Bad day in the snow

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Dollisdad
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Bad day in the snow

Post by Dollisdad » Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:12 pm

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Topic author
Dollisdad
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Re: Bad day in the snow

Post by Dollisdad » Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:13 pm

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Topic author
Dollisdad
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Re: Bad day in the snow

Post by Dollisdad » Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:15 pm

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Topic author
Dollisdad
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Re: Bad day in the snow

Post by Dollisdad » Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:17 pm

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Topic author
Dollisdad
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Re: Bad day in the snow

Post by Dollisdad » Sat Jun 03, 2023 11:18 pm

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Wayne Sheldon
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Re: Bad day in the snow

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Sun Jun 04, 2023 12:37 am

My first quick dash through from the top to the bottom one odd detail caught my eye!
Picture number thirteen. Was something changed? Or is it from the factory that way? I have had to go back to make sure I am not seeing things. It is a 1913 body touring car with a 1914 style "fold back" windshield!
We know the 1913 style touring car body had strength issues in the rear section. The sills were not heavy enough to fully support the weight of the back of the body. After several attempts to rectify the problem, one of the earliest factory recalls on record, dealer "fixes" and so forth, Ford rushed the 1914 style body into production early installing them onto chassis at the factory by July of 1913. 1913 style bodies that had been previously ordered continued to be received by the factory and installed on new cars, with both styles being assembled onto cars for probably about two months.
During that crossover time, usually, the appropriate windshield was installed to match the year/style of the body. However, apparently not always? Early era photos showing 1913 bodies with 1914 windshields or 1914 style bodies with 1913 windshields are rare! However, I have seen a few of them before.
Past discussions on the subject have pointed out that it is of course possible that a windshield was somehow damaged and changed after it left the factory? Maybe? Or that automobiles were often delivered to dealers in "partial knockdown form" and the dealers had to perform final assembly. It could be possible that a dealer mixed up the windshields? Maybe?
Things were moving really fast at the factories in those days. It is very likely that some such cars did leave the factory with the wrong year windshield.

We likely will never know the exact story behind this particular car. But it is a noteworthy oddity.


Terry_007
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Re: Bad day in the snow

Post by Terry_007 » Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:36 am

That 13/14 looks pretty well used. My guess is the windshield is a later replacement, probably salvaged from a junk yard long after the car was produced. With the top assembly completely missing, its obvious it's not received the best of care. The owner probably had no concern for fixing it with correct parts.

Last photo is a great shot of a fairly new 2-lever.
Terry


Rich P. Bingham
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Re: Bad day in the snow

Post by Rich P. Bingham » Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:30 am

Regarding photo #13, Wayne, you didn't mention the round rear fender. Any thoughts ?
Get a horse !

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DanTreace
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Re: Bad day in the snow

Post by DanTreace » Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:42 am

Terry_007 wrote:
Sun Jun 04, 2023 8:36 am
Last photo is a great shot of a fairly new 2-lever.
Terry
Appears to be a rather early '09 with covered running board with the brass trim too. Zooming in can see the third pedal shaft, driver's foot on that brake pedal so it won't roll.... so don't think it is really early car.


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The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


Norman Kling
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Re: Bad day in the snow

Post by Norman Kling » Sun Jun 04, 2023 11:12 am

Number 18. Not a good place to play! Maybe they ran over him? I remember my Uncle had a Pontiac, made sometime around 1940, I liked to get under the fender next to the wheel. I was warned about that. I did a few dumb things as a boy. I also went with another uncle who was target shooting with a rifle and I ran out in front of him. I was told that the bullet could go right through me, to stay behind him!
I have outlived both of them. They both smoked.
Norm


Junk poor
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Re: Bad day in the snow

Post by Junk poor » Sun Jun 04, 2023 10:15 pm

Oh that poor town car. I wonder if the chauffeur got a good reference at his next job.


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Re: Bad day in the snow

Post by nsbrassnut » Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:02 pm

I found Wayne's comment on the use of '14 style windshields on '13 style bodies interesting.

Especially when working on my '13 Canadian touring project. The body is a late model year version with the braces from the factory, and a "14 style windshield. The car arrived apart and messed up, but it interesting to hear that the windshield could be a factory matched part.

At least that will be my story from now on. ;)

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George House
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Re: Bad day in the snow

Post by George House » Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:28 pm

So it was Street Cars that made town cars so rare 🤔 I always wondered about that.

And we see ‘15 (or late ‘14) long bill front fenders on that ‘13 body…. How’r we supposed to restore them right, when they didn’t assemble them right ?
I don’t know why I turned out this way. My parents were decent people 🤪


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Re: Bad day in the snow

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Wed Jun 07, 2023 10:01 pm

While there are era photos that to me are more convincing of the windshields and bodies being occasionally mixed up, whether by the factory or dealers? For this particular car, I suspect that the windshield was changed at some point later. I base this on a couple of observations. One, the blackness of the windshield frame compared to everything else seems to indicate that it might have been changed. That of course is nothing definite, because the painting of the windshield frame was done better than was much of the car, and the paint may have lasted longer.

The other detail, as pointed out by George H is the bills on the front fenders. The late 1914s and 1915/'16s weren't the only model Ts with "bills" on the front fenders. Such bills came and went several times during the early brass years of the model T. Most notably, 1912 had bills for most of its model year. I may sound like a broken record, however Ford's crossover time for many changes was more than most people realize. As George also said "How’r we supposed to restore them right, when they didn’t assemble them right ?" Thank you George H, I love that comment!
Between the late 1912s, and the early 1913s, at least four variations of front fenders were used! Variations included the anti-rattle bead across the middle of the back of the fender may or might not be there. The bead around the inside skirt may or might not be there. 1912s generally have the front bill, and some early 1913s also had the bills.
I have seen 1912 fenders with either, neither, or both of those beads. I am not sure when all the front fenders were having both beads, but think sometime during 1913. Except for the very early ones, most 1913s did not have front bills. I have seen a few front fenders (assumed original?) one or the other beads not there, and also 1913's no bill.

So, this particular 1913 style bodied touring car has a fender bill that basically only early 1913s had, and a 1914 windshield that only very late 1913 style touring cars had?
It is possible, maybe, that the factory or more likely one of the regional assembly plants, might have sent a car out with that combination? However, probably much more likely that one or both of those two things were changed later due to a minor accident or other damage.

When I have some uninterrupted time later? I need to look through some of the couple hundred 1913 T photos I have on my computer.

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