help figuring out what this key number is

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NY John T
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help figuring out what this key number is

Post by NY John T » Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:08 pm

Hi all,
I am trying to figure out what this number is stamped on the ignition switch. What do you all think?
Thanks,
John
ignition number.jpg


Bill Anziani
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Re: help figuring out what this key number is

Post by Bill Anziani » Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:11 pm

Looks like number 64


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Re: help figuring out what this key number is

Post by mtntee20 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:20 pm

+1 for Bill's #64. BUT, I would suggest you try any and all Ford keys you have access to. I found my ignition switches will work with MORE than ONE key. Maybe, take your switch to a swap meet, club meeting, car show and ask if the people will try their key in your switch. I'll bet, there are more than just one numbered key that will work.

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Re: help figuring out what this key number is

Post by dobro1956 » Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:28 pm

Looks like 64


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Re: help figuring out what this key number is

Post by NY John T » Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:56 pm

I looked very carefully at the switch and took pix from different angles/lighting. I got a repro #64 from the vendors and it doesn't turn. I wonder if a. the key is wrong; b. there is some problem with the tumbler.
John


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Re: help figuring out what this key number is

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Thu Jun 08, 2023 2:13 pm

Well, it's not a 54 or a 74, so it's got to be a 64. Have you tried your key by slipping it in at slightly different depths? Two things can happen. 1. The lock cylinder is made of pot metal and can grow in length. When it does, it's as if the key is now too short and is not going in deep enough. Often, the solution is to slightly file back the shoulders of the key, at the top of the shank, to allow it to go deeper. 2. There can be small bits of the cylinder material that have broken away, at the top & bottom of the key slot. Your cylinder looks like that has happened. This can allow the key to slide in too far. Hold the key back just a bit and try again.

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Re: help figuring out what this key number is

Post by CudaMan » Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:40 pm

I loaded the picture into my photo editor and cranked he contrast way up. I agree, 64. :)
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ignition number.jpg
Mark Strange
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1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)


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Re: help figuring out what this key number is

Post by NY John T » Thu Jun 08, 2023 3:46 pm

Thank you folks. I will try the suggestions. If necessary, I'll take the tumbler out and see what's going on. Maybe one of the spring posts that rise in the tumbler is missing or locked/blocking.
Glad it's a # 64.
Thanks,
John


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Re: help figuring out what this key number is

Post by Norman Kling » Thu Jun 08, 2023 4:32 pm

Before you take it apart, try a few other 64 keys. I have found that one repro key was not ground exactly right and another key of the same number worked fine. So the problem could be the key and not the lock. By the way, that lock does not have the regular tumlers modern locks have. It is kind of a disc which is ground to fit the slots in the key. So it could even be in need of a good cleaning. If you use graphite to loosen it up, be sure not to get any on the electrical contacts because graphite is an electrical conductor.
Norm


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Re: help figuring out what this key number is

Post by Jacob Mangold » Thu Jun 08, 2023 4:37 pm

When I first got my car, I ordered a repro key from Snyders and it did not turn in my key way. I took the back of the ignition off and used graphite and pushed the key in and out a couple times and then blew the keyway out with compressed air. Rinse and repeat until you are able to get the key to turn.

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Re: help figuring out what this key number is

Post by Ed Fuller » Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:21 pm

I agree with Jerry V. Your pot metal cylinder is missing a couple small chunks above and below the key slot. Try pulling the key out slightly. It may be going in to far.

Far to many times the reproduction keys are incorrectly blamed for not working when the 100 year old, worn out, swelled, and gummed up pot metal lock cylinder is usually the problem.


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Re: help figuring out what this key number is

Post by NY John T » Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:30 pm

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!
Thank you all for your suggestions. I took the pin back off, squirted graphite liquid in and kept trying. The problem is that the key is going in too far. When I pulled it out ever so slightly, the key turned smoothly from BAT to MAG.
I must say that this older switch is much smoother and more solid than any of the repro ignition and keys.
Thanks folks. You definitely made my day!!
John

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Re: help figuring out what this key number is

Post by DanTreace » Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:48 pm

John


Good of that fix, so your key can operate the switch. As others noted, the pot-metal tumbler gets very worn out over the years, esp. with hard snapping of the switch, rapid key placement and removal, and even hanging a wad of other keys on a chain that dangles from an inserted key.

The design is made to give protection to the soft metal tumbler, as that tumbler has two corresponding recesses in the face.

Note the Model T key has mating notches that engage the tumbler and rests on the recesses, that helps to prevent too deep key placement that can lock the innards up. Plus it gives the proper leverage for the key to turn the switch to BAT or MAG.

Taking care to insert the key gently into an old switch tumbler will help preserve it.
Attachments
Key notches and recesses in switch.jpg
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
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Re: help figuring out what this key number is

Post by NY John T » Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:17 am

Thank you all!!!
I feel that there is a family here (even though you all are so far away) that cares about one another. I, and many others, really appreciate that!
There is a bit of missing pot metal at the bottom and top of the key slot as Dan's photo shows. Thanks Dan.
Question: would anybody try to fix that by putting a tiny bit of epoxy there? It would be like brain surgery precision. I'd like to hear if anybody has attempted it. I'm not sure I would, but I might if it could be done.
Or.... maybe I'll just leave it alone and be cautious about inserting the key. I'm not actually using this switch as I have 2 Improved cars, but I may in the future.
Thanks all,
John


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Re: help figuring out what this key number is

Post by NY John T » Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:19 am

By the way...
Dan's photo has 4 rivets holding the switch on. Mine has only 2. Is this an early/late thing? Which would be which?
John

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Re: help figuring out what this key number is

Post by DanTreace » Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:45 am

NY John T wrote:
Fri Jun 09, 2023 9:19 am
By the way...
Mine has only 2. Is this an early/late thing? Which would be which?
John


The multiple rivet switch plates are early, there are many variations, esp. the early closed cars in 1919 that were first to have electric start, these used a unique switch without a panel and the ammeter was also separate up to about March of 1919. The open cars followed. Switches then came combined on a rectangular steel panel with the ammeter, and were made by several companies early on. Ammeter varied too in design, the early ones are very distinct. Then Ford kinda settled on a particular design, that is the common 2-rivet plate after about the 1920 model year, perhaps 1921.

Switch types.jpeg
Switch types.jpeg (37.23 KiB) Viewed 728 times
Switch types 2.jpeg
Switch types 2.jpeg (67.31 KiB) Viewed 728 times
Early 4-rivet plate.


IMG_3202 (700x413).jpg


Early 2-rivet with Bat and Mag on the center collar of the large cast nickel plated switch handle.


IMG_1017 (500x375).jpg
IMG_1017 (500x375).jpg (85.91 KiB) Viewed 728 times
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Re: help figuring out what this key number is

Post by Moxie26 » Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:28 pm

NY John T ..... Your 1926 year switch assembly was always mounted with two rivets on either a painted or plated mounting plate, that is oval sized instead of the earlier rectangular sized plate..... Except on the 26-27 TT TRUCK that still used the earlier rectangular plate mount assembly.

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Re: help figuring out what this key number is

Post by CudaMan » Fri Jun 09, 2023 3:07 pm

I wonder if it would be possible to crimp or solder a couple of thin spacers on the shoulders of the key to keep it from going in too far. Even if you're careful not to insert it too far yourself, it might vibrate in too deep during running / driving.
Mark Strange
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Re: help figuring out what this key number is

Post by TRDxB2 » Sat Jun 10, 2023 1:40 am

NY John T wrote:
Thu Jun 08, 2023 5:30 pm
PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!
Thank you all for your suggestions. I took the pin back off, squirted graphite liquid in and kept trying. The problem is that the key is going in too far. When I pulled it out ever so slightly, the key turned smoothly from BAT to MAG.
I must say that this older switch is much smoother and more solid than any of the repro ignition and keys.
Thanks folks. You definitely made my day!!
John
Should should never use graphite in a an electrical environment. It is conductive. From your solution its likely the internal wafers were stuck and wouldn't slide up & down to release the lock.. WD40 is the preferred solvent
IMG_2340.JPG
IMG_2340.JPG (27.84 KiB) Viewed 599 times
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Not knowing how much you squirted... But consider that the switch if mounted to a metal dash it is grounded and the internal contacts could eventually cause a carbon tact and poof. I'd clean it out, rinse with WD40
IMG_2406.JPG
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