brent Mize wrote: ↑

Fri May 19, 2023 3:20 pm

Yes it is. I have converted one of these to a diode and internally it’s just like a Model T.
I cannot remember if it was neg or positive ground.

Thank you Brent. What years would it be used for?
I checked it with my test rig and it works properly. But its needs cleaning and adjustment as most do.
Thanks,
Steve

I have to say no, but am open to a better education.
The early versions I have seen & own are a more squared box with a large, ornate raised stamp script. Another feature is a spare upper point slid in/attached to the base.
My first thought is this is an after market replacement. No visible script is a big clue, but I could be wrong.
Maybe this is an even earlier version than I am aware of.

I'm all ears to learn. I know the model A and early V8 era cutouts well. But this is new ground for me. I don't have any model T ear references, but assume they are documented somewhere. I appreciate everyone's input.

Steve

I'm agreeing with John, my earlier is a square corner box.

Looks very similar to the picture of one of the first 1919 model year installed generators in Bruce McCalley's book

I'm certainly not going to say that it isn't from 1919-1927 years, but my first thought was 1933-34 Ford V8. When Ford started offering an AM radio in 1933-34, as optional equipment, they used a regulator with radio equipped cars that wasn't round. I used to have a 34 four door sedan that had a center control AM radio that had a similar cutout.

ModelTWoods wrote: ↑

Fri May 19, 2023 5:54 pm

I'm certainly not going to say that it isn't from 1919-1927 years, but my first thought was 1933-34 Ford V8. When Ford started offering an AM radio in 1933-34, as optional equipment, they used a regulator with radio equipped cars that wasn't round. I used to have a 34 four door sedan that had a center control AM radio that had a similar cutout.

Thanks for your reply. But you are thinking of the early, 2-charge regulator that was optional on mid-1930s radio equipped cars. It is larger and oval shape.

Just for information.
Wasn’t the rectangular cutout mounted on the firewall for a time and then later moved to the generator itself? Seems like I read that somewhere but not for sure.

Maybe https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/2 ... 1346409511
By John F. Regan on Thursday, August 30, 2012 - 10:30 pm:
I once did a peek into the early cutout drawings at the archives. Lots of different looking gizmos were used by Ford early on. Lot of different makers but it did appear that the first cutouts were some already being made and in the market when Ford began providing his new electrical system. One or two of the cutouts in fact had more than just the usual mounting plus input (generator) and output (battery) connections but the extra connections were not used. In those days, many cutouts had ability to connect to the field winding directly via the light switch and things like that. The purpose being to increase the charge rate by decreasing field resistance whenever the lights were turned on. Ford didn't use any of those extra connections as far as I could tell. I didn't spend a lot of time researching the cutout since I just looked at the drawings for a short afternoon before departing for home. There were round ones, square ones, and rectangular ones too as I recall. The early cutout mounted to the firewall on the passenger side and I thought it was fastened to at least one of the bolts that held the firewall to the firewall-to-frame bracket. Not sure so don't quote me on that.

Well it seems I've waded into murky waters here - lol! Is it possible or likely that in the 1919 period, Ford used more than one type of cutout?

Just FYI, I know the many variations of the round cutouts. Here are a few that I refurbished.
I appreciate everyone's help.
Steve

If anyone is interested, here is what it looks like with the cover off. I'll clean it up, adjust the point gap, check/adjust the air gap and adjust the closure voltage. It will then be ready for many more years af reliable service.

Stephen,
At what voltage do set the contact closing, and what voltage do you expect the points to open. I used to set the closing coltage with 5 d cell batteries and a resistor.. I now use a DC power supply to set the closing voltage at 6.5 colts but I have no idea what the spec is.

Art Mirtes

Art M wrote: ↑

Sat May 20, 2023 10:28 pm

Stephen,
At what voltage do set the contact closing, and what voltage do you expect the points to open. I used to set the closing coltage with 5 d cell batteries and a resistor.. I now use a DC power supply to set the closing voltage at 6.5 colts but I have no idea what the spec is.

Art Mirtes

Art - I set them to close at 6.5 - 7.0 volts. I found this varies and drops a little as the cutout warms up. I found that range mentioned in a couple of period electrical repair manuals. I no longer have a model T, but have a model A. I have the cutout set this way on mine and it works perfectly.

A while back I made this youtube video explaining what I do with cutouts. Perhaps others will find it interesting.
Steve

https://youtu.be/rnuukBeJ6Zs

The charging voltage for a 6 volt batters is 7.2 volts. This is the correct voltage for the cutout armature to operate closing the contacts to connect the generator to the battery. Opening the cutout contacts is controlled by the reverse current in the current winding created by the engine slowing down and current starting to flow toward the generator and is not adjustable.
Here is a simplified explanation of the Model T Ford FA Starting and Lighting System charging circuit describing generator start-up, charging and cutout disconnecting the battery from the generator which occurs during normal Model T operation. .
Ron Patterson

One other interesting point about the cutouts used on the the Model T's equipped with the FA (Fred Allison) Starting and Lighting System.
If you look closely at a cutout electrical diagram you will notice there are three electrical connection. One to the battery (via the Ammeter0 another to the generator terminal bolt and another to ground. This later Ground connection was completed by mounting the cutout foot to the grounded generator case.
The earliest FA System equipped Model T's had the cutout (without the mounting foot) mounted on the wooden dash and had three screw contacts for the electrical connections. The ground connection was made to a metallic ground point near the dash.
Two photos posted above (on the right side) show the three terminal cutout and another immediately below showing it mounted to the dash although the ground wire is not visible. One photo is of Kim Dobbins 1918 Model T showing the three contact cutout.
Ron Patterson

As always, great information Ron. Thanks.
Steve

ndnchf wrote: ↑

Fri May 19, 2023 6:04 pm

ModelTWoods wrote: ↑

Fri May 19, 2023 5:54 pm

I'm certainly not going to say that it isn't from 1919-1927 years, but my first thought was 1933-34 Ford V8. When Ford started offering an AM radio in 1933-34, as optional equipment, they used a regulator with radio equipped cars that wasn't round. I used to have a 34 four door sedan that had a center control AM radio that had a similar cutout.

Thanks for your reply. But you are thinking of the early, 2-charge regulator that was optional on mid-1930s radio equipped cars. It is larger and oval shape.

Stephen, you are absolutely correct. After you replied, i remembered the 34 cutout was elongated but had more gently rounded corners than the one shown in the above posts.

ModelTWoods wrote: ↑

Sun May 21, 2023 12:16 pm

ndnchf wrote: ↑

Fri May 19, 2023 6:04 pm

ModelTWoods wrote: ↑

Fri May 19, 2023 5:54 pm

I'm certainly not going to say that it isn't from 1919-1927 years, but my first thought was 1933-34 Ford V8. When Ford started offering an AM radio in 1933-34, as optional equipment, they used a regulator with radio equipped cars that wasn't round. I used to have a 34 four door sedan that had a center control AM radio that had a similar cutout.

Thanks for your reply. But you are thinking of the early, 2-charge regulator that was optional on mid-1930s radio equipped cars. It is larger and oval shape.

Stephen, you are absolutely correct. After you replied, i remembered the 34 cutout was elongated but had more gently rounded corners than the one shown in the above posts.

I don't mean to drift off topic, but I believe this is what you are thinking of. Ford called it the "2 rate regulator". It was not entirely successful and if I recall correctly, was only used for 2 years on radio equipped cars.